The downfall of Starbase

Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
15
#1
Steam => Starbase description:
Starbase is a hybrid voxel/vertex-based space MMO with a fully destructible and infinitely expanding universe, with a focus on building and designing spaceships and stations, exploration, resource gathering, crafting, trading, and combat.
===Building and designing spaceships and stations===
Building and designing spaceships in starbase
, has an initial learning curve, however once you figure out how ships in starbase work. you will soon find out how limited you are in actually designing your ship.

There are some hard limits, however this isn't what I am talking about, designing any ship to be decent / good looking means your ship will be extremely slow. everything in the game relies on having high speed. This in turn requires you to be forced to spam thruster walls as its the only viable solution in game, and no other methods are possible.

this is an underlying issue in general, all device are static not dynamic, which means that you are required to spam the same device over and over.

building and designing stations / lots in starbase, has been in a terrible state since the beginning of CA, in general it never worked. there is no incentive to build one, as there is no content with them. We can't design them ourselves we can only use specific modules, meaning its extremely limited.

Looking forward to upcoming features, we are getting factories, gas extractors and 3d printers. however If I look more in-depth to the upcoming features, I honestly don't see much interesting gameplay, it mainly comes down to onces you have build it, wait x hours and collect it, its sounds more like a choir then interesting and interactive gameplay.

===Exploration===
Exploration in starbase, in general there is the belt, some Dev stations and some moons. thats it, you got a 5km render distance around you, but there isn't much to explore. Even player stations only render around 2km distance from you, so in general unless you like sitting afk in a ship for IRL days on end to go to a moon, there is nothing.

===Resource gathering===
Resource gathering in starbase, mining at first seems extremely interesting, however the moment you realise any interesting device requires rare resources you are in for some very un-fun gameplay.

there are 4 rare resources in the current gamestate. 3/4th of them are findable in larger quantities arround 250-500km out from origin, however the only way to find them is to go to each asteroid around you and hope its one of the rare resources. basically RNG, there is no scanner or ore detector to help you find the ore you seek.

now the rarest ore is called Xhalium, the ore is basically extremely boring to find, it can take a person days to find a single roid. its mainly found after 750km from origin. at this points it can take several days before a roid is found and its an extremely boring and mundane task.

this resource is requires for all ship weaponry except for one. meaning to do any form of PvP you are required to do this mundane task, there have only been a handfull of people actually obtained this resource in-game. however we are lucky upcoming economy isn't implemented yet and we can purchase the devices without requiring the materials for them.

===Crafting===
Crafting is a thing in starbase?!?

===Trading===
Trading in starbase, honestly trading hasn't really been a thing in starbase. You normally require all resources yourself, so why would you even sell them? In general there are no real incentives to trade your resources, most people just hold onto them, because at some point you will need them, and making credits isn't hard in general. You can sell any or all ore to the station for instant transaction. best possible way to earn fast credits is mine entire asteroids and sell everything to the station.

===Combat===
Combat in starbase, honestly there is none, we got combat events using free ships. but organically there is no combat, in general the game lacks really hard in terms of any PvP.

There are many core issues with PvP in general;
- there are no catch up mechanics, meaning any ship going near max speed is going to be safe. your best defense is having a fast ship, and your best offensive is having a fast ship. in general even if we had the ability to find others, it is still a core issue.
- we have no way to find others, even once we get rad detection, whats the point? inexperienced players (noobs) will have non max speed ships and thus will be destroyed. the people having max speed ships are non possible to catch up to, so in general there is no real way to do anything.
- weapon bug, all weapons are limited to 1km range, meaning even if you have a 5km render distance you can't do anything untill you catch up to you target in order to damage their thrusters and slow them down.
- coming back to the design issue, because all ships have an entire wall of thrusters it means there aren't any effective ways of slowing or disabling the ship, the best way is hitting their generator and making sure their entire ship explodes.
- Another issue is, the O menu, the O menu shows all players in your render distance, combined with their name and faction. In general this means someone keeping track of their O menu can never be sneaked upon. there is no counter play to this, so in general if they check their O menu and respond to your presence, just abort its going to be a waste of time.

PvP in general is completely dependend on your target not being experienced or slacking. Their ship is required to not be max speed, and the person is supposed to not check their surrounding using the O menu or defensive Rad detection.

In general Time of flight has been reduced to arround 1 to 2 hours on avarage for ships. however as there are no catch up mechanics, it means you have a max time of 30 min to 1 hour to fight and kill your target, and to be able to fly back.

in general i have designed my ships to be atleast 6 hours +, to my experience this is not enough and means you will have to resupply very often.

===Gamestate===
they have made it a extremely clear they do not want this game to have the following:
- they don't want to game to be KoS everywhere.
- they you don't want grieving to be a thing.
- you don't want to have insiding / espionage.

in order to accomplish this they have resorted to having players obey by written rules and implemented safeguards into the game.

However this basically limits your gameplay to either abuse these safeguards or be hunted down by more experienced players. They want players to be able to have no risk in order to PvP, however because of the safeguards in place to ensure this gameplay loop. in means PvP loses any meaning, there is no risk involved as you can safeguard all your belongings.

In general this will turn out to grieving, as PvP now has little to no meaning its means I will just PvP anything I can. which results into grieving, as they only people being vurnable in general will be the inexperienced players (noobs).

forcing them to either play this exact same gameplay in order to ensure complete safety.

===multi crew===
multi crew in starbase, there is no multi crew in starbase, starbase has shown its currently not possible at all, in general the game will be played using a ship for each person.

After almost a year of Closed Alpha we finally have to ability to stay on another person their ship, before we would almost always get yeeted.

However looking at upcoming updates the only thing being added are Tri-pods, however I do not consider this to be multi crew. it means your players will be sitting afk doing nothing on your ship untill there is something to shoot, as previously stated if you ship is being max speed I doubt you will see any pvp in general.

in general this all comes down to engine issues with hosting issues. the person hosting the ship can do anything with the ship, however the people whom aren't the host in general can't do anything.

====================================================================

This is the end of my post,

I am very sad to say, I do not expect this game to succeed while its continueing this direction, its main focus is non-pvp and safeguarding gameplay from any PvP interaction. I personally have lost trust in their ability to make the game towards a fun and enjoyable state, I do truely hope they regain my trust.

Overall the game has only gotton worse over the state of Closed Alpha, this has been adressed by the community several times. however they keep going with their same direction, which to me feels has changed around November / December.

Mining has become less fun, PvP has become less fun, Space ship design has become less fun.

I personally have spend over 2.1k hours into the game, with the main focus of testing their features and providing the best possible reports, I have found many exploits and bugs which thanks to my help got fixed relatively quickly. as much as it pains me I will not be buying the game and will maybe check back on the game in 1-2 years time. I do really hope the game survives for this time and doesn't end up having no playerbase.

The game is not Ready for an EA release nor are the upcoming features going to "fix most of our issues" as stated by the developers.

===================================================================
It has proved that the only way to force them to take action is by extensively over abusing a game mechanic. they even had a fix ready for a bug in the game, however this wasn't shipped to alpha build for some unknown reason. so I was abusing this game mechanic in order to despawn ships in a dev station. which forced them to actuallu ship the fix for that bug in the upcoming patch. they don't seem to understand what can be abused and only take action when absolutely neccesary. this saddens me deeply.
 
Last edited:

quantin

Well-known endo
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
83
#2
===Gamestate===
they have made it a extremely clear they do not want this game to have the following:
- they don't want to game to be KoS everywhere.
- they you don't want grieving to be a thing.
- you don't want to have insiding / espionage.
There's not intersting and there's no mouse control.So,why we play this game without fight with enemy?Battle is going to boring and I think devs need your suggests
 

DerPfandadler

Learned-to-sprint endo
Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Messages
21
#5
Technically I would agree with a couple of things in there. Especially device spam.

Tho with capitals and stations sieges PvP would be much more like the events we have rn. All players are limited to a relatively small area to have any affect on the battle, everyone knows when and where it is and there are clear sides(everything coming from the cap -> attackers. Everything coming from the station or caps by it -> defenders).
PvP is more drifting towards this grand scale and away from following single players in the belt for hours probably for some of the same reasons you listed above. Radiation detection would probably be mainly used to find peeps with mil caps mining out in the belt so you can either jump them with your own mil caps or just try to catch some miners coming from/to the mil caps. The zone menu definitely needs a rework. Just make it have a much smaller range or something. It would be totally fine if it would just show anyone in a 500m radius or even less.
 

MoneylooJr

Learned-to-turn-off-magboots endo
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
48
#6
Eh, i don't got anything better to do right now. Sure, why not.
Steam => Starbase description:
"Starbase is a hybrid voxel/vertex-based space MMO with a fully destructible and infinitely expanding universe, with a focus on building and designing spaceships and stations, exploration, resource gathering, crafting, trading, and combat."
Yes, the game accommodates all of these things and players interested in their play styles. Of course, then, not everything is perfect (especially combat, your main complaint, which by design tends to hinder these things.) Every one of these features WILL take some losses to accommodate the others. Combat needs to be hit with safegaurds to not become overwhelming, ship and station designs need to be destructible which may turn off some people, exploration/resource gathering will be more dangerous, etc. When your game is a jack of all trades, of course it will be a master of none.
Also, starbase has NEVER actually been "fully destructible." The Origin SZ has always been there. When they say "fully destructible," I'm pretty sure they're talking about the voxel destruction system applied to the universe, not that literally everything can be destroyed. Even if that was the case, then Eos and the moons are also an issue. Technically, you can't destroy your tools either. 0/10 false advertising, my lawyers WILL hear of this
===Building and designing spaceships and stations===
Spaceships can definitely be good looking and functional. Plenty of designers have pulled this off. Thruster walls are a problem the devs have acknowledged (plasma thrusters) and will likely be fixed when there aren't more important issues than slightly uglier spaceships.
Lots are being replaced completely by factory areas.
===Exploration===
Exploration is meant to be fueled by players building, destroying, and interacting. This has been made abundantly clear since day 1. If thats a big turn-off for you... how did you even end up here?
Distance is to be fixed by warp gates and later capital ships.
The roadmap literally mentions improved exploration on one of the top panels. This is something they will acknowledge. The universe is so barren right now because it's a CA game and they're focusing on more important things before fleshing out the galaxy. Why bother making all the moons unique, distinct, and full of life and character when we still can't even build on them? Or even build the things we're supposed to use to even get to them?
===Resource gathering===
Why are you complaining about resource gathering in an unfinished belt in a solar system planned to be expanded with new resource areas before an entirely separate resource gathering system has been added?
===Crafting===

Crafting is a thing in starbase?!?
"Starbase is a hybrid voxel/vertex-based space MMO with a fully destructible and infinitely expanding universe, with a focus on building and designing spaceships and stations, exploration, resource gathering, crafting, trading, and combat."
yeah i think so
===Trading===
The real economy hasn't even been implemented yet, chill.
===Combat===
There's no organic combat because there's hardly a playerbase and because the devs have gone out of their way to discourage it so people can test other mechanics in piece (and no kevin, blowing up vasamas and bragging about it on the forums is NOT testing.)
Rad detection hasn't been implemented, so wait for complaining about that. And if a player with a max speed ship makes you unable to pirate them, have you considered you might just be a bad pirate? You have long-range GUNS, stored minerals SLOW DOWN ships (so keeping max speed with a full haul sounds borderline impossible,) and people need to STOP MOVING in order to mine. Plenty of opportunity there.
===Gamestate===
I like how you describe all the problems with organic pvp immediately after stating there has been no real organic pvp. I agree some of the safeguards are stupid, but can you at least wait before calling the entire system doomed?
===multi crew===
Multi crew hasn't cropped up much because of a mix of small player count, limited ship sizes, and a lack of activites requring or incentivizing multi-crewed ships. All of these will change at and post EA launch.
And as for tripods... "sitting around doing nothing wait for something to shoot." First, if your gunners are constantly sitting around manning the seats, you're doing something wrong. That's a waste of manpower. Secondly... that's just a gunner's job. That is, quite literally, what a gunner does. Enemy shows up, gunners go sit in a seat manning a weapon to shoot the enemy. It doesn't matter if its a tripod, or a turret, or whatever.
And thirdly... this isn't even right. The PvP tournaments have shown multi-crew ships. The first tournament had plenty of large multi-crew ships. So while it hasn't cropped up much organically, it is definitely very possible and quite effective.
===================================================================
Most of your complaints are, frankly, kinda ridiculous, either due to being contradictory or simply because they are about systems which are still only now being finished up and missing various mechanics MEANT to fix them, tie them together, or otherwise complete them and respond to prior criticisms. You also repeatedly claim that you can only get by by abusing mechanics when you are about the only person I have ever seen abuse any of them so far (with the exception of Collective that one time they did the floor plate thing, that wasn't good.) Have you considered the devs only respond to these problems when you do something not because they ignore them and you're pointing them out, but because you're the only one that ever pulls this and force their hand by being the problem?
No, seriously. Remember when stations were first launched and you actively raided Collective's? Broke in, blew up and stole their valuable ship parts, bragged about it on the forums under the guise it was "testing." No one else ever did anything like that. And the dev's response, (which was a "don't do that, we're testing other stuff now") made it clear they didn't even have station SZs done anyway. They launched stations without them because they wanted to give the playerbase as much time to build and test them as possible, and, presumably, had good faith people could respect that stations were MEANT to have SZs and not do anything for that next week. So for such a major problem with the game, you are the only example of it I can think of.
And even then, the devs have been listening to complaints and concerns with upcoming criticisms. Lauri has been on the discord answering questions about capital ships every day since they were revealed, and it's already been made clear the systems shown are a WIP and may change, AND that they can't even fully discuss all of the features linked to caps because they need to introduce the station siege system first. We've got multiple channels on the discord for suggestions and feedback, plus the forums here which are effectively dedicated to it, and (and here's the big one) there is the video game you have spent over 2000 hours playing. We are ONLY here so we can test and hand out feedback and criticism to the devs. Things are unfinished, broken, and bland because they are SUPPOSED TO BE. We are playing an unfinished game early, under the agreement the devs will hand us the unfinished, broken, and/or bland bits so we can find what makes them feel unfinished, broken, or bland and tell them so they can fix it. This game is not finished. This game is not meant to be perfect. Its not even in early access yet. Don't run around posting doom and gloom about the fate of a game that, technically speaking, has not even been released yet.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
 

MoneylooJr

Learned-to-turn-off-magboots endo
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
48
#8
Friend, you speak logic....but there is a problem...

Smooth brains cannot read so much logic in such tight spaces, you gotta be considerate, while breaking it down ELI5 style with nice big spaces so their brains and eyes can rest and cool off in between the facts.
You're right.

TLDR;

Game ain't finished, you ain't paid, you signed up knowing it ain't finished, wait for this stuff to actually be implemented before saying it all sucks.

Thank you for coming to my TLDR talk.
 

Cavilier210

Master endo
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Messages
287
#9
I applaud you Moneyloo. That was an epic and logical retort to Quevin's silliness.

The game isn't ready. This is abundantly clear. We all know it. Its not a secret. Part of that is that its not even supposed to be. I'm concerned, but doom abd gloom is overboard. Which to be fair is a typically Quevin approach to all things.

These devs have done amazing things and have many more on the horizon. They've done things I haven't seen in other games I've played on a scale that no one thought was even possible. Criticism is due, sure. But we are all on the same team right now with the devs of making a better, more complete and fun game we can bring all our friends too and have a treat time.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
16
#10
I might be a boring guy that does not get out much, but this broken, unfinished game held my attention last night. I spent over four hours watching another player design, and redesign a ship and met a few nice people along the way. The funny part is, it held my attention and I am not even playing it, just watching. I am so glade I spent my hard earned $$$ on this game.
 

shado20

Well-known endo
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
51
#11
wow lets all attack this post. what most of you are missing in Quevin's post is yes things are broken, yes this is still alpha, but the devs has had time to work on simple fix solutions to bigger core problem but refuse to do so and keep marching on. hell with the addition of indestructible capital civilian ships, we mite as well take the guns out of game and load them with confetti, snowball, and paintball launchers.
 

Kenetor

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
199
#12
wow lets all attack this post. what most of you are missing in Quevin's post is yes things are broken, yes this is still alpha, but the devs has had time to work on simple fix solutions to bigger core problem but refuse to do so and keep marching on. hell with the addition of indestructible capital civilian ships, we mite as well take the guns out of game and load them with confetti, snowball, and paintball launchers.
yet the devs have stated constantly the CA is a test bed and proof of concept, they avoid short cuts and "quick fixes" to provide proper solutions, yes these take longer but it means they don't have to undo quick fixes later which will cost even more dev time.
CA is not supposed to be a working "game" its there to test/refine systems and parts they need to have working for later
 

shado20

Well-known endo
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
51
#13
yet the devs have stated constantly the CA is a test bed and proof of concept, they avoid short cuts and "quick fixes" to provide proper solutions, yes these take longer but it means they don't have to undo quick fixes later which will cost even more dev time.
CA is not supposed to be a working "game" its there to test/refine systems and parts they need to have working for later
i do enjoy the constant reworking of original thought. you twist this narrative and its hard to untangle.

not talking about a "quick fixes" to bugs, talking about quick fix to concepts that impacts game dynamics and future game play. please reread the Quevin's post with a look at what he is saying truly. he has access, he has found many bugs, he is fighting for a greater gameplay of the game. a game many of us would like to see stay a great game after launch and 10 years from now.
 

Cavilier210

Master endo
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Messages
287
#14
I believe myself, Kenetor, and Moneyloo all have access and are all trying to better the game. Quevin has a bad reputation, justly deserved many would say, that harms any point he makes. However our points are that he's embellishing and doomsaying with no basis for it. It's alpha. You want to doomsay? Do it when the devs actually screw up. Not when they're in the middle of a process that takes time.
 

MoneylooJr

Learned-to-turn-off-magboots endo
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
48
#15
i do enjoy the constant reworking of original thought. you twist this narrative and its hard to untangle.

not talking about a "quick fixes" to bugs, talking about quick fix to concepts that impacts game dynamics and future game play. please reread the Quevin's post with a look at what he is saying truly. he has access, he has found many bugs, he is fighting for a greater gameplay of the game. a game many of us would like to see stay a great game after launch and 10 years from now.
So a "simple fix solution" wouldn't count as a "quick fix?" What's the difference between those two, then? Can a fix be needlessly complicated AND quick at the same time?

And if you want to talk about twisting things, how about your complete twisting of what a "closed alpha" is? An alpha phase of game design is the part where core features, systems, and mechanics are introduced. The reason we've seen few bug fixes is because we're in alpha, so the priority goes to adding features rather than fixing them. This can be plainly seen by looking at the dev's progress; stations added, moons added, moon cities added, next up gas refining and capital ships added, but no major fixes for most of this.

That's because polishing up features is reserved for the beta phase of game design, where all the groundwork is laid and the devs begin to fix, polish, and tie together all the mechanics. That's ALSO part of why kevin's complaints are so misplaced. We're at a point in the game's lifespan where the priority is simply to add features and receive feedback. The major bugfixing phase hasn't hit yet (presumably going to be sometime about EA launch.) Hence why its so ridiculous for the guy to be doomsaying when we haven't even finished the alpha phase yet, let alone actually started to fully apply all the feedback gotten during the alpha in the beta. Almost everything he complains about here is either unfinished or not even implemented yet!
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
2
#16
I get the idea that Quevin is yes, going quite into the doom and gloom, but he has his head in the right place. I'm personally more worried about the griefing aspect that is to come because of the Civilian Capital Ship implementation. Frozenbyte has said they have no tolerance for griefing or social engineering, but have given the tools to do so, and with an early access release, larger, more unsavoury pvp groups than people are used to seeing in the SB discord, will show up, and not care for those rules. They will seal club just because, and they will drive players away. Most who stay will probably be the hardcore peaceful players who just sit in the dev safezone, or people playing single player 1mil Km away. Overall, it would leave a lackluster form of gameplay for anyone who gets the game from then on, or for whoever stays.

And before someone gets on and says, " yeah but we have access " I do too, and I've seen the gameplay at the moment. Yes it is Alpha, but there are still no gameplay loops in a game that launches in a month and a half.
 

PopeUrban

Veteran endo
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Messages
140
#17
I get the idea that Quevin is yes, going quite into the doom and gloom, but he has his head in the right place. I'm personally more worried about the griefing aspect that is to come because of the Civilian Capital Ship implementation. Frozenbyte has said they have no tolerance for griefing or social engineering, but have given the tools to do so, and with an early access release, larger, more unsavoury pvp groups than people are used to seeing in the SB discord, will show up, and not care for those rules. They will seal club just because, and they will drive players away. Most who stay will probably be the hardcore peaceful players who just sit in the dev safezone, or people playing single player 1mil Km away. Overall, it would leave a lackluster form of gameplay for anyone who gets the game from then on, or for whoever stays.

And before someone gets on and says, " yeah but we have access " I do too, and I've seen the gameplay at the moment. Yes it is Alpha, but there are still no gameplay loops in a game that launches in a month and a half.
I really don't think completely banning griefing and social engineering is the answer. It is a never ending battle and really limits and makes confusing PvP interaction when the rules are set up in such a way you can't reliably code them in to the game logic. The game is already built to limit FBs server upkeep costs so why not simply launch "nice" and "naughty" clusters.

Let people who want to live in a system of greed and deception do so. Plenty of people actually want to do that. I'm happy to play the game by the rules given but if I had an option I'd play on a "naughty" server because additional freedom just makes a sandbox system more dynamic and engaging. Lots of people want to pirate, want to gank miners, socially engineer people, have amazing stories of politcal deception and upheaval, want to get the rush of mining in such an environment, building a nempire in such an environment, etc. Its a pretty common and large section of players in the sandbox MMO space.

Attempting to keep everyone in a shared world with such strict and borderline unenforceable rules seems like its just going to make life harder for the moderators of that space, make it more likely those rules are constantly pushed to their breaking point and rules lawyered just for the lulz, and ultimately just leave money on the table and a large section of players who want to do those things unengaged. The easiest way to keep the ruthless PvP hordes from constantly violating a series of complex behavior rules is to literally give them somewhere to play where those rules don't apply. That's a win for everyone involved. Give me a place where I can live the dream of surviving in a horribly unfair space that allows me to apply every dirty trick in the book without worrying about a GM wagging the finger at me and I have no reason to engage in that behavior or even log in to the "nice" mirror universe. Moderators can just go "we have a place for that behavior, go nuts" and leave it at that, meaning the only space they have to moderate is the one populated with only people who have chosen to opt in to that kind of heavily controlled environment.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
16
#18
wow lets all attack this post. what most of you are missing in Quevin's post is yes things are broken, yes this is still alpha, but the devs has had time to work on simple fix solutions to bigger core problem but refuse to do so and keep marching on. hell with the addition of indestructible capital civilian ships, we mite as well take the guns out of game and load them with confetti, snowball, and paintball launchers.
I re-read Quevin's post a few times and I agree with your defense for him, 80%. Unless you guys are sitting in on the internal meetings about the path and changes to the game, you have no idea what they are working on or have already addressed. Keep in mind, this game IS still software, every time you fix a bug and change the code you could potentially break 10-20 other working parts. They would never finish this game if they jumped the gun and started to address every bug as it happens. You have to have a little faith that the bugs and designs flaws of the game are being heard and noted, even if you don't see instance results, that is not how projects work.
Writing code and looking forward is easy and fast, if you don't test or care about the end product. Trust that your valuable bug feed back is being heard. You can't expect to see instant results in a pre Alpha test. It is also not their intention to provide you a working game when you signed a release saying this in not a working build.
To be honest, I am very surprised they did not remove you from alpha for forcing their hand into implementing a fix. You single handily could have set back the release date by those action alone for everyone.
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
2
#19
I really don't think completely banning griefing and social engineering is the answer. It is a never ending battle and really limits and makes confusing PvP interaction when the rules are set up in such a way you can't reliably code them in to the game logic. The game is already built to limit FBs server upkeep costs so why not simply launch "nice" and "naughty" clusters.
I'd quite like something like this as well, as it means you can cater to both sides more easily, albeit be a little more pricey with running the servers. Honestly, the pirating, and threat of being pirated was something I was looking forward too, and all the other things that would come in your proposed "naughty" server. However, that's sadly not the case, and catering more towards those who want to be peaceful and protect them, which can be alright, as long as it doesn't harm the game. As it stands, there hasn't been many pvp-oriented people let into the alpha, some even outright denied (albeit somewhat good reason, e.g. Huursa), and feedback on pvp mechanics other than events has been slim to none. Looking forward, they might be hoping events will be how pvp plays out in the future, with something like Convoy Chaos being similar to a Capital Ship attacking a station. Interesting in it's own right, but limits the game a bit more, and potentially forces a fairly low flight time, disposable box of guns type play.

TLDR; Quite like the idea of "naughty" and "nice" servers, but at the moment the "nice" crowd is being catered to, while inadvertently catering to the more toxic "naughty" crowd. Also mentioned is a distaste for how future combat may play out.
 

Kenetor

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
199
#20
i do enjoy the constant reworking of original thought. you twist this narrative and its hard to untangle.

not talking about a "quick fixes" to bugs, talking about quick fix to concepts that impacts game dynamics and future game play. please reread the Quevin's post with a look at what he is saying truly. he has access, he has found many bugs, he is fighting for a greater gameplay of the game. a game many of us would like to see stay a great game after launch and 10 years from now.
I wasn't trying to twist any narrative, and I meant quick fixes to anything not just bugs.

As for everyone else saying they have had time for sorting this out, you underestimate who long things take in the game dev world as well as how interconnected a lot of these features are. don't get me wrong, its very close to release and I too have a few concerns, but being all doom and gloom isn't gonna help anything and the devs know exactly what there game currently looks and plays like, but they also know the full plan on whats coming for EA while we do not
 
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