The Problem with Capital ships...

[Shulace]

have you ever played a game that has open pvp? most don't kill players farming unless you belong to a waring faction and they are attacking the supply chain.
griefers and small solo players attack everyone for no reason. bigger factions try to protect there PvE players.

Your argument is not reliable, I played Eve for years, NO faction(no matter how large) is able to protect you from someone if they want to grief you in that game. 90% of "PvP'ers" in that game are griefers. Most "PvP" ships are built to quickly kill PvE ships and then run away unscathed. You could probably combine all the "PvP" players from all the space sims minus the arcade games like squadrons, and you still wouldn't have a fraction of the number griefers in Eve.

I primarily did PvE in Eve, since the war, I fought in a few of the major battles and killed a few supers but the tidi wore me out and I just asset safetied my super and all my assets, there is no way to PvE in null anymore that suits my tastes in profit without getting griefed/hotdropped.

That said, Starbase IS NOT EVE. Factions/alliances have little to offer or gain from Eve like numbers. In Eve it is sovereignty control and ratting/mining rights in return for defending the space. PvP and space control in this game cannot be enforced by an alliance/faction unless there are Eve like mechanics that governs space and all the systems in between that enable those interactions. Which from what I understand as of this time; there are no such mechanics/systems in Starbase. There is also the limit to how many people can be in a fleet battles that the game can take before it starts to break. ie. desync/lag/crash. Which if over 50 I will be surprised honestly.

Eve took MANY years to implement all the systems to enable that kind of gameplay, they didn't just suddenly poof alliances and faction play into existence because it is cool. Starbase needs to have a solid playerbase before anything else right now, that seems to be what the devs are focusing on with these implementations and roadmap. Playing more to the strengths of the platform they have => Shipbuilding/PvE stuffs. MMO Space Engineers with trading sort of, but better.

Systems are needed to prevent people/factions from attacking the small group/solo players in this game, like the civ cap, you can put the SZ and warp ability on the stations too for all I care. Otherwise the playerbase will remain small, why do I have to repeat myself so much for you guys to understand this.

 

[Cavilier210]

You must've played a different Eve than I did

 

[Shulace]

You must've played a different Eve than I did

Not sure what you mean by that but here is my character, Kirito Ouma[zkillboard], that I played in Eve if you have doubts.

 

[shado20]

You.. can’t? Beginning to think you watched a minute of the video. There will be a ship launch limit and other balances to keep you from carrying an indestructible fleet.

beginning to think you don't know how griefers play, they don't need or use a fleet! 1, 2, maybe 3 ships, if they launch 1 ship every 5 mints that's not a big deal. they are fighting non combat ships...

Fully destructible doesn’t mean “clown on anyone you see and they can’t do anything”. I don’t think they are doubling back on advertising, and if they are, so what? You haven’t paid anything.

fully destructible means that everything can be attacked and die. the idea is if the ship owner becomes a problem to the faction in the area, the faction can drive it out or destroy it if he refuses to get moving. you can make it hard to destroy but it cant be indestructible, this is stupid for a sandbox type game!

 

[shado20]

i played eve online for 11 years, i lived everywhere. most of my game play was in the safe deep 0.0 space. where i was able to mine in peace. i made my corporation many billions working moon mining. your not going to play that game or this game without ever losing a ship! you get hit, dust off and get another ship and fight off the attack, when its safe get a new mining rig and get back to it! its not hard.

 

[Cavilier210]

Hell, I've lost more ships to asteroids than to the FFA's lol. Damn roids come out of nowhere and boom, I lose a good part of my ship.

 

[Boukyaku]

7 friends of mine will be joining this game. 5 of us because we can fully explore and mind our own business without having to worry about people who for some reason think it's fun to annoy others, and 3 of them because they love PvP and they can have that too if they want.

This was a great announcement for me and that's why I invited them. We're all hyped now.

 

[Honvik]

Its a very hard balancing act and you dont want one to overshadow the other. It depends their ultimate goal for the game to be honest.

 

[Jasperagus]

beginning to think you don't know how griefers play, they don't need or use a fleet! 1, 2, maybe 3 ships, if they launch 1 ship every 5 mints that's not a big deal. they are fighting non combat ships...

Okay but if you had a friendly capital ship you could just run back to it.

Edit: A capital ship is a station not a ship. With this you can probably assume or hope the safe zone would be sizable enough to do mining in safety.

 

[[QS] Combustible]

beginning to think you don't know how griefers play, they don't need or use a fleet! 1, 2, maybe 3 ships, if they launch 1 ship every 5 mints that's not a big deal. they are fighting non combat ships...

This isn’t well meant for griefer play. You can only move every 12-24 hours (civ caps), you can’t go into the belt, and you have to know where you’re going already

 

[Shulace]

This is like debating with toddlers, I'm exhausted lmao.

They completely ignore the counter arguments I make and avoid them. They explain no points they make in detail and repeat the same things over and over like its law, I am convinced they don't know what they are talking about and this is a legit waste of time.

They haven't even really played fleet/alliance PvP Eve to know what they are really advocating for and why it won't work here. In case you didn't know; Eve is the only place where this kind of gameplay and scale exists and there's reasons why it has not been successful anywhere else, many of which I keep repeating.

Mining in Null eve is brain dead with intel/warning/local open. Mining in WH is the only mining where you get murdered if you're not constantly spamming Dscan. I have lived in every part of Null, I owned a titan and super caps, I have done every DeD site, the only thing I haven't done is the trig stuff, but I have done the abyssals. I have been blown up countless times and I have killed many that roamed into my space. I know what I am talking about.

Getting your ship blown up here is not like in Eve where it is easy to get another one, this is a different game, there's no insurance here, there are many ways to get another ship in Eve. This game is NEW with limited number of game loops(will be this way for a WHILE). The aim for any game is to reward player progression, not have one part of the game hinder and reset them constantly.
The playerbase cannot grow if they are not being protected from you griefers. Even Eve has Concord and High sec that is MASSIVE, a new player in Eve can stay in high sec for YEARS and be occupied everyday of those years without having to venture out into null with the sheer number of game loops, this is why Eve still has a playerbase. Starbase does not have enough game loops/systems/mechanics to emulate this yet. Starbase needs to grow its base before it can grow its scope.

I am not a casual player, my friends are, they don't play eve. They like shipbuilding/basebuilding/crafting games, I do too and this game intersects nicely with what we all like. Nobody wants to come home from work and hop on to a job-like game.

I am so glad PvP headstrong folks are not on the decision making team for Starbase. Frozenbyte just have to keep playing to the strengths of their platform and stick with the roadmap, then this will be a fantastic game. I'll say it better this time; it's nice to have the option to PvP, but this game won't die if you aren't forced into it.

Edit: If you can't read and comprehend what I have been saying till now then you're not worth my time debating with any longer. I believe I have made my case for my points thoroughly.

 

[shado20]

They haven't even really played fleet/alliance PvP Eve to know what they are really advocating for and why it won't work here.

i played eve online 11 years in with some big alliances, been on many big fleets, i have played many pve and pvp games , i fully understand how all this works. you have already stated your advocating for griefers to have the ultimate platform to work out of so anything you have to say beyond this is "you want to grief players"

just like in any game, the ships here cost gos up with the size and complexity of ship. jest like in eve, someone mined those ores and built the ships. its no different here. eve is small compared to this games ability to hid in a area.

and you think im a PvPer ,lol
i'm the guy in the back end kicking the crap out of the PvE of the game, mining, building ships, station, bases and such depending on game.

 

[[QS] Combustible]

This is like debating with toddlers, I'm exhausted lmao.

They completely ignore the counter arguments I make and avoid them. They explain no points they make in detail and repeat the same things over and over like its law, I am convinced they don't know what they are talking about and this is a legit waste of time.

They haven't even really played fleet/alliance PvP Eve to know what they are really advocating for and why it won't work here. In case you didn't know; Eve is the only place where this kind of gameplay and scale exists and there's reasons why it has not been successful anywhere else, many of which I keep repeating.

Mining in Null eve is brain dead with intel/warning/local open. Mining in WH is the only mining where you get murdered if you're not constantly spamming Dscan. I have lived in every part of Null, I owned a titan and super caps, I have done every DeD site, the only thing I haven't done is the trig stuff, but I have done the abyssals. I have been blown up countless times and I have killed many that roamed into my space. I know what I am talking about.

Getting your ship blown up here is not like in Eve where it is easy to get another one, this is a different game, there's no insurance here, there are many ways to get another ship in Eve. This game is NEW with limited number of game loops(will be this way for a WHILE). The aim for any game is to reward player progression, not have one part of the game hinder and reset them constantly.
The playerbase cannot grow if they are not being protected from you griefers. Even Eve has Concord and High sec that is MASSIVE, a new player in Eve can stay in high sec for YEARS and be occupied everyday of those years without having to venture out into null with the sheer number of game loops, this is why Eve still has a playerbase. Starbase does not have enough game loops/systems/mechanics to emulate this yet. Starbase needs to grow its base before it can grow its scope.

I am not a casual player, my friends are, they don't play eve. They like shipbuilding/basebuilding/crafting games, I do too and this game intersects nicely with what we all like. Nobody wants to come home from work and hop on to a job-like game.

I am so glad PvP headstrong folks are not on the decision making team for Starbase. Frozenbyte just have to keep playing to the strengths of their platform and stick with the roadmap, then this will be a fantastic game. I'll say it better this time; it's nice to have the option to PvP, but this game won't die if you aren't forced into it.

Amazing response, definitely something to highlight. Ships are worth so much more, especially capital ships. They need to be protected at this point, especially if the game wants to cater to friend groups or solos. There are plenty more things to grief and destroy, this is almost needed for civ caps to exist.

 

[Cavilier210]

I just want to point out that insurance is actually planned.

 

[Verbatos]

This is like debating with toddlers, I'm exhausted lmao.

They completely ignore the counter arguments I make and avoid them. They explain no points they make in detail and repeat the same things over and over like its law, I am convinced they don't know what they are talking about and this is a legit waste of time.

They haven't even really played fleet/alliance PvP Eve to know what they are really advocating for and why it won't work here. In case you didn't know; Eve is the only place where this kind of gameplay and scale exists and there's reasons why it has not been successful anywhere else, many of which I keep repeating.

Mining in Null eve is brain dead with intel/warning/local open. Mining in WH is the only mining where you get murdered if you're not constantly spamming Dscan. I have lived in every part of Null, I owned a titan and super caps, I have done every DeD site, the only thing I haven't done is the trig stuff, but I have done the abyssals. I have been blown up countless times and I have killed many that roamed into my space. I know what I am talking about.

Getting your ship blown up here is not like in Eve where it is easy to get another one, this is a different game, there's no insurance here, there are many ways to get another ship in Eve. This game is NEW with limited number of game loops(will be this way for a WHILE). The aim for any game is to reward player progression, not have one part of the game hinder and reset them constantly.
The playerbase cannot grow if they are not being protected from you griefers. Even Eve has Concord and High sec that is MASSIVE, a new player in Eve can stay in high sec for YEARS and be occupied everyday of those years without having to venture out into null with the sheer number of game loops, this is why Eve still has a playerbase. Starbase does not have enough game loops/systems/mechanics to emulate this yet. Starbase needs to grow its base before it can grow its scope.

I am not a casual player, my friends are, they don't play eve. They like shipbuilding/basebuilding/crafting games, I do too and this game intersects nicely with what we all like. Nobody wants to come home from work and hop on to a job-like game.

I am so glad PvP headstrong folks are not on the decision making team for Starbase. Frozenbyte just have to keep playing to the strengths of their platform and stick with the roadmap, then this will be a fantastic game. I'll say it better this time; it's nice to have the option to PvP, but this game won't die if you aren't forced into it.

Edit: If you can't read and comprehend what I have been saying till now then you're not worth my time debating with any longer. I believe I have made my case for my points thoroughly.

As Cav said, insurance is planned, you don't lose everything even if your stuff gets yoinked. Plus I remember hearing that the 3D printers coming could make ships segments, which would make it easier to rebuild ships if insurance doesn't reimburse costs. Losing what you have really isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. It is remarkably easy to pick up a new ship.
I will have to say that while I am not sure this applies to caps, nobody except large factions will have them to begin with, certainly not small friendgroups. Collective, arguably the most powerful player-run faction in the Alpha right now, struggled to erect a small station, the caps will be at least 10x the price according to the devs.

Personally I just think that they should split the universe in two, maybe create a separate system and fill the current one with a giant permanent safezone?

 

[Shulace]

As Cav said, insurance is planned, you don't lose everything even if your stuff gets yoinked. Plus I remember hearing that the 3D printers coming could make ships segments, which would make it easier to rebuild ships if insurance doesn't reimburse costs. Losing what you have really isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. It is remarkably easy to pick up a new ship.
I will have to say that while I am not sure this applies to caps, nobody except large factions will have them to begin with, certainly not small friendgroups. Collective, arguably the most powerful player-run faction in the Alpha right now, struggled to erect a small station, the caps will be at least 10x the price according to the devs.

Personally I just think that they should split the universe in two, maybe create a separate system and fill the current one with a giant permanent safezone?

This is exactly why I feel like I'm talking to toddlers.

Try to talk about factual things not what you feel in your heart of hearts how things should be, this is the Frozenbyte Capital Ship Video on Ownership and if you read this thread up in until this point, you would know I addressed this earlier as well; until they come out and say otherwise, I will keep looking forward to this game.

Edit: Also, I just used insurance as an example, there are far, far more reasons why this game won't work like that namely =>Not enough game loops and credit faucets. I repeated myself again.

 

[Cavilier210]

You do realize that there is more material about these than just the video right?

 

[Shulace]

You do realize that there is more material about these than just the video right?

Yes right here:

it seems something may have triggered you. its ok the safe zone will accept everyone including you, now now its ok!

Refer to the image. What you gonna whine about now? Devs responded on the matter.

 

[Cavilier210]

There's a FAQ as well, and numerous other things, and you keep referencing a video.

 

[Shulace]

There's a FAQ as well, and numerous other things, and you keep referencing a video.

I just sent you literally what the devs wrote TODAY regarding civ caps, are we not talking about civ caps?