Research + Crafting Progression Values WAY too high
- Thread starter Atreties
- Start date
There has to be some artificial progression though. We don't want week old accounts to have the same capabilities as accounts made weeks/months ago. Otherwise there will never been things in the auction house sold for a profit as everyone can just make everything from day one.
The fact that you can still create ships with any part and buy anything from the auction house makes your point totally moot. Nothing is being "limited" just less efficient.
The fact that you can still create ships with any part and buy anything from the auction house makes your point totally moot. Nothing is being "limited" just less efficient.
people got to understand how important the research tree actually is to the overall game play. one of the biggest is our economy in the game. when i was in CA all i did was mine ore and sell it to npc terminals for credits to buy ships, wasnt until near the end of CA that the change of needing material became a part of buying the pre mades. honestly until that point i could just buy all ship parts, stations parts, and weapons without ever even needing to commerce with others. with the research trees we have a demand for ore, most importantly a need for it. A lot of people are only persuing one tree right now of the three and even on some they are only able to unlock part of the three main research trees making them have to engage more socially whether it be direct trades or buying off the ah, either way it forces a need of social interactions with other players, something CA didn't have outside of pvp, research trees is what actually makes it where you have to deal with others.
if we dropped the research trees and went back to just mining ore and selling it all from your ship for credits, this will be a single player game with online play only being an option, where as now you do have to interact with others. Look at World of Warcraft, it is literally becoming a single player game and their numbers in subs are dropping and have been dropping drastically, one of the biggest reasons, it doesn't feel like a massive multiplayer game anymore. i can have 8 toons that do every crafting part of the game, making it where i never need anyone outside of dungeons, raids and battlegrounds which are all que sign ups now making it where you dont need to make friends anymore and limiting a lot of peoples playtime to a much more solo play. we dont want that for starbase, we dont want a bunch safe zone huggers since they never need to go out anywhere past grabbing basic ores to sell to vendor to buy w/e is they want for their stations, endo, or ships.
and if you ever played any mmo ever! then a crafting system should not be a surprise of the grind because every game with a crafting system is a grind. WoW, SWTOR, Ark, ESO, 7 days to die, rift, archeage, Diablo 3, Black Desert, Eve, LOTRO, FF14, EQ2, Runescape, GW2, Wurm, Ultima, and the list keeps going on of games with all grindy craft systems. It feels like gamers are getting lazier as time goes on and that is what these complaints reflect more than anything, because if you follow all mmo games over the last 2 decades nothing has changed in sense of having to grind. so what is the big issue? is it the crafting system? or is it people just wanting stuff now and not wanting to work for it?
EDIT: Even a lot of fps'rs like COD has it where you got to grind guns to unlock other stuff, so if you play online games, you should be use to the grinds.
if we dropped the research trees and went back to just mining ore and selling it all from your ship for credits, this will be a single player game with online play only being an option, where as now you do have to interact with others. Look at World of Warcraft, it is literally becoming a single player game and their numbers in subs are dropping and have been dropping drastically, one of the biggest reasons, it doesn't feel like a massive multiplayer game anymore. i can have 8 toons that do every crafting part of the game, making it where i never need anyone outside of dungeons, raids and battlegrounds which are all que sign ups now making it where you dont need to make friends anymore and limiting a lot of peoples playtime to a much more solo play. we dont want that for starbase, we dont want a bunch safe zone huggers since they never need to go out anywhere past grabbing basic ores to sell to vendor to buy w/e is they want for their stations, endo, or ships.
and if you ever played any mmo ever! then a crafting system should not be a surprise of the grind because every game with a crafting system is a grind. WoW, SWTOR, Ark, ESO, 7 days to die, rift, archeage, Diablo 3, Black Desert, Eve, LOTRO, FF14, EQ2, Runescape, GW2, Wurm, Ultima, and the list keeps going on of games with all grindy craft systems. It feels like gamers are getting lazier as time goes on and that is what these complaints reflect more than anything, because if you follow all mmo games over the last 2 decades nothing has changed in sense of having to grind. so what is the big issue? is it the crafting system? or is it people just wanting stuff now and not wanting to work for it?
EDIT: Even a lot of fps'rs like COD has it where you got to grind guns to unlock other stuff, so if you play online games, you should be use to the grinds.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2021
- Messages
- 7
For me the worst part of tech tree is that I am forced to unlock things I absolutely positively won't ever use such as cockpit modules which are nothing but an obstacle in researching interesting stuff.
Also paint tool being high end tool with grind to unlock any one paint color is an odd choice for me.
Also paint tool being high end tool with grind to unlock any one paint color is an odd choice for me.
I agree the values are way off making the game a grind fest. For me if these are skill points why not reward them for other feats. I managed to build up a decent starter ship, farm 300,000 credits and the ore required for a marmot MN plus multiple missions outside the safe zone, took about 4 days. Surely you should have some skill points for this type of progress rather than just farm crafting benches to gain points (and cash). I'm ready to start laying a station now but to get the required tech just isn't worth it as my current progress is essentially meaningless.
To me perhaps the following should give some form of skill points or bonus.
1. First time leaving the safe zone then 100km, 1000km, first Moon landing etc
2. Build or purchase a second ship
3. First time finding a rare mineral
4. First kill as a pirate
5. Each time you repair a ship
6. Making your first million in an org
The list goes on but the point is it gives player milestones beyond mine and craft, rinse repeat.
To me perhaps the following should give some form of skill points or bonus.
1. First time leaving the safe zone then 100km, 1000km, first Moon landing etc
2. Build or purchase a second ship
3. First time finding a rare mineral
4. First kill as a pirate
5. Each time you repair a ship
6. Making your first million in an org
The list goes on but the point is it gives player milestones beyond mine and craft, rinse repeat.
@polla2256 your asking for achievement system in which they already said in time they will be developing it. today we hit 1 month of open alpha, to implement an achievment system would not be a good idea on the shear fact that information, items, and temporary goals will be changing drastically looking to find balances. in past posts FB said there will be things you can unlock and gain in the game through what would be achievements. I do believe this will be one way outside of the cosmetic shop to earn cool in game stuff.
achievement systems which is what your talking about is really pointless this early in alpha, because some things wont be left in the game while other things will replace certain things. achievement system in my opinion is something you worry more about the closer to 1.0 you start to get, closer to 1.0 means about everything in the game is pretty much staying. infact most games achievement system doesn't even come into full play until there is a 1.0 launch, just because at that point the game is done and its easier to build a system to things that won't be changing.
achievement systems which is what your talking about is really pointless this early in alpha, because some things wont be left in the game while other things will replace certain things. achievement system in my opinion is something you worry more about the closer to 1.0 you start to get, closer to 1.0 means about everything in the game is pretty much staying. infact most games achievement system doesn't even come into full play until there is a 1.0 launch, just because at that point the game is done and its easier to build a system to things that won't be changing.
By that logic isn't any progression system pointless? If were supposed to be testing things why not just remove the tech tree and let us play the game? I can understand a tech tree when there is some progression to test but the current state of the game lacks anything to progress to. The only things you can't build inside of the ship design are stations and weapons. And while weapons are an important thing to "gate" behind a progression system stations just aren't complete yet. I was extremely discouraged after spending all week to get stations just to find out that they are basically unusable.
thats not what i said, what your asking for is an achievement system on a game that technically isn't fully functioning yet. they are still removing things and readding them to fix issues. getting the game to a functioning system is primarily more important than polish. and most players will tell you that current game mechanics all don't even work, so to do milestones now would be pointless. what reward is there to even give? and what UI would you even use to acknowledge this? there are guns that still haven't made it to release, such as a the flamethrower, and melee weapons such as axes, swords, hammers, etc, havent even made it to 3d modeling yet. things you would want milestones on, aren't even in the game, such as 20 kills with a sword, or kill 5 endos at one time with a flamethrower, etc, etc.
remember this is open alpha, and it is still considered extremely far from a 1.0 game(which is a full release of a finished version). getting the game's core mechanics to work to get to this 1.0 version is so much more important than personal mile stones of a player. i doubt this will happen, but for arguement sake, if these mechanics are not developed, fixed, and tested for smooth gaming(including optimization, mechanics to make the game feel less bare bones, and importantly a functioning version to want to keep people playing and interested). milestones don't mean jack if the game never makes it to 1.0 release. and i dont know of any game that adds this kinda of a system that hasn't even made it to a true Beta version, let alone still in alpha.
it is extremely important that players read the warning before buying the game that this is not a finished version, and infact it wont be for at least 1.5 years. so polish right now isn't that important when we have no factory assembly, can't even take ownership of another player's ship, no armor values for endos, easy build mode still destroys ships and yolo code that operates everything is still imo archaic.
remember this is open alpha, and it is still considered extremely far from a 1.0 game(which is a full release of a finished version). getting the game's core mechanics to work to get to this 1.0 version is so much more important than personal mile stones of a player. i doubt this will happen, but for arguement sake, if these mechanics are not developed, fixed, and tested for smooth gaming(including optimization, mechanics to make the game feel less bare bones, and importantly a functioning version to want to keep people playing and interested). milestones don't mean jack if the game never makes it to 1.0 release. and i dont know of any game that adds this kinda of a system that hasn't even made it to a true Beta version, let alone still in alpha.
it is extremely important that players read the warning before buying the game that this is not a finished version, and infact it wont be for at least 1.5 years. so polish right now isn't that important when we have no factory assembly, can't even take ownership of another player's ship, no armor values for endos, easy build mode still destroys ships and yolo code that operates everything is still imo archaic.
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- Joined
- Apr 5, 2021
- Messages
- 102
I kind of expect that once the core game is done, FB may introduce a skill tree which will allow us to train skills, improving specific things, much like EVE has.. Could see things like weapons range/falloff/accuracy, engine performance, fuel efficiency, carry capacity and more..
This would also combine with what I expect will be the need for FB to have more revenue streams coming from the game than just the initial purchase. They could introduce subscription as an optional model which will offer benefits like:
Continuous training of skills vs only when online
Faster training rate
schedule longer training queues
Not having a sub would not lock you out of any skills, subscribing though will give you access to these skills faster, you could opt in and out of subscribing as needed. Potentially subs could also give exclusive access (while subscribed) to specific cosmetic items, nothing that would boost in-game abilities or performance but would boost your in game "ego" and ability to "show of" your cool looks..
This would also combine with what I expect will be the need for FB to have more revenue streams coming from the game than just the initial purchase. They could introduce subscription as an optional model which will offer benefits like:
Continuous training of skills vs only when online
Faster training rate
schedule longer training queues
Not having a sub would not lock you out of any skills, subscribing though will give you access to these skills faster, you could opt in and out of subscribing as needed. Potentially subs could also give exclusive access (while subscribed) to specific cosmetic items, nothing that would boost in-game abilities or performance but would boost your in game "ego" and ability to "show of" your cool looks..