Allow real money trade in the TOS

Joined
Aug 13, 2021
Messages
3
#1
TL/DR - Prohibit bad instances of RMT, such as acts of scamming, but don't completely prohibit good RMT since there's so much good that can come of it. Player population would increase a ton (Look at other massively popular games such as EVE, Garry's Mod and Roblox where players can earn real life money from their ingame items), play time would increase since people could make IRL money from their time spent ingame


What: Don't implement a system that regulates the exchange of real life money for in game items or services, but instead just don't completely prohibit it in the TOS.

Why: It would be incredibly rewarding just to know that in the back of your mind, with all these hours spent rage quitting as well as enjoying Starbase, that you can make real life money from what you do in Starbase. The ability to make real life money from Starbase would make Starbase explode in popularity as well, look at some games that are successful that allow players to profit IRL from their ingame actions. (EVE, Garry's Mod, Roblox) All of these games allow players to get creative and profit of their creativeness either by regulation (Roblox) or by pretty much an unregulated market (GMod).

a con I can immediately think of is that people will inevitably be scammed, but this naturally occurs across almost every single internet platform where RMT happens, even those with preventative scamming measures. You'll have some bad eggs who are bad people in general, but those are far and few compared to those who legitimately want the opportunity to do business on Starbase.

Solution to avoid litigation when dealing with scammers? Explicitly prohibit instances of scamming for RMT in the TOS. Legally Frozenbyte would probably be off the hook if they disallowed scamming for IRL money in their TOS.

A legitimate example of allowing RMT - I'd love to pay someone in my company or hire a freelance miner some IRL money to collect some ores for me so that I can build a ship and sell it to another company for some USD. I could pay them via venmo, paypal, btc, etc (basically whatever payment platform, since it wouldn't regulated by Starbase it doesn't really matter)


Obviously the protections of griefing, scamming, etc of the new players should stay in place.

EDIT: RMT could work on Starbase and since there won't be a USD/Credit correlation like there is for EVE (USD/PLEX then ISK/PLEX can easily lead to a USD/ISK correlation), most RMT I can see would be for skill based services such as paying someone to design a blueprint for them or paying for someone to be security while I head into the safe zone to mine or paying a miner to attain some extremely rare ore. (Since it takes both time and skill to navigate out of the safe zone to go on a mining expedition for the rare ore)

Thoughts? Would love to see real money trade allowed in Starbase
 
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Jakaal

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Joined
Aug 13, 2021
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25
#2
no game company wants to open themselve up to the liability of allowing RMT and/or encouraging it in their game. it just is not worth it not to mention that most western gamers absolutely HATE the idea.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
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#3
EVE Online is a subscription based MMO where you can opt to pay with in-game currency. As for your "legit example", nothing is stopping you from hiring a person to play either your account or for the benefit of your account. Perhaps it's against the EULA but almost impossible to enforce nonetheless. Are you asking Frozenbyte to facilitate easier means to conduct money transfers between individuals? :confused: That's not exactly a feasible for a small, independent developer studio, and would open a big can of worms, meaning possible liability issues and a need to hire extra lawyers and customer support against malicious uses. Maybe it's something to reconsider after 5 years if Starbase really blows up (in a positive way) and they're running out of better ideas. There are no shortcuts in making a successful MMO.
 
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Aug 13, 2021
Messages
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#4
Gotcha, the EVE online was a bad example but look at Garry's mod, (a game released in 2006 that still averages close to 40,000 people playing it per day on steam, 15 years after it was released) people have made a living from designing & creating Garry's mod addons, which is similar to how people could make a living designing and creating ships & providing services on Starbase. Facepunch (The UK based studio which produces GMod) doesn't intervene in the dealings of GMod addons, which means they don't have any liability (since they don't deal with any monetary transactions for GMod outside of people buying the game from steam) and have probably the most popular steam workshop community of any game, where players provide free content on the steam workshop and sell their addons using a third party website that isn't affiliated with Facepunch or Garry's mod
 
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blazemonger

Veteran endo
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
102
#6
Allowing RMT in a game like StarBase would open a can of worms youre _realy_ wish you had not. For one, it will (there is no "may" here) see people exploit others to design, craft or in general work in game for their own personal benefit.

RMT is a bad idea. it is and should remain prohibited under TOS as well as be vigorously tracked and stopped. You do not want to see massive pirate groups show up (and they would) who will start holding people at ransom "send us 0.005 BC now or we will destroy your ship". That is literally facilitating real world crime and would have Frozenbyte be liable for all sorts of litigation.

I woudl never say you are, but your idea/suggestion here is straight up dumb and ill conceived.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2021
Messages
3
#7
You do not want to see massive pirate groups show up (and they would) who will start holding people at ransom "send us 0.005 BC now or we will destroy your ship". That is literally facilitating real world crime and would have Frozenbyte be liable for all sorts of litigation.
I mean nothing stops them from blowing you up in the first place. This scenario kinda sounds like quite the unique experience, (literally never seen a video game where this is possible) had to pay $5 over venmo so some online pirates from starbase wouldn't blow up my ship. Also nothing stopping them from taking that $5 and blowing you up, also nothing stopping them from just blowing you up for fun without asking for any $, so in that instance I'd probably say no to that ransom knowing they can just blow me up anyways.

Legally speaking, I believe that scamming and blackmailing/extortion/requesting of IRL money in exchange to not destroy/damage one's ingame items should be explicitly prohibited in the TOS. Purely on the basis I have not consulted a lawyer about this and have never come across a video game where this experience is possible so there's no legal precedent I could argue off of. Probably good to have a legal blanket covering instances of "bad" RMT and some legal blanket relieving Frozenbyte of any litigation/"we're not responsible for player to player actions with RMT" involving player to player transactions that include IRL money. Would scamming be allowed? No, scamming for RMT should also be explicitly prohibited in the TOS (Saying this because I don't know of any legal precedent where scamming of a video game's virtual items for IRL money in a player to player transaction has occurred and been brought to court)

While I'm not a lawyer, Garry's mod has been around for 15 years, doesn't have any regulation on the sale of addons (same as blueprints, both GMod addons & Starbase blueprints are files you can download online and put into your steam directories so they work ingame) and doesn't regulate any sales of services (ex. Paying players to moderate a GMod server or a developer to code an addon, is the same as paying a person to design a blueprint/ship or paying them $5 via venmo to provide security while you go out of the safe zone). Looking through the internet, I have not come across an instance of Facepunch facing litigation ever for Garry's Mod.

I've read over Facepunch/GMod's TOS/EULA where it pertains to RMT. Facepunch outright says yeah you can sell what you create ingame for IRL money. EVE prohibits it in their TOS but since there is a USD/PLEX and ISK/PLEX correlation, RMT is still rampant even though it's prohibited in their TOS.

I just wanna be able to pay someone $10 from discord to provide security for me out of the safe zone or venmo some guy $30 for his awesome ship blueprint without repercussions from frozenbyte

In an ideal world, RMT would be allowed with no regulation and no possible litigation could ever happen to frozenbyte over RMT. How this could happen, I'm not entirely sure but I hope RMT in some form is allowed
 
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Johnwarosa

Active endo
Joined
Aug 15, 2021
Messages
33
#9
I don't really know... on the one hand, it would allow people to make money off the game they like, but on the other, it is a slippery slope that could make the game pay 2 win (and not because of greedy developers this time!) if not handled carefully.
 

Amos.37

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
154
#10
Just... no.
There are so many legal and licensing issues with doing this, and the security issues of having a small game-dev group handling frequent real currency transactions alone makes it an unfeasible idea.
Gameplay wise, it only benefits wallet warriors with disposable income, no one else. That would turn the game from an even playing field to one that unfairly favors those with the cash.
This may be more profitable for FB in the short-term, but long-term will alienate large portions of the playerbase and ultimately lead to the servers shutting down in 3-8 years on average (based on other real-world examples of MMOs taken over by GAMIGO that all died within this timeframe due to over-monetisation).

And as far as the idea of earning money from Starbase, that's not how MMO's with RMT work. They always require putting in more money than you can get out of them. That's how they make money. The alternative is effectively working for a tiny fraction of minimum wage.
The only exception to the 'House always wins' rule, is to scam other players.
 
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