Concerns with Single Player

[YakkoForever]

The addition of a separate single player game mode is nice for members of the community that have been traumatized by past experiences involving toxic player-bases. but I have concerns about its effect on the primary online game.
Single player dilutes the player base which is a critical part of any MMO.

One element that I feel is critical to bring to this discussion is 'cheats' specifically in a single player environment. These cheats will allow people in single player to run way ahead of the multiplayer environment. for example when the moon is added the first people their will not be the multiplayer alliance that though great strife made it. No, instead the first people there will be single players who teleported there using hacks or built a super fast ship and just spawned in fuel. Or even without cheats the single player might get there first because there is no threat to them as they prepare for the journey. People will complain about this saying who gets there first does not matter because their game world is separate from mine but to that comment I say youtube. if the fastest way to experience the new content is single player there will be a detailed exploration of the moon posted to youtube before the Multiplayer people get there.

Further, with the physics and persistence of the game world, single player really hurts the history of the game. The first person on the moon should leave a wreck or at least the remains of their passage that players can follow.

On a different note, if in single player there is a way to cheat such as duping, spawning in ship, or spawning in resource it will be essentially the mandatory R&D zone. Every R&D group will be building ships there and test them there due to the infinite resources. Then once the ship will get ported to the main game. this kinda takes away the fun of having a R&D department hidden in a corner of space trying things. it also leave a history of testing and experiments gone wrong in the game world where anyone can stumble into it. Remember that gamers will optimize the fun out of a game, and yes this is a well studied fact that can be shown clearly even in single player games like subnautica.

hopefully by now you have a inkling of the problems with the separate single player world. I am not saying it should not exist just that there needs to measures taken to make sure it does not hurt the core MMO game. here I will provide a brief list of things that could be done to help this problem.
1) No matter what do not allow ship blueprints to to transfer from single player to multiplayer.
2) Keep single player hacks in check. people will do it but at least make it so people have to go to a third party to download or get them.
3) Make hacks even in singe players against the terms of service. yeah that mean no modding
4) Release content one week late for the single player game.
5) prioritize the multiplayer setting for updates and content.

I just hope the my R&D is best done on a multiplayer server

 

[Tumbla]

I agree, game should be kept as an MMO online. Maybe an offline ship editor or builder, but keep it small so the main playerbase is in the MMO.

 

[Morrgard]

I believe that a singleplayer of the game would only be an empty world working similarly to "Creative mode" where you only create your blueprints, completely empty otherwise except for what you construct.

Only there for you to create an aesthetically pleasing ship for you to build up in multiplayer. Do keep in mind it's nothing that you are "porting over" so to speak to multiplayer but it would be something you still have to build in multiplayer none the less, you would only have the layout to build after having built a blueprint in singleplayer first.

As for modding, I doubt that would happen regardless as this is an MMO primarily.

 

[Recatek]

I'm looking forward to having an offline sandbox mode for experimenting and rapid iteration of ideas. I don't think it will harm the broader game.

 

[TangoXrayJuliet]

Generally I'm agree with you that the online game should be the priority and single player sandbox need some nerf. But there's also some different thoughts.

First in my opinion, the offline mode should be a place has most of important features (like physics) same as online game and let players design and test their creations with fairly low cost. Similar to creative mode in Space Engineers.

Features like economic system, mission system and NPCs can be removed form offline mode, make it less playable and more like a testing range rather than an independent game sharing the same setting.

Games like starbase should encourage most of its players being creative and active. If you raise the cost of designing and testing too much by forcing it being done online, this can bring negative effect. A lot of ordinary players may not have enough capital or just not brave enough for risking the long time, failure and resource loss. Thus rather than try to create their own things they would simply copy others' creations and do minor modifications. Or they will still create but with a higher learning and trying cost which sounds "hardcore” and seems benefits the life circle of online game but also harms their enthusiasm. As for the R&D of big clans and top R&D players organizations, they're more capable to risk and won't being affected too much. These kinds of things happen in real life, but shouldn't in this game.

Cheating in single player like spawning resources, copying ships and instantly complete building, is the main way to lower the cost. Forbidding this may not a good idea.

As for hidden R&D facilities and relics of experiment failure, it sounds pretty interesting, but may not be so important compare to a creative and active player community.

For your worry about players taking shortcuts to achieve things like reach the moon, or in other word some kind of “spoiler”, I really don't think people will treat reach the moon in online game and reach the moon by cheat in offline mode equally.

But it can become a problem when it comes to when devs want players to find some secrets (space anomalies, easter eggs, etc.) or put some efforts before get familiar with a newly updated thing. If so they can make them online only or introduce them into offline mode in a later update. This is more flexible than the solid one-week delay.

For example, changes of physics (i.e. drag being removed, though this is likely not possible LOL) should be up-to-date, but things like adding moon to the universe in offline mode can be delayed to after someone reached the moon in online game or any time devs thinks its ready.

Lastly, there's my three ideas for a way to design and test creations:
- Best: An offline mode with most of the important features of online mode but without multiplayer capability.
-Decent: An offline mode with an empty world (like what #3 said).
- At least: A ship blueprint editor in online mode, like the station creator.

 

[Variabug]

I've been talking to a discord mod and he said that there are 2 single player modes. A sandbox test mode and a blueprint editor. Both have the capability of being hosted so multiple people can join.

 

[Jetthetank]

It would sure add another dimension to the game if there were no SP or blueprint editor outside the actual online MMO.
would be really neat to see, because not everyone would have the time to build ships necessarily and that would add the market for ship building enterprises and creating more roles in the universe.

otherwise, you end up with Empyrion, where I dont have to build a single thing in the actual game, just spawn a blueprint on a server and build it, via downloading it off of the workshop.

I feel like keeping this inside the game would be really really cool, but maybe have some sort of editor inside the MMO for testing designs.
but this would only really work and be fair if there is only one entire server.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

The addition of a separate single player game mode is nice for members of the community that have been traumatized by past experiences involving toxic player-bases. but I have concerns about its effect on the primary online game.
Single player dilutes the player base which is a critical part of any MMO.

One element that I feel is critical to bring to this discussion is 'cheats' specifically in a single player environment. These cheats will allow people in single player to run way ahead of the multiplayer environment. for example when the moon is added the first people their will not be the multiplayer alliance that though great strife made it. No, instead the first people there will be single players who teleported there using hacks or built a super fast ship and just spawned in fuel. Or even without cheats the single player might get there first because there is no threat to them as they prepare for the journey. People will complain about this saying who gets there first does not matter because their game world is separate from mine but to that comment I say youtube. if the fastest way to experience the new content is single player there will be a detailed exploration of the moon posted to youtube before the Multiplayer people get there.

Further, with the physics and persistence of the game world, single player really hurts the history of the game. The first person on the moon should leave a wreck or at least the remains of their passage that players can follow.

On a different note, if in single player there is a way to cheat such as duping, spawning in ship, or spawning in resource it will be essentially the mandatory R&D zone. Every R&D group will be building ships there and test them there due to the infinite resources. Then once the ship will get ported to the main game. this kinda takes away the fun of having a R&D department hidden in a corner of space trying things. it also leave a history of testing and experiments gone wrong in the game world where anyone can stumble into it. Remember that gamers will optimize the fun out of a game, and yes this is a well studied fact that can be shown clearly even in single player games like subnautica.

hopefully by now you have a inkling of the problems with the separate single player world. I am not saying it should not exist just that there needs to measures taken to make sure it does not hurt the core MMO game. here I will provide a brief list of things that could be done to help this problem.
1) No matter what do not allow ship blueprints to to transfer from single player to multiplayer.
2) Keep single player hacks in check. people will do it but at least make it so people have to go to a third party to download or get them.
3) Make hacks even in singe players against the terms of service. yeah that mean no modding
4) Release content one week late for the single player game.
5) prioritize the multiplayer setting for updates and content.

I just hope the my R&D is best done on a multiplayer server

Single player definitely should never be a game mode which shares all features with the MMO mode, it should be kept simply as a little creative world for ship design and nothing more.

 

[Jetthetank]

I feel this would be a MAJOR immersion element change where it would shift the entire element of shipbuilding directly into the game, making it much more exiting and engaging in the MMO world.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

I feel this would be a MAJOR immersion element change where it would shift the entire element of shipbuilding directly into the game, making it much more exiting and engaging in the MMO world.

Ship designing in a free form creative mode could be quite nice, but everything would be built in the mmo world regardless.

 

[Jetthetank]

But maybe add some sort of Blueprint stat Simulation, to test a blueprint build to test power, stability, logistics, and other variables. that way it isnt just cold turkey trial and error for every three pieces you add to your new ship design,

 

[Jetthetank]

Yea, bear, that would be fine, but other space MMOs have that. and it just seems to take all the fun of building ships within the actual game.
If it was all incorporated, that MMO population wouldnt be lost, and all the time and effort would directly be ported throught the game realtime,

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

But maybe add some sort of Blueprint stat Simulation, to test a blueprint build to test power, stability, logistics, and other variables. that way it isnt just cold turkey trial and error for every three pieces you add to your new ship design,

That would be most practical for ship builders yes.

 

[Jetthetank]

Would add a very new and unique take on the ship building in space games. kinda a breath of fresh air.

 

[Jetthetank]

I feel it, as well as other folks I have talked with, it really breaks the immersion from a rp, or maybe not even rp side of things. When you just build a ship in an editor, it makes it really strenous when trying to build one in the survival world, but it doesnt really feel like you built that ship as part of that world, it feels like you just cheated in a design out of thin air, and your just cookie cutting it out.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

I feel it, as well as other folks I have talked with, it really breaks the immersion from a rp, or maybe not even rp side of things. When you just build a ship in an editor, it makes it really strenous when trying to build one in the survival world, but it doesnt really feel like you built that ship as part of that world, it feels like you just cheated in a design out of thin air, and your just cookie cutting it out.

I somewhat understand what you mean, you won't get to see gradual progress its just a grind for the bits to put the whole thing together in one go.

 

[Jetthetank]

Lol, I should just start a new thread, this is a little off topic.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Lol, I should just start a new thread, this is a little off topic.

Yeah it somewhat is.

 

[Jetthetank]

I somewhat understand what you mean, you won't get to see gradual progress its just a grind for the bits to put the whole thing together in one go.

But exactly, that is partially how it feels.

But if there was some way to integrate it into the realtime game itself, like a scaled sim R&D chamber simulation or something it would be really cool.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

But exactly, that is partially how it feels.

But if there was some way to integrate it into the realtime game itself, like a scaled sim R&D chamber simulation or something it would be really cool.

I can get behind that.