I'm glad there is not a full fledged Single Player as that is really not what this game is about and I don't want the devs to eat their time on it. That being said I do like the Sandbox mode for testing though at times I think be more fun if they could always do it in the live version of the game only. That being said it would really make a designers job really hard to even near impossible and either they have to sell blueprints for the most insane costs ever or they just don't exist to make it worth while. So I can see for that reason the real need for it. But outside that I kind wish everything had to be stress tested in the live environment to make things a bit more fun and discovered in the live env rather then just known because was tested before.
Concerns with Single Player
- Thread starter YakkoForever
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That would be good, but I would like to see a lot of companies selling ships, adds a whole new feeling or dynamic to the game that there are players out there like dedicated companies to manufacturing designs upon requests or selling their own designs. But in order for that to work there needs to be someplace where these things can be done, I would opt for a simple "space" nothing more, for the SP where you have a creative mode of space engineers, it shouldn't replicate what you can and can't find in the main world.
This way you wont be gaining much except you can make and test your blueprints out in SP and then you would still need to build them in multiplayer
This way you wont be gaining much except you can make and test your blueprints out in SP and then you would still need to build them in multiplayer
The problem I see with offline testing (as in, spawn in unlimited resources and ships) is a large bulk of gameplay would exist in those offline environments as everyone realizes it is more efficient to test there than in the live game. It's just faster. As such, we lose the possibility of running into random abandoned test ships, or ships that didn't work out in combat as the designer hoped being left as wrecks among the asteroids - so many small events that actually add up into tremendous amounts of gameplay would be lost. The problem of "how to move asteroids" becomes quickly solved with no action in the live game, eliminating an untold amount of gameplay and interaction that would occur if these things had to be tested in the live environment. Every interaction left to the offline environment devalues the main game where those interactions could have taken place in the presence of other players who would appreciate simply seeing someone solving problems, moving around a station, checking the market for a material they want to test and so on. All that bulk content is eliminated when everyone retreats to an offline world to do their testing, eventually getting bored of testing and perfecting their designs after blowing their own designs up 1000 times, and then loads into the main game, to find it empty of players, no one to actually show your design to, because everyone is in the offline mode.
If the devs thought the offline mode was good enough, they wouldn't have decided to make it an MMO component. They already know - the game isn't the same without people. They want people. And I think it is important they find their path and decide which it will be - a mixed online/offline Space Engineers or a next generation MMO. The game flourishes with more people, not less, with more interactions, not less, and to make the call to have players only able to experience this game with others would go a long way in solidifying the game's future, by allowing it to have roots and a history, fully built by organic interaction on the live server.
If the devs thought the offline mode was good enough, they wouldn't have decided to make it an MMO component. They already know - the game isn't the same without people. They want people. And I think it is important they find their path and decide which it will be - a mixed online/offline Space Engineers or a next generation MMO. The game flourishes with more people, not less, with more interactions, not less, and to make the call to have players only able to experience this game with others would go a long way in solidifying the game's future, by allowing it to have roots and a history, fully built by organic interaction on the live server.
I still think this would mainly be solved by just making it completely empty as I suggested before, no asteroids just space and your ship design. So you can basically test if it moves right and not much else, more like a blueprint editor than a singleplayer mode, that means you would still need to test it in multiplayer for combat and reliable crash tests
I agree to that extent, as long as players cannot spawn unlimited resources and ships to shoot it is fine; at that point it becomes a ship designer space to test fly and I don't see issues with that except if players can also cut their ship apart and so on. If players get the ability to test ship destruction, material strengths and pour over all the intricacies of the game in that environment, they will do so there, rather than in the live game, simply because it saves time. Where if instead the tasks of testing materials and testing how a ship responds to damage is done in the live game, the interactions spurred from those motivations can span the history of the game, where one person early on remembers your one prototype ship that looked awesome and managed to impact the larger scale conflicts.
yea, I mean.. I would rather just have a ship blueprint designer, I wouldn't care much for the damage or such rather than just "can it fly" bit. That's what would matter, the rest should be left for testing so that it brings people back into the multiplayer world over and over after making their designs so it won't be split.
If it's like this ^ I don't think there would be any bigger concerns
If it's like this ^ I don't think there would be any bigger concerns
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From what I remember, there were plans to have a sort of testing zone within the ship editor itself. Effectively, before you even have to spend any resources you can get the gist of how your ship performs, so there's not any particular benefit to doing this on or offline, people are going to test in a 'safe' environment either way. And it's kind of important to note that the 'singleplayer' mode isn't really singleplayer-- it's a private instance, which means it's so you can have a kind of temporary server for yourself and friends to be on. So for the people who don't really want to mess around with massive player counts but still want to play with their friends, this is their only option, and arbitrarily restricting this mode so that offline people can't see content faster than online folks is a bit silly.
Plus, the first people to see information about new content will almost always be dataminers in the first place, so stuff will be spoiled before the online folks get there anyway.
Plus, the first people to see information about new content will almost always be dataminers in the first place, so stuff will be spoiled before the online folks get there anyway.
I myself am not much for who sees this or that first in the multiplayer counter singleplayer, but I had described in a similar thread to this one how I think the singleplayer should act. But I believe having a smaller "battle zone" like such would be nice to have with friends also, if you just want to play out battles for a bit of fun!
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The problem is the testing. Beyond testing the basic functionality, the argument is not really the benefit of doing it offline, it's the value lost from the online game. By having this offline mode, you're taking gameplay away from the MMO portion. They can play with their friends online. Their activity would add to the economy, it will generate gameplay interactions for everyone, and the very designs would be different from having to test those ships with others around.
The offline players may in fact build bad ships because they don't get feedback from other players who might have caught their mistakes. They might miss out on useful tips, get inspired by ships of other people, or come up with ideas brought out by interacting with others. The starting stations will have safe zones, so there's no reason not to have them play online. I could understand if there was no safe place anywhere in the game, but there is.
So the "safe place" argument is null and void.
The offline players may in fact build bad ships because they don't get feedback from other players who might have caught their mistakes. They might miss out on useful tips, get inspired by ships of other people, or come up with ideas brought out by interacting with others. The starting stations will have safe zones, so there's no reason not to have them play online. I could understand if there was no safe place anywhere in the game, but there is.
So the "safe place" argument is null and void.
Those are some pretty good points. But from what I have read through these 2 or 3 threads my conclusion is to not have a sandbox and just wait to see what the general feedback of the game is. I myself have barely ever touched any MMO but I was instantly drawn to this because of its differences.
But I think it's a torn piece of a choice. As choosing to include a sandbox may make the player count and general experience of the main instance less consistent or numerous because more people would spend their time in a sandbox developing.
But I would like to suggest if anything, to have some way to integrate this private session in the main game if that makes sense, I don't know how it would be done but I don't mean a private instance. The main point of the SP version of starbase (For me) is the ship design, just taking your time designing a vessel without having to be interfered with, but that could be easily placed in the main instance by making use of safe zones.
This way I could as an individual take my time to develop my vessel without worrying someone is going to come to ruin my progress on this.
But I think it's a torn piece of a choice. As choosing to include a sandbox may make the player count and general experience of the main instance less consistent or numerous because more people would spend their time in a sandbox developing.
But I would like to suggest if anything, to have some way to integrate this private session in the main game if that makes sense, I don't know how it would be done but I don't mean a private instance. The main point of the SP version of starbase (For me) is the ship design, just taking your time designing a vessel without having to be interfered with, but that could be easily placed in the main instance by making use of safe zones.
This way I could as an individual take my time to develop my vessel without worrying someone is going to come to ruin my progress on this.
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They plan to have an in game editor, which is what you'll have in the offline mode. If you're at a starting station, you should be completely safe to design the ship in the editor once it is in the game. Even then, the thing that bugs us against is the free resources and extensive testing abilities.
Those tools should only be with the developers or if the game ends the ONLINE game and wants people still able to play the game to some degree. There's no reason to just hand players the tools to figure out the game with shortcuts or cheats as some might call them.
Those tools should only be with the developers or if the game ends the ONLINE game and wants people still able to play the game to some degree. There's no reason to just hand players the tools to figure out the game with shortcuts or cheats as some might call them.
But they will have to learn one way or the other, so why make it so much harder by not letting them test the more complicated methods? For instance doing a test on YOLOL where the entire ship may blow up if you try to execute it and then it takes you another week just to try again because you dont have the resources to try it out again
I mean, that's a bit discouraging from advancing in the game's technology
I mean, that's a bit discouraging from advancing in the game's technology
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I'm not against testing YOLOL offline per se, but only the scripts within the ship itself. It's when the scripts are actually doing something in a world, I think that it should be online, rather than in some offline mode. If you want to test YOLOL mining an asteroid, that can be done in the safe zone.
If you want to just test flight controls, doors, and other scripts for controlling your ship, then yeah, that's fine in offline. Interacting with a world, take it online, configuring your ship can be offline.
If you want to just test flight controls, doors, and other scripts for controlling your ship, then yeah, that's fine in offline. Interacting with a world, take it online, configuring your ship can be offline.
That's what I been arguing for more or less the entire time. instead of having it be a proper singleplayer small world restricted, unlike the multiplayer world. that it instead will just be a part of the main menu that is "Blueprint Editor" where you can create a station or ship and test out if the moveable parts work and if it moves. Nothing like an actual game world where you do much more than that.
That way you would still need to get the materials, build it and proof it in the multiplayer bit. So you can get a blueprint library of something to start off with and so forth.
That way you would still need to get the materials, build it and proof it in the multiplayer bit. So you can get a blueprint library of something to start off with and so forth.
As Starbase develops, there will be players assigned to guarding duty of stations not in a safezone. It might be a boring job. Unless there are things to do in the base. They could work there on a ship design terminal or 'dome', take care about metal refining (?), check the surroundings, etc.
I only see positive effects in keeping ship desiging online.
I only see positive effects in keeping ship desiging online.
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As long as there are things to do in the station then you'd be fine, I'm assuming it'll resort to roleplay for many players. But with a large enough playerbase I'd imagine stations would be fairly active so things would be happening all the time; it just may not be an invasion force knocking on your door.
I'm certainly hoping for roleplay elements, there are many times in all games when you are not sure what to do at the moment and then roleplay is a nice way to kick back and talk around with other robots, eventually coming up with some common goal between that group so they can get back to it. It's more important than it may seem (Was just an example. Many times RP is a core part of a game too)