Mega Exo skeletons? Viability, Possible uses.

Leftharted

Learned-to-sprint endo
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
23
#41
But the thing is no legs are being added, its this:
View attachment 729
Okay, but my point still stands... just superimpose legs for arms.... it's still going to be a monumental task (and therefore, accomplishment) to script ANY sort of minuscule movement...

I apologize, but based on your comments; I get the feeling that you aren't quite grasping just how hard this will be to build, and control.. and ignoring/forgoing the engineering required to make the arms articulate in Any way; means that it would essentially just be a ship that is shaped like a legless humanoid.. which would certainly be more cumbersome and ineffective than a typically shaped ship....

Of course, I could be extrapolating details... so I apologize if you have indeed considered all of this minutia.

Question; have you played Space Engineers?
 

AlexiyOne

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
85
#42
Okay, but my point still stands... just superimpose legs for arms.... it's still going to be a monumental task (and therefore, accomplishment) to script ANY sort of minuscule movement...

I apologize, but based on your comments; I get the feeling that you aren't quite grasping just how hard this will be to build, and control.. and ignoring/forgoing the engineering required to make the arms articulate in Any way; means that it would essentially just be a ship that is shaped like a legless humanoid.. which would certainly be more cumbersome and ineffective than a typically shaped ship....

Of course, I could be extrapolating details... so I apologize if you have indeed considered all of this minutia.

Question; have you played Space Engineers?
I have seen videos of it and yes I know you can make mechs and other vehicles, but I don know if you my way of how to made to the mechs work, you can use a control panel and some scripts to control the jets, and also the arms and weapons.
Not sure if we are thinking the same way of making mechs, and yes I know it will be hard, but the outcome will be a new technology that can be used for mining asteroids with a mech with mining lasers, or a mech that is a mobile protection suit for exoskeletons that's small and compact. Yes they are probably hard to develop, but factories can make them very easy to build.
 

PopeUrban

Veteran endo
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Messages
140
#43
I have seen videos of it and yes I know you can make mechs and other vehicles, but I don know if you my way of how to made to the mechs work, you can use a control panel and some scripts to control the jets, and also the arms and weapons.
Not sure if we are thinking the same way of making mechs, and yes I know it will be hard, but the outcome will be a new technology that can be used for mining asteroids with a mech with mining lasers, or a mech that is a mobile protection suit for exoskeletons that's small and compact. Yes they are probably hard to develop, but factories can make them very easy to build.
I'm a 3d animator by trade. I have actually beein in the position of needing to script arm rigs. Imagining attempting to do it with the restrictions of YOLOL makes me want to cry.

Moving a mining laser to the left with a spaceship:
2 thrusters controlled by the FCU that must be present in every vehicle anyway, to turn the ship and reposition the static laser.
Reaction time: instant.
Result: you mined more rock to the left.

Moving a mining laser to the left on a robot arm:
Multiple YOLOL chips to track the rotation of multiple gimbals, use those rotations as inputs to appropriately modify the rotation of down the arm.
Reaction time: 2+ seconds per input given the complex maths involved and the speed limit on YOLOL execution.
Result: you mined more rock to the left.

There is no situation in which using a robot arm is more efficient for any task you need to perform in Starbase than pointing that same tool on a free rotating ship, or a limited rotation turret. None. Zero. Robot arms are useful in manufacturing not because of their speed, but because of their precision for repetitive actions and their ability to be constructed once and used for various assembly tasks. Pop off the tool head, change out the YOLOL chip and you're eady for it to do a whole different thing on your assembly line. They're adaptable, but not in a "spur of the moment" way.

The problem with attempting to use them for the jobs a ship or truck would do is that those jobs prioritize both reaction speed and versatility, two things that a YOLOL speed robotic limb is terrible at. Your reacting time is poor because of all the time you're spending translating operator commands to arm movement at the hard speed limit of YOLOL. Your versatility is poor because while this low speed arm may be OK at mining stationary rocks, it's going to be pretty useless for aiming weapons at that speed.

I fully support your dream to make cool robots but I really think you need to abandon the idea that they'll be useful robots. Unless you can name one thing your truck with arms could do more efficiently than a much simpler vehicle you may need to come to terms with the fact your creations exist primarily for entertainment and advertising purposes.
 
Last edited:

Amos.37

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
154
#44
A game limitations question that I've been wondering a while: Are power cables flexible/moveable? As in can I set up a tractor beam on rails that remains connected via a power cable even as the rails are moving? Or an arm that moves without breaking the power cables that are supplying it with power?
This has huge implications as to what can be built, both in mech design and general assembly line designs.

Also my background is health rather than programming, but from an anatomy point of view, arms are super complicated! To make something with even remotely human levels of maneuverability requires so many moving parts. You could use the robot arms showed in feature vids, but those look slow and fragile.

And to mirror what others have already said, while a working mech would be awesome, the sheer complexity and number of moving parts means it will never be viable in combat. Way too fragile.
Sure you can add armour, but that reduces maneuverability, and once that's gone, congratulations, you've just made an overly complicated tank.
 

Leftharted

Learned-to-sprint endo
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
23
#45
A game limitations question that I've been wondering a while: Are power cables flexible/moveable? As in can I set up a tractor beam on rails that remains connected via a power cable even as the rails are moving? Or an arm that moves without breaking the power cables that are supplying it with power?
This has huge implications as to what can be built, both in mech design and general assembly line designs.

Also my background is health rather than programming, but from an anatomy point of view, arms are super complicated! To make something with even remotely human levels of maneuverability requires so many moving parts. You could use the robot arms showed in feature vids, but those look slow and fragile.

And to mirror what others have already said, while a working mech would be awesome, the sheer complexity and number of moving parts means it will never be viable in combat. Way too fragile.
Sure you can add armour, but that reduces maneuverability, and once that's gone, congratulations, you've just made an overly complicated tank.
I concur!

.. and have pondered the same question. I'm hoping that rotors/rails have a socket so that power can be transferred across grids. I assume this is true, based on some of the videos FB has posted. I recall seeing one on rails that appeared to have a socket for power on the head. Also, I assume the rotary gimbaled turrets shown in the dev video(s) are transfering power to their respective extensions.

Of course, I could be wrong; since my only input is the brief (but awesome) videos as well as the wiki, which seems a bit vague atm; albeit understandably.

And since several are expressing RL experience, I'm a quality process engineer/auditor for aerospace CNC, with a large background in GD&T (geometric dimensions & tolerancing). Even with that said, I (think) I can wrap my head around a concept/design, and the required math; but havent a clue on how to "glue" it all together with YOLOL, yet. I'll likely be spending hundred of hours testing designs, and tinkering with ideas, to plausibly compartmentalize into a decent mech one day...

However once released; I'm looking forward to finding a faction of like-minded nerds who will slowly but surely mastermind the unofficial Starbase Rock'em Sock'em Mecha Arena!!

For fun'n'gambling, of course. ;)
 

AlexiyOne

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
85
#46
I'm a 3d animator by trade. I have actually beein in the position of needing to script arm rigs. Imagining attempting to do it with the restrictions of YOLOL makes me want to cry.

Moving a mining laser to the left with a spaceship:
2 thrusters controlled by the FCU that must be present in every vehicle anyway, to turn the ship and reposition the static laser.
Reaction time: instant.
Result: you mined more rock to the left.

Moving a mining laser to the left on a robot arm:
Multiple YOLOL chips to track the rotation of multiple gimbals, use those rotations as inputs to appropriately modify the rotation of down the arm.
Reaction time: 2+ seconds per input given the complex maths involved and the speed limit on YOLOL execution.
Result: you mined more rock to the left.

There is no situation in which using a robot arm is more efficient for any task you need to perform in Starbase than pointing that same tool on a free rotating ship, or a limited rotation turret. None. Zero. Robot arms are useful in manufacturing not because of their speed, but because of their precision for repetitive actions and their ability to be constructed once and used for various assembly tasks. Pop off the tool head, change out the YOLOL chip and you're eady for it to do a whole different thing on your assembly line. They're adaptable, but not in a "spur of the moment" way.

The problem with attempting to use them for the jobs a ship or truck would do is that those jobs prioritize both reaction speed and versatility, two things that a YOLOL speed robotic limb is terrible at. Your reacting time is poor because of all the time you're spending translating operator commands to arm movement at the hard speed limit of YOLOL. Your versatility is poor because while this low speed arm may be OK at mining stationary rocks, it's going to be pretty useless for aiming weapons at that speed.

I fully support your dream to make cool robots but I really think you need to abandon the idea that they'll be useful robots. Unless you can name one thing your truck with arms could do more efficiently than a much simpler vehicle you may need to come to terms with the fact your creations exist primarily for entertainment and advertising purposes.
Will see what I can do, but not trying to leave this idea is silly as it could be very useful
 

Leftharted

Learned-to-sprint endo
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
23
#47
Will see what I can do, but not trying to leave this idea is silly as it could be very useful
They will certainly be Cool, and I commend your intentions, as it is a Great goal to have.

BUT, the point we're trying to make, is that it is silly to believe they will be useful.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing what you come up with, if you'll allow me. ;)
 

AlexiyOne

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
85
#48
They will certainly be Cool, and I commend your intentions, as it is a Great goal to have.

BUT, the point we're trying to make, is that it is silly to believe they will be useful.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing what you come up with, if you'll allow me. ;)
Of course, I would love to show that mechs aren't useless as 99% of people think
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
10
#49
This guy gets the ACTUAL use case for mechs. Trying to use them for practical applications is probably going to be morettrouble than its worth, but building them simply for the sheer wow factor, NTM advertising your engineering and YOLOL prowess is totally valid. its like concept cars. They're not supposed to be practical. They exist solely to psh boundaries nd in doing so stumble across conecepts that might actually be applicable to something practical. Your gimbal robot boxing arm might be stupid to put on a mining robot, but the design of the shoulder might actually be a really good rotor for weapons or mining equipment on a more practical vehicle.

After all, if I see a dude that can make a breakdancing robot I'm pretty sure that dude can make pretty bitchin' tank and I'm also pretty sure I wanna see what he did to build the robot.
Is this the start of a robot boxing league im hearing.
 

Amos.37

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
154
#50
Is this the start of a robot boxing league im hearing.
Boxing? Why so simple?
I'm picturing guns, mining lasers, maybe rockets.
This is mechanised death fights! I want splash zones to be a necessary addition! Just watching should be dangerous!

On a side note, and I don't think this would work but someone's got to try it anyway, improvised mace using a tractor beam and a small asteroid.
 
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