Questionable localization of "pvp station around moon"

[Tomasz]

For anyone not on topic that pvp station on PTu is placed 300 km away from warp gate on opposite side of belt.
Why would anyoone not interested in pvp even come there to provide any legit targets for ganking?
Without unarmed tarkets o gank pvpers aren't going to go there either.

Looks like this "pvp" station is just attempt to remove pvpers from actual routes. Placing it there is not going to give us much needed hotspot for pvp - for that it has to be attractive for NON-pvpers to provide targets... aegesium that is also closer to the gate is not going to attract any miners that can jsut go thru gate to sell on origin.Since it isn't even further away in this situation.

 

[Womble]

Your decidedly limited definition of PvP aside, further segregation of the population is undesirable.

 

[Captain Garp]

Yeah i'm not sure how much of a good idea this actually is. I think PvP may be kind of shit out of luck until early next year when Radiation comes out, I want to be more optimistic but with no reward, no organic way of it happening, and nothing to fight over it's hard to see this bandaid fixing that wound.

 

[Womble]

Yeah i'm not sure how much of a good idea this actually is. I think PvP may be kind of shit out of luck until early next year when Radiation comes out, I want to be more optimistic but with no reward, no organic way of it happening, and nothing to fight over it's hard to see this bandaid fixing that wound.

It might at least be a place where "ship concepts" can be tested out and FrozenByte can see if *their* concept of how PvP engagements between ostensible peers might work bears any relationship to realitty. I'm sure they're gagging for such datapoints.

 

[Venombrew]

i think one of the biggest problems with people and pvp in this game, is average person thinks about it from a solo-small crew concept. game is not designed(while yes it can be played with a small or solo crew) for small scale. look at the size of the universe we are in, distance from each moon, the adding of cap ships(civ and military), growth in stations, siege wars, the way the distance between player stations work, ingame tag editor, etc, etc, etc. the game is being designed in a large scale with a hopeful growth of a population of players once it gets closer to what a person would consider a 1.0 release. unless your with a large company or faction, your experience is going to be pretty limited.

just like the new ptu pvp station, thats not for small crews and carebears, while yes we smaller crews(including me) can go there and do stuff, its more gonna be for these large factions like The Collective, Empire, Kingdom, that has 100s of military based players looking to duke it out. And FB has said many times over, during these kind of conflicts destroyed ships, salvaged goods including t3 parts are gonna be gathered, taken to the pvp station, and sold at reduced price by players. When we are able to take ownership of ships, where do you think this is gonna happen more frequently at, and where do you think they are gonna be sold more at? my guess would be near and around the pvp zone station.

In most online games, the pvp servers are always overpopulated, even know you can be killed moment you walk out of town. and do you honestly think pvpers dont farm too? pvpers tend usually like to farm in hot zones because of the excitement of risk and reward, its why they are there. not everything thing they are going to add is always going to be directed at every single player, this here is more for larger companies with muscle to flex against other large companies.

EDIT: as for large companies, right now there is 3, Empire, Kingdom which are both dev ran, and The Collective, in which both of these factions are always on guard over. The Collective is a player faction, many more player factions are growing in size, if you really want to experience more of this game, i recommend hitting up a larger crew.

 

[Tomasz]

I was in 300 pepple company up untill recently and people got fed up with no pvp hotspots, and no way of catching unwilling targets.That stations is suposed to bandade lack of reasons to pvp, yet it is placed away from any usefull routes and locations doing exactly opposite of its declared purpose.
What exactly are you commenting? This station is not to suplement state of the game that it is going to be in 2 years.It is hotfix for current problems.And it's location makes it ineffective.

 

[Venombrew]

What exactly are you commenting?

thought it was quite obvious, this is a pvp zone, for people who are dedicated pvpers, reason the zone is so far out so player stations don't overlap in safe zones and use that as advantage like its done now on the border near origin stations. gives much more room for civ cap ships and miliary ships to move around on warps and military ships to engage siege wars on player stations in the pvp zone. pretty obvious right? why would you put a pvp zone near the safe zone to allow for overlap? or you get what players do now, run out so far shoot shoot shoot, oh no im scared and go 500m back into safety.

 

[Womble]

I was in 300 pepple company up untill recently and people got fed up with no pvp hotspots, and no way of catching unwilling targets.That stations is suposed to bandade lack of reasons to pvp, yet it is placed away from any usefull routes and locations doing exactly opposite of its declared purpose.
What exactly are you commenting? This station is not to suplement state of the game that it is going to be in 2 years.It is hotfix for current problems.And it's location makes it ineffective.

Your prejudices are showing. You keep assuming and asserting that PvP players only want unarmed targets to shoot at, and that they aren't prepared to do anything but shoot. If there are any resources near the PvP station, and from the announcement, there are going to be ("a place to PvP, mine and design without having to travel miles" is a paraphrase of what they announced), PvPers will go and mine them, And fight over them.

Your problem with the concept appears to be that non-PvPers won't go there, because there'e nothing more for them there than there is anywhere else. Even assuming that this is true, and I think Venombrew's point about what'll be for sale there at knock-down prices bears considering, it's irrelevant. Either there are enough PvP-horny endos out there to make the game work as envisioned, or there aren't. And if there are, a good chunk of them will head over to the PvP station, to get more of what they're looking for. Which is not, just so we're clear, helpless targets. I'm not saying it's going to happen overnight, but if the game as an arena for conflict has a future, it'll happen, and it'll provide good data for players and devs both.

 

[Venombrew]

@Womble do you think the AH on that station will thrive more if it becomes a pvp hotzone? i think it will, ore, ships parts, and weapons of all types be on high demand there. at least one would assume if it is a populate pvp zone.

 

[Womble]

@Womble do you think the AH on that station will thrive more if it becomes a pvp hotzone? i think it will, ore, ships parts, and weapons of all types be on high demand there. at least one would assume if it is a populate pvp zone.

I agree with you that it could be a goldmine for the right kind of wheeler-dealer But that's PvP, too. Different kind of player is happy with Market PvP, but we need all sorts!

 

[Tomasz]

It is 300k km away from a gate thst also requires time to travel - and warp core.AND it has nothing more valuable that isn't avaible in more convinient location.
Players who want to fight other fighters, can simply turn on their transponder o nmarkka and leave SF.That localization is not a hot spot it is as far away form any hot spots as possible.

 

[DankHoneyOil]

Why do you only want to fight unwilling and unarmed targets? I highly doubt the game will cater to that idea, that's a good way for them to kill the game for sure.

Ganking unwilling and unarmed players is not pvp, it's just ganking. That kind of gameplay lacks longevity, not a good idea to base a game around ganking unwilling players.

 

[Tomasz]

This is called organic pvp and it is exactly what this game needs.There had been many games that got killed by catering to pvpe players that jsut want to be safe.Then after squeezing all rational pvp form the game , when there is no risk involved in getting pve stuff, and NO economy, becouse noone needs a second ship when they never loose theirs.Those pve players get boed of mining / bulding and want to fight only to discover there is no fucking reason to fight becouse it makes no economic sense.
And game dies.
Every fucking game dies out by removing organic pvp and catoring to this stipid idea that for some reason players who choose to be safe can get everything while also being safe.And pvpers are the ponly ones taking risks and costs.
ALSo unwiling targets can FUCKING ARM THEMSELVES ! or get escort.that jsut adds to a gameplay.Some company members can mine, others escort them.As it is now noone needs guns or escort while getting ores.

 

[Womble]

This is called organic pvp and it is exactly what this game needs.

Dead wrong. For now.

What this game needs is a place where PvPers can get down-and-dirty on short notice, on a regular basis, while not interfering with the base business of gathering materials. Just so the actual meat of the game can get tested on a significant scale.

Just because "organic" sounds a bit like "gank" doesn't mean it's related, etymologically.

Currently, there's no economic reason to fight because there's no place that's more important than any other. But this game is, in case you hadn't noticed, not finished yet so making predictions about a long term economy based on current conditions is pretty futile, no? Looking forward, you have to take into account the devs' intent. They intend to make mining outside the safe zone vulnerable to PvP via the detection mechanism. But if PvP blows chunks because it's not been tested, that will kill the game as dead as a borked economic model.

Resource hotspots are coming, those will be flashpoints, if people actually want to fight.

[QUOTE="Tomasz, post: 19450, member: 23421
ALSo unwiling targets can FUCKING ARM THEMSELVES ! or get escort.that jsut adds to a gameplay.Some company members can mine, others
escort them.As it is now noone needs guns or escort while getting ores.[/QUOTE]
The problem with your attitude in this thread is that every time you mention PvP, you start with "attacking helpless targets". That's not the entirety of PvP. While there are people who hope only for that kind of encounter, them with the guns and the other guy with the target painted on 'em, I get the feeling that there's a healthy population of endos who wish everyone had a six-gun on their hip. So making PvP equivalent with "ganking" is selling PvP seriously short.

 

[Tomasz]

Womble
This station is created to Give Pvpers something they don;t have without it.It is explicitly stated.
PLayers who want to openly fight other players who want to openly fight can(and often do) either stage battles or just turn on transponder and just fly outside of safezone on Markka.There is nothing that needs to be added for this kind of pvp.
What is placing this "pvp station" giving pvpers that is not already there without traveling thru gate and 300 km away from anything else?
What is placing that station 300 km away form anything else giving or what problem is it solving?

 

[Vorg]

Maybe something is needed aling the lines of what sony had in their Star Wars game. A pvp flag. Yo could set it and do pvp, but you were also a fair target. It also had some sort of cool down timer so you couldn't change to pvp, go cause trouble and then switch back.

 

[J.D.]

To put this plainly, ganking is fun.. very fun. i honestly do not even begin to think about caring about what the community seems to think about it. i honestly dont give a shit. im here for my fun. not yours. I think we all have that same attitude. We play a game for our personal enjoyment... if you dont like what i do, thats fine, but it wont change it. ever. In fact, the community that fights against this play style just makes me wanna do it more, with a sense of resentment for their disrespect. So it gives me a strong urge to dish out some retribution for speaking out to take away my personal enjoyment of the game, especially since i completely and totally support the pve content of the player base who does not want to pvp, and chooses to stay within the safe zone. thats fine. I want to see the game have those two work together. So, i have nothing to say about taking away a safe zone.. some do, but by opinion, i think alot of us pvp guys can agree its needed, and we have one. So, no biggie. there is a safe zone for players who do not wish to engage in pvp, and also new players.... see here from the "horses mouth"

It's all outlined pretty clearly in the first post, but I'll explain the reasoning also:

• Safe zone is for new players or those who do not seek conflict. It's in any case a safe area, including all deception to lure people out from there.
• Non-safe zone is basically the entire universe. It is not safe, in fact it's guaranteed loss of a ship. If you venture there and don't face a single player an asteroid will still destroy your ship. We promise a total loss for everyone taking the risk outside the safe zone, and we don't care does that happen by players or by fuel running out.
• Social engineering rules are there to prevent luring people out of safe zones, or to prevent stealing stations, bases or capital ships via deception. Social engineering rules do not cover faction espionage, but they are designed to protect pve players. So social engineering rules are mainly there to block bypassing safe zone rules.

TL;DR Safe Zones are safe, we don't allow any technicality or other trick to bypass them. In other hand, universe outside the safe zone is supposed to kill everyone.

This is saying that basically anything goes outside the safe zone..... So, we have one extreme of safety for one group, and the freedom in another area that the group like myself wants. The minute you take away that freedom from the non safe zone, it starts impacting the pvp crowd. no one wants an "opt in" pvp mode in starbase from the pvp community. that would be horribly lame, and i for one, would not play. This game would not survive without keeping that content in, because the economy would fail, where no one is buying to replace anything....Hell, the very marketing material they chose to use showed alot of conflict.
I believe everyone knows the dangers of outside the safe zone. your mining ships need armor, and you need to carry weapons to defend yourself. dont like it? thats fine, im still going to shoot you. i really dont care. its your choice to defend yourself. This is the content the pvp players want. its half the game. pvp creates an economic balance where players will need more ships, station parts, weapons, etc. Also, as you see in this quote, Lauri promises "we promise" your loss of ship, and they "do not care" how that happens, asteroid, or player. deal with it.
Ive been playing albion lately. it has the same idea. the economy thrives because players constantly need more gear, consumables, etc because they lose them when they die. its a loop. I also think the devs are smart enough to acknowledge this extremely simple concept.

Today i just read about some mechanics that are coming to help us find targets easier coming later this year.. this will help pvp alot. But, it also can be used for miners to keep an eye out around them for the bad guys. So, it has some balance as long as you're not out mining lazy. But, itll be nice to see.