Ship Despawn: Dynamic Ship Graveyards, A Thinkpiece Suggestion on Creating Exploration Opportunities

Burnside

Master endo
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
308
#1
Given that, in general, wrecks despawn within 1-7 days and some wrecks are said to not despawn if they're big enough, perhaps a mechanic could be devised that causes any surviving wreckage in an area (several dozen km) to slowly coalesce into a larger cloud of debris when players aren't around. So, let's say that after a week of isolation, ship/station debris that doesn't meet the criteria for automatic despawn begins looking for other wreckage, let's say a bubble 1km in radius, increasing in size by 1km per day 5km/week. Debris checks its surroundings once per week to keep server loads to a minimum and give everyone ample opportunity to find them between each detection tick or "Graveyard Tick". If debris finds another piece of wreckage inside its bubble, it moves 1km closer so long as no players are in render range, if both pieces of wreckage are within each other's detection radius they both move 1km closer to each other, if multiple pieces of wreckage are detected the detecting piece moves 1km closer to the imaginary centerpoint of those pieces (ED: after moving the detection bubble ceases growing as long as at least one other wreck is within range). Once they are within 1km a fast tick sequence kicks in, the debris only checks within a 1km bubble once per day and moves at a rate of 10 meters per day, all objects within ~50m are considered a single piece of wreckage according to this system and, after a week of having become a single graveyard-entity, begin the radius check anew from the starting 1km radius. To prevent these graveyards from obstructing regular player traffic, debris will avoid stations in an area equal to twice the size of its safezone.

This rough draft model gives us several benefits:
1) wreckage will move over time, so even if its original position is lost there's an increasing chance for players to find it as it moves around and potentially passes through transit zones
2) most wreckage will tend to accumulate in the center of activity zones, namely warzones where many wrecks will be created inside of a relatively small pocket of space; this has the added benefit of causing ships lost on the edges of populated space to tend to work their way into more populated areas
3) the one-week tick period, merge, and radius reset functions result really old graveyards will tend to grow in size and pull in other smaller wrecks without moving as much, so even if it isn't stripped bare once discovered, players can count on known graveyards to stay in roughly the same general area of space- ultimately meaning a surviving graveyard is a constantly renewable source of exploration opportunities
4) because graveyards will not perform a detection tick if they're inside of a player's render bubble, but other graveyards that detect it will still try to move closer to it, graveyards can be exploited by a fleet or station to create a "wreck vacuum"- alternately, being rendered can completely deflag a graveyard and require it be abandoned for a whole week to reenter the system as a "wreck" in the system's eyes to prevent this kind of exploit, whichever seems more thematic, however, in either case, establishing a presence near a graveyard does lock it down, allowing the resources to go from an exploration feature in the 4X strategy dynamic (i.e. eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate) into an exploitation feature which itself encourages both expansion to lock down such discovered graveyards and extermination to defend or conquer claims on them, incidentally feeding new wrecks into the system to sustain the existence of graveyards as whole.

Credit of Inspiration goes to Fingle's post on the Exploration Problem

ED: a few timing errors corrected from switching the main detection period from days to weeks

A/N- On grouping wrecks within 50m of each other as a single graveyard-entity: this should create a nice cluster of wrecks that is visually pleasing and provides ample space for fighters to engage within and dissuades larger vessels from entering at high speed while also creating interesting navigation/search environments for infantry
 
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PopeUrban

Veteran endo
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Messages
140
#2
Its well thought out, but the problem with wrecks (and why they're cleared from space) has more to do with the inability to store/track an infinite volume of data than it does with actually cleaning space. Wrecks aren't being despawned for aesthetic reasons. They're being despawned for server performance reasons.

Massive ship graveyards tracking and moving those wrecks to a central resource hungry position with such a specific simulation essentially removes all of the benefits of despawning wrecks. It doesn't seem very likely a concept for this reason.

A better way to go about this may be to forego the whole concept of massive graveyards and in stead just cache the last N number of cleared wrecks, then randomly spawn those wrecks in the travel path of players that have been on a constant vector for X time. This would liven up the long straight stretches of empty space a bit without also spawning an impractical and potentially game breaking amount of wrecks all at one time.
 

Burnside

Master endo
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
308
#3
Hmm, so basically the graveyard becomes something of a floating instance/encounter and is composed of all wrecks that have yet to be despawned? You might even be able to bring players across the belt into it by hiding the instance boundary inside of a nebula, so any player going deep enough in has a chance to spawn into the graveyard instance- it'd create some weird hyperspace anomaly by being able to be accessed from nearly anywhere which could cause load-in/log-out bugs, but it's an interesting way to tackle the thought experiment.
 

Caddrel

Learned-to-turn-off-magboots endo
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
46
#4
My starting view is that one man's trash is another man's treasure.

I would hope, and expect, there's a technical solution that would allow wrecks and debris to persist without ever needing despawning. I understand the developers have said that every asteroid in the belt is tracked in some fashion.

The wider question is why to keep them around. I would argue that they offer exploration possibilities, and the foundation of an in-game profession (scavenging). They offer persistence and history to a world that aims to be built and inhabited by the players.

They wouldn't be generic NPC wrecks after all; each would be a marker of a player story that occurred within the world. They add interest and fun, and they would be a game design foundation that could be built on in the future (such as the ship graveyard idea Burnside suggested).

If a battle happened along a well-travelled route, would players need to be paid or enlisted to help clear the wrecks and minor debris to allow safe travel?

One of my enduring memories in EVE is stumbling upon player's hidden stashes of secured cans and other smaller ships, hidden in in deep space years before scan probing became possible, and long abandoned.
 

SubtleSloth

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
54
#5
I absolutely love the idea of wrecks being maintained in the universe if there is any possible way to do it without destroying server performance. I’m sure there is some way, but I feel like it would be a semi hefty investment on side of FB due to the amount of calculating that would be occurring. Who knows, maybe our initial investment in the game will allow FB to get some decent hardware upgrades and maybe it will be possible in the future 😁
 
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