Ship Warp & Heat (About Starbase Development News - April 2024)

Tris

Endokid
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Jan 23, 2021
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3
#1
I can understand the idea of warp travel for normal ships with markers and understand that this brings more action back into the game. And that's right, the idea of making target coordinates visible is good and a game changer!

But I think it's wrong that the idea of heat mechanics and the location of heat sources will probably be sacrificed for this. Especially when you consider how many ships have fallen over the edge with the introduction of the heat mechanic and are now unusable, now absolutely pointless in retrospect.

In my opinion, it would be much better if the heat radar was still implemented and the planned warp triggered a corresponding immense (measurable over 300km +-, the closer the more precise) heating at the target coordinates while the warp jump was being loaded.

In my opinion, that would be an ideal combination of the two ideas. The idea of heat and its influence is a clever idea that should not be abandoned.
 
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ZombieMouse

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#2
I suspect this change was purely practical from a development point-of-view, because they lack the resources to finish development of the heat tracking system.
 

pavvvel

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#4
It is very important that the warp of ordinary ships does not turn into a pvp evasion mechanism - it is necessary that the damaged ship cannot make a jump at all. Otherwise, there will be no chance to play a role (not just to blow up his ship before he has time to make a jump, but to try to interact, talk, bargain or just stretch the pleasure). In addition, I already see in advance that players will build bases so that they can jump into or near a safe zone (to their station or the station of a friend/clan) and then there will be no way to intercept such a ship at all! How then to catch traders or miners? Or catch a battle fleet on the march? It will turn stupidly into a "jumping game". There must be significant limitations for this warp. I am one of those who are against this mechanics. It is very difficult to implement it in a way that does not kill pvp. I'm talking about live pvp, random, not boring duels. Having a warp, the player will not need to worry about his safety at all.
 

Colonkin

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#5
It is very important that the warp of ordinary ships does not turn into a pvp evasion mechanism - it is necessary that the damaged ship cannot make a jump at all. Otherwise, there will be no chance to play a role (not just to blow up his ship before he has time to make a jump, but to try to interact, talk, bargain or just stretch the pleasure). In addition, I already see in advance that players will build bases so that they can jump into or near a safe zone (to their station or the station of a friend/clan) and then there will be no way to intercept such a ship at all! How then to catch traders or miners? Or catch a battle fleet on the march? It will turn stupidly into a "jumping game". There must be significant limitations for this warp. I am one of those who are against this mechanics. It is very difficult to implement it in a way that does not kill pvp. I'm talking about live pvp, random, not boring duels. Having a warp, the player will not need to worry about his safety at all.
In fact, it will simply achieve this result. It is enough to return fast travel to the ships (which were needed to pass the gate) and add charging time for the jump accumulator. This will force pauses between jumps. But there is also a flip side to the coin. Just as a predator should be given a chance to catch its prey, so the prey should be given a chance to escape. Naturally, everything should depend on tactics. If people build bases for rewarp, that's their choice. And they will spend resources on it. The beaters will have interdictors that interrupt the warp. (It seems like this question was already asked to the developers and they answered in the affirmative). Therefore, even jumping between rewarp bases can be more dangerous. Because the route is known in advance.
 

J.D.

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#6
Kinda think that the time it takes to engage a warp is a huge thing to take into account. One thing I like about it, is that small ships are lighter, meaning they can warp away quicker than your big box meta ships. And arming the ship with a bunch of weapons calls for power, more power creates larger ships, so there is a balance, I think.. Also works the same for large mining ships, or transports. The time it takes for them to get away is slower than a small fighter ship. This opens up all sorts of things. Some miners and transports might wanna have escorts and such. Whether the players do this or not, not sure. Another good reason to be a part of a nation, or company. Having allies, and a part of space that nation controls for more safety in numbers. The small fighter ships are more fragile, so it can be easier to defend against if you have those small gun placements on the ship for someone to fire at an on coming fighter attacking a larger ship. At least, this is what I’m seeing as a result.
 
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La_fleur_

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Aug 19, 2021
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#7
Thermal mechanics is needed. After the warp jump, the ship has enough time to escape and it will be difficult to find the ship. The heat trace could tell us where the ship went. And that would be absolutely fine. There is a victim, there is a hunter, there is a product of fuel combustion. However, with the introduction of such mechanics, fuel improvement systems should be available to shield the heat trace and gorenje residue. The more engines a ship has, the higher its heat footprint
 

J.D.

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#8
Thermal mechanics is needed. After the warp jump, the ship has enough time to escape and it will be difficult to find the ship. The heat trace could tell us where the ship went. And that would be absolutely fine. There is a victim, there is a hunter, there is a product of fuel combustion. However, with the introduction of such mechanics, fuel improvement systems should be available to shield the heat trace and gorenje residue. The more engines a ship has, the higher its heat footprint
This idea I’ve heard of something similar. I think originally the devs were planning on each material having strengths, and weaknesses. We already see some in the density, armor value, etc. I think one was heat resistant, etc. I haven’t seen this discussed in a while, maybe just on the back burner for a bit. This was around the time Lauri was talking about toxic clouds found in space, and needing a certain type of material to be able to fly through it. Not only that, but to have the ship completely closed off with this material, including a door. Thought that was pretty cool. An armor that’s heat resistant, could also be a good laser defender. But poor against kinetic weapons. Something like that.
 

pavvvel

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#9
It is necessary that when charging a warp jump, there should be some kind of indication, a glow around the ship or even a semblance of a visual of the curvature of space, as well as sound. This is so that you can easily notice when another ship is charging the jump. This will greatly help in mass battles: seeing that one of the enemies charges the jump, you will need teamwork to try to blow it up as quickly as possible. This will help in roleplay: let's say you attacked a miner and do not blow it up, but enter into a dialogue with the purpose of payment or for him to sing a Britney Spears song - "Oops I did it again", if there is no indication of warp charging, he will simply run away. And if there is an indication, then the player will have to play a role-playing game with you, or choose death. In addition, it is necessary that the charging speed of the jump increases in case the ship is damaged
 

Colonkin

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#10
It is necessary that when charging a warp jump, there should be some kind of indication, a glow around the ship or even a semblance of a visual of the curvature of space, as well as sound. This is so that you can easily notice when another ship is charging the jump. This will greatly help in mass battles: seeing that one of the enemies charges the jump, you will need teamwork to try to blow it up as quickly as possible. This will help in roleplay: let's say you attacked a miner and do not blow it up, but enter into a dialogue with the purpose of payment or for him to sing a Britney Spears song - "Oops I did it again", if there is no indication of warp charging, he will simply run away. And if there is an indication, then the player will have to play a role-playing game with you, or choose death. In addition, it is necessary that the charging speed of the jump increases in case the ship is damaged
Interesting idea.
And a beautiful idea.

Of course, I would prefer to knock down the fee from the miner under the interdictor field. So that there are no bad thoughts of running away.

But here's another question. We have decided on the animation of charging the warp jump field.
But what to do when the field is already charged?
Those. They accept you already ready to run away. In this case, near some WARP emitters on the ship there should already be some kind of glow or some other type of indication of a charged jump.
 

Askannon

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#11
But what to do when the field is already charged?
Those. They accept you already ready to run away. In this case, near some WARP emitters on the ship there should already be some kind of glow or some other type of indication of a charged jump.
IIRC Lauri wrote in the (essentially) Q&A after the video you can't move too far away from where you start the warp.
So the only ones who could precharge a warp are miners at a T10 rock. Which could even be a valid strategy if the precharge doesn't take many resources (even if one that announces your existence and your escape route).
 

pavvvel

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#12
Do you mean that you will need to stop or almost stop to charge the warp? This is very good. This is a good indicator that the player is trying to escape. But animation is also needed, of course.

I really hope that the personal warp will not kill pvp: It is still unclear what will prevent the player from making a path by jumping between his/her friendly stations? If, say, a 300km jump, surely someone in the clan has a station for jumping and refueling. How to intercept the ship of such a player? It will be absolutely impossible. I really want to know the opinion of the developers.

If it were high online now, the game would already suffer due to 100% secure AFK mining near the ground station. There are easy ways to prevent your AFK miner from flying out of the safe zone. It is necessary that it is impossible to extract resources in the safe zone of the ground station, as well as within a radius of 5 km - this is necessary in order not to break the adequate gameplay of "jumping into the safe zone" at the first sign of danger. Otherwise, miners will ride around the border of the safe zone, it will look as shabby, flawed and ugly as possible.

The essence of all of the above is that there should be no safe jumps (it is not known when we will be given the opportunity to intercept ships in the warp), there should be no safe mining. There must always be a risk to get a reward - this is the basis of safe gameplay. And now we see that due to safe-AFK-mining, players make ships for several thousand boxes (a ship without engines, just a warehouse) and dozens of such resource-filled ships are kept at a ground station. It's killing the game.
I am not against AFK mining if it is outside the safe zone of the planetary station.
 
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Colonkin

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Apr 29, 2022
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#13
The essence of all of the above is that there should be no safe jumps (it is not known when we will be given the opportunity to intercept ships in the warp), there should be no safe mining. There must always be a risk to get a reward - this is the basis of safe gameplay. And now we see that due to safe-AFK-mining, players make ships for several thousand boxes (a ship without engines, just a warehouse) and dozens of such resource-filled ships are kept at a ground station. It's killing the game.
I am not against AFK mining if it is outside the safe zone of the planetary station.
I disagree on this issue.
There must be a safe zone and safe mining of basic resources in this zone.
Just so that in the event of the death of an owl or a ship, the player can restore his ship, money (and if the ship is large enough, then digging the vokarium and bastium will not be fast at all). Otherwise, the very first trip of a beginner outside the safe zone will stop his flight in the form of debris and he will never return to the game after such a failure and high risk without the ability to avoid it. Unfortunately, all PVP games are designed in such a way that if you do not control the behavior of some players using a safe zone, then there will always be a bad person who will kill newcomers at the respawn and get frags on the initial laborers.
Now mining is safe only because of the large universe and low online. Even on the border of the safe zone there is almost no one. This was not the case before.
The player can fly out of the safe zone to mine and do it safely in a deserted area. But for this he will spend a lot of time and resources.
The player can announce himself by jumping, quickly cover 300 km and everyone will see it, or sneak quietly with the transponder turned off so that no one sees))).
In general, I like the risk/reward concept of EVE. Here the size of the safe zone is much smaller than there.
 

pavvvel

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#14
I wrote about stations on the surface of planets.
Remove resources from the safe zone of the planetary station, as well as within a radius of 5 km from the border of its safe zone.

And let there be a safe zone around origin, but it is desirable to reduce it and make it more modest in terms of resources. That's enough for a beginner, but no more.
 

Colonkin

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Apr 29, 2022
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#15
I wrote about stations on the surface of planets.
Remove resources from the safe zone of the planetary station, as well as within a radius of 5 km from the border of its safe zone.

And let there be a safe zone around origin, but it is desirable to reduce it and make it more modest in terms of resources. That's enough for a beginner, but no more.
Sorry, I didn’t understand then))).
You should not remove resources near the base. This is too expensive for the server (Although an option is to prohibit the respawn of resource nodes in the security field).
It’s easier to limit the reactivation of the database (once every few days) and limit their maximum number. Even if you rearrange the database several times, taking into account the rollback, this is a very long time. And near the base, all resources will run out very quickly.
 
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