The problem with a persistent universe and player onboarding/Origin Stations

Which category do you think has merit?

  • Cat. I

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cat. II

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • Cat. III

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • Cat. IV

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • I dislike all of them.

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • I have a different idea.

    Votes: 1 14.3%

  • Total voters
    7

MrFaul

Well-known endo
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
82
#1
TLDR: Empty space around origin is bad for newbies, fix it, here some suggestions.

Hello fellow Endos
As we all know SB has a persistent universe, meaning stuff stays where it is unless somebody decides to re/move it.
This is awesome. It gives your actions meaning, makes resources finite and gives certain locations significance.
This is vital for a healthy community and economy.
Now resources like astros are finite and are gone as soon somebody touches them.
This is because they mined it completely or the residue gets removed later on by the game to keep the database healthy.
Naturally that means where a lot of player traffic is happening, space gets empty rapidly.
This forces players to venture out to prospect new sites for harvesting.
So far all good, gameplay as intended.
Now here's the catch:
That obviously happens to the Origin Stations too,
which is real bad since this is where new players boot up for the first time.
When they get introduced to the game they get training via the tutorials and later on they are supposed to farm some astros.
Touch luck so, when virtually no astros are around anymore because they are gone.
This forced the devs already to refill the origin region multiple times.
This is a heavy handed and dangerous intervention into the games environment.
If you have to do something like that regularly, something is wrong with your gamedesign.
I've been thinking about that for quite a while now and I've a few ideas I'd like to discuss that could alleviate this problem:
Category I: "bring players to resources"
Scenario one:
Origin Cap ships not stations...​
You get the gist, absolutely stupid idea.​
Moving the origin stations is a no no noooo go.​
Scenario two:
Warp/Fast travel gates to specific reserved "tutorial zones"
Basically unmined sections with a safezone where only new players with a laborer have permission to enter.​
Less stupid but has to moved regularly too, if a section is exhausted.​
Pro: gives newbies a taste of fast travel.​
Category II: "bring resources to players"
Scenario three:
Create a tutorial zone between EOS and Origin Stations.​
Basically like scenario two but localized without fast travel.​
Scenario six: (Shado20/XenoCow)
Spawn asteroids at tutorial waypoint localized.​
Those are not part of the world gen and get removed after the standard clean up period.​
(I think that was about 2h could be wrong)​
Scenario seven: (XenoCow/MrFaul)
Mining Job has the option to return ores.​
Maybe in combination with a virtual station asteroid storage that needs to be player filled.​
Category III: "make finite resources less apparent or change/improve environment"
Scenario four:
Belt pseudo rotation.​
Ok this is a big one with a lot of work for the devs.​
What do I mean with "pseudo rotation"​
Basically you section of the entire belt like a hard drive or CD​
Each section has a fixed amount of random resources and once that it is depleted no new astros spawn there.​
Every week the sections wander "a section" clock wise.​
This way it is ensured that resources don't run dry quickly.​
I personally think this would be nice addition to the gameplay instead of the current "fly deeper, find better stuff"
Since it would make sense to actually prospect the different sections for the material you are after.​
Category IV: "F! tutorials completely and outsource it to established players"
Scenario five:
Create a chaperone system and pay established players handsomely for bothering with new players.​
(e.g. with premium currency and/or exclusive items/skins)
This gives new players a first contact with the community and a dedicated person to ask for help if problems occur.​
They can take part in mining trips etc. from the get go without being bothered with a "one size fits none" automated tutorial.​
These are my thoughts so far, and I personally think four and five have real merit for the future of the game.
But maybe you have a different idea, so lets have a civil discussion about it.
Also please take part in the poll.
 
Last edited:

Askannon

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
83
#2
I would vote against an official role for helping players, as that is enough "power" to make some people drunk with it, more so if it is remunerated.
Having public help forums and possibly an improved chat range for station chat on origin is probably better.
 

MrFaul

Well-known endo
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
82
#3
You misunderstand the chaperone system, it is not a role.
It is primarily a match making system to bring new and experienced players together.

It works something along the line of:
You arrive at origin you'll get a prompt "New players are looking for a chaperone do you want to participate?"
If you decide to participate you'll get matched with a new player in a private chat room.
What happens next is entirely up to both parties
After a while a survey will pop up for the new player where he has to rate the chaperones performance,
if it's satisfactory rewards for the chaperone will be released.

There is zero power over anything involved.
 

shado20

Veteran endo
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
185
#4
what should be done is that spot where the tutorial takes the new players should re-spawn every hour or so, the rocks are small as they are pickaxe mining, the other players mining with bigger ships don't wanna mess with the small stuff so no bid deal. and if they do so what , after an hour there back and the new players have a small patch of rocks to keep hitting.
 

MrFaul

Well-known endo
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
82
#5
The problem with constantly respawning resources is that they are infinite.
Also if access is not restricted somebody will just fly in and collect all of them.
People will abuse such mechanics... It's just how humans are.
They may be "cheap" materials but since they are so close to origin it is still a good amount of cash for a very small time investment.
If you are skilled astro catcher the trip might even take 15min tops for up to 800k if you are lucky.
Done that myself with a mastodon, it isn't that difficult if the belt "untouched"
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
511
#6
I want to suggest a modification to @shado20 's idea. I think that instead of making the area of respawning asteroids (I think a geyser from Eos that spits them up would be fun) should be large enough to satisfy both new players and those that want to harvest up tons of T1-3 asteroids.

I don't see a huge problem with a few players getting credits rich off of base materials and lowering the prices of ore at the origins. The economy is still resource based so they will need to buy from outside sources to build a ship but the reduced ore prices at the origins will only help new players take more risks with their ships since a loss will not be as huge.

More simply put, if Ice, Bastium, and Vokarium are cheap as dirt at Origins, new players can build more ships without breaking the bank and there will be a balance point for those who want to abuse the respawning ore area since the ore prices have a floor that will be reached.
 

MrFaul

Well-known endo
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
82
#7
Oh sorry I didn't meant that problem is that people get "rich" with unrestricted access to that area.
I meant it in the way if it is a free for all it will be probably constantly farmed empty since it is still lucrative.
Then we are back to square one 😅
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
511
#8
What if the mining hall actually produced some ore to use? Nothing new would really need to be added and it would give players some good reason to go back as a place to easily make a buck when in need.
 

MrFaul

Well-known endo
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
82
#9
That is actually a very interesting idea.
How about taking it a step further, it uses the asteroids brought in via the tic-tac toe field thingy.
(Do we actually have an official denominator for that thing?)

After you mined a bit you can then choose between the ore or a payout.
Of course with a commission, let's say about 20%.
The payout for bringing Astros wholesale could be dependent on how many are stored.
Would make it interesting to haul some to origin if the price is right.

However this has the drawback of finding a new reason to use the laborer for teaching flying. Or does it? Hmmm...
A simple waypoint mission could suffice, couldn't it?
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
511
#10
I feel like there may be some un-intended consequences lurking in tying the work hall to the asteroid drop-off area. Maybe that could be avoided by also including the auction house such that asteroids are "reconstituted" from the ore on the auction house. This would also give the developers a tool to directly impact the market by setting the rate that ores are incentivised...

For the tutorial. It might just be easier to spawn a few asteroids in when the player reaches the final waypoint. Most tutorial players won't touch all the asteroids and the more new players the more left overs there will be for other trips back out into the belt.... This might be enough of a solution on its own, actually. Just let the new players generate the new asteroids as needed.
 
Joined
May 25, 2022
Messages
4
#11
Hi there!
I agree with XenoCow. If the tutorial creates an instance with the required amount of asteroids/materials, so only you can see/mine those, it is the easiest of the solutions in my opinion. It doesn't affect the economy and new players can continue the mission without issues.

A chaperone system is not a bad idea but if rewards are not valuables, like skins, decals, ship colors, or other cosmetics.
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
511
#12
A side effect of having the mining hall become a viable tactic for collecting resources for new players is that it will put less pressure on the local asteroids for those that want to go out and mine the normal way still.
 
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