VoIP do we need it?

Strite

Active endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
38
#41
I agree there's a lot of use cases standing around with people after you've won (sitting there around players who have decided to be friendly - you both have won the engagement). You can talk, trade and do a lot of things. In this case, the presence of VoIP instead of text is not critical. It adds to the game, but it's not critical. You can do all the trades, someone can emote a yes or no, and so on. The VoIP was only critical in establishing the win or loss, or stalemate, of the situation. That instant communication was powerful. So although it seems like the VoIP is used, it wasn't that critical after you established another player as friendly who wants to trade for example and you go on playing out that encounter.
As Atreties said, there are plenty of uses outside of the very specific examples you've provided. RP for one, or just being social in general is another. VoIP is always going to offer a more personal experience than text chat or emotes and yes, that definitely has it's downsides (like some asshat blasting music down the mic) but I'd argue that the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Vexus said:
And yes, VoIP can be very useful and powerful but also very negative and so on. Already people are saying "make sure I can mute people" and so on, and "it should be opt-in instead of opt-out". Why develop something people have to opt-in for? That's my main point. The time spent creating these systems doesn't add enough to warrant the benefits. Someone who has muted all VoIP is not going to benefit from you yelling in your mic at them.
VoIP is pretty much always optional. Yes, some people will prefer not to use it and that's absolutely fine, I don't think that's a strong enough argument not to include it at all though.

Vexus said:
In games without voice, like Smite for example, the "VGS" system is used heavily and most people use it over the third party voice systems that arose. For example, in that game, Curse developed an auto-matching third party voice chat, where players can be automatically in comms with their team. This is possible for Starbase most likely, where groups can be auto-joined into a voice chat if they choose to join in. It's not something the devs need to spend time on solving in my opinion.
There's a big difference between something like Smite, Overwatch or Apex Legends where a quick context sensitive sound bite is often a lot more practical than reeling off a sentence over VoIP, but I don't think that applies to a game like Starbase.

Finally, you keep saying that in your opinion that it just isn't worth the dev time but there are plenty of third party VoIP services that would cut down on development time for such a feature, it needn't be written entirely from scratch.
 

Jetthetank

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
118
#42
I think Voice should be implemented through Radio transmission-esque style.
Have an opt in "frequency that you can communicate through via sending a blip type message to a certain player, or a local blip to open up a public channel that people can choose to listen to that particular person, or to the entire area.
Open VOIP would be useless in "RP" reality because
1# there is no sound transmission in space.
2# we are controlling Exoskeletons remotely in the 1st place and radio comms would be more effective.

This way players could notify others that there is a specific open frequency for voice chat. and there could be public, 1 to 1, and closed private group chats. just like MMO's have text chat for global, alliance, crew, local.
These could be implemented through "Radio" frequencies.
 
Joined
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#45
"1# there is no sound transmission in space. "

COUNTERPOINT: WE'RE ROBOTS AND WE MIGHT HAVE SHORT RANGE RADIOS BUILT IN TO US TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER ROBOTS
 

Tumbla

Well-known endo
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Aug 9, 2019
Messages
62
#47
I think itd be pretty cool, would add immersion and roleplaying, say you want to board a ship or ask for their surrender you hail them on the radio. Or your taking prisoners and you need to communicate, you cant do that if everyone is in different discords.
 

Jetthetank

Veteran endo
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Messages
118
#48
A game version of The Expanse, embodied in Starbase
Lol, that is all I can think of when I see this game, well, not all...
 
Joined
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11
#51
Rust for example, very little VOIP use until you've either won or lost the battle or there's a stalemate, like someone camped inside their base. 99% of the rest of the play time it's unused.
My experience of Rust is totally different, I have used VOIP to make friends and allies and get to know my neighbours, I've been able to use VOIP to get information from players through generally chatting in a manner in which can't be conveyed easily through text. Another thing I have done is that I've defused a situation in which someone was shooting at me, and I showed them I was harmless, if I had stopped to type I would have been dead.

As far as dev factions and large groups; they will almost always evolve to using third party software after forming a group.
Such large-scale factions may actually engender such need for VOIP. The man on the spot, both in general and in combat situations, may either need or want fast access to voice communications while they are going about their business. This is especially the case with the Dev run factions, they will be directed by the devs and player factions will pledge themselves to these two factions. While there may be some sort of attempt to bring organisation and communication lines, not everyone will be involved because this will be a loose allegiance, and many will likely come together only in times of war. In fact, many of these player factions could easily end up being rivals, vying for both power and political favour (on a side note I'd love to see the Dev factions acting as a sort of system of government or patronage system in which all levels or in some way reliant and competing against each other to further their needs).

On the point of war, if I'm fighting for control of a station, and I'm fighting alongside people from other groups in an assault ordered by the devs, then I need to be able to talk to them on the ground, on the spot, while still in the game, I can't waste time flicking through voice channels to find the right people, there's going to be people trying to kill me and I need to respond fast.

It's also good to see text, where you can scroll back and see someone is recruiting for a mining run leaving in 30m, and you missed the voice call to action because you weren't around.
A verbal and a written call would be optimal and both can be used, this point isn't really a useful point.

I don't see it worth the time to develop if instead we're given similar instant-forms of communication like emotes and so on which can convey meaning to players.
In part, I refer back to my response from the second listed quote, and further it with the issue that I am going to need much more in-depth interaction in such interactions than emotes can offer.
 
Joined
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#52
Voip would be fantastic. The ability to hold people up for goods with chat instead of having to type in hyper tense situations is invaluable. Performing an inroute trade and being able to talk and keep your hands ready in case something goes south.

The plus' are endless.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
4
#53
I figger there's lots of reasons to include VoIP -- more engaging multiplay with more interesting PvP, more opportunities for fun player interactions, etc, etc.

Game like this? Prolly should *default* to including VoIP. Discord is no replacement.

However, I can think of one real good reason NOT to include VoIP: immersion!

There's nothing more immersion-breaking than 12-year-old screechers, mic breathers, tuba practice, and SpongeBob soundboards.

I like Biglet's proposal. Make VoIP a more immersive element of the game, the way ELITE does.
 

Commissar Awesome

Learned-to-sprint endo
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Aug 9, 2019
Messages
21
#54
What is wrong with text? Voice communication is far more personal and with strangers is sometimes too unpleasant on the toxic internet. A good chunk of people will want to turn it off which will render it useless overall for communication.
 

Kane Hart

Veteran endo
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Aug 9, 2019
Messages
128
#56
At first and this was like the first week I thought it was dumb.. Why would you need VOIP with Discord and many other programs. But as time went on thinking of things like GTA RP, etc... I started to really crave and see the need for the VOIP. Imagine boarding a ship and giving them the choice of living if they give say 50k credits to you and then just leaving or something simlar.

I'm thinking how do you trade or barter with someone? Type in chat spamming and advertising a Discord URL and spending time wasting while that is happening?

In the end I really noticed and felt that VOIP Was really not an option but a must in the end to provide a more depth experience to the game.
 

Morrgard

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
374
#57
As long as there is a mute option so you can solve problems of trolls trying to play music & other weird sounds and such through their part there is nothing negative with VOIP, only positive.

And a reporting system that is fast to access for those who abuse it preferably
 

Commissar Awesome

Learned-to-sprint endo
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Aug 9, 2019
Messages
21
#58
I just worry that people would expect me to respond to their voice chat when i have everyone muted and might just shoot me instead of typing a message. If in game voice is a thing then i hope the game will display which players have it active and which have everyone muted.
 

Morrgard

Master endo
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Aug 9, 2019
Messages
374
#59
I just worry that people would expect me to respond to their voice chat when i have everyone muted and might just shoot me instead of typing a message. If in game voice is a thing then i hope the game will display which players have it active and which have everyone muted.
I had more individual muting in mind, as if people are following VOIP in a reasonable manner you should not need to mute it, but if they don't you must those specific people.

That way you don't miss anything important and you get rid off the nuisance of VOIP at the same time,
 

Vexus

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Messages
187
#60
If it were something easy to implement and manage, and figure out all the conditions for (providing the option to mute 100's of local players, detecting who enters and leaves range), I agree, VoIP is extremely valuable to a game like this. I don't think they've made any work to add it into the game and figure out how it would work, so it's months of development time to get it going, and I don't see it being critical to the EA launch. I'd love to see some kind of VOIP implemented eventually, just unsure how well it would work in an MMO environment. There haven't been many other large scale MMO games with VOIP like this. Remember Starbase will be matching players with potentially 100's of nearby other players. All the "what-ifs" are going to be a monsterous hill to tackle.

Edit: I'd like to also clarify; when I'm talking about Rust and DayZ and similar games in terms of winning a fight, I'm trying to point out - it is in only tense situational and often brief moments where you really wish you had VOIP. It is not a "requirement" 99% of the other gameplay, and most players are in a Discord server with friends. VOIP adds a ton of fun to games, I'm not against VOIP, I'm saying the effort to make it happen in Starbase... I don't see it being worth the dev time (at least not yet). I could totally be wrong. As such, it's not "needed" - what is needed for example is for a player to be able to make their ship go forward. That's a "need" to make the game work. VOIP is necessarily a "want" item. For example, I vaguely remember a game where one player would guide another player through a puzzle remotely using VOIP. In that game, it was required to have VOIP. It made the game work.

If all those unique problems for Starbase could be solved in a short time frame and it would work great and all the conditionals were taken care of, I'd definitely want VOIP. I just don't see it being worth the dev time, again, at least not right now.
 
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