Using stolen blueprints

[Mutleyx]

Hi Frozenbyte,

I'm curious to what the official stance is on players downloading and using blueprints that have been hacked out of the game. As I'm sure you know, many of the most popular ship designs have been leaked this way. As a designer of some of those ships, I am understandably quite disappointed about this. At Vintage we have already seen players loading these blueprint up and tinkering with them. Does that also count as hacking? I would think it does. The game does not have an official blueprint import function and these blueprints have not been released with the original author's consent.

Personally I would like to see use of these blueprints being a ban-able offence, and would like to think that Frozenbyte's community team would make some efforts to enforce. I think that would send a strong message to discourge those that might be thinking of using the results of these exploits, and future ones. To not react sends the opposite message.

I am keen to see how FB will react to this. Fingers crossed

 

[Kodey]

I would love to see more measures taken to stop/prevent stuff like this happening. I would assume it’s a hack, since it requires a person to decrypt the FBE files, but we haven’t seen an official statement yet.

 

[Jakaal]

I'll be honest, I really don't get this hardline stance on ship blueprints. Sure you created them, and you should get credit, but in a game where one of the main activities is building ships, being hard locked from saving any modifications to the ship I'm flying to be able to easily replace the ship if lost? That is a complete non-starter and is why I haven't touched a single ship I can't load a BP for in the ship builder.

Once you ship design goes into the game for sale via NPC store, I don't think you should have the rights to prevent purchasers from modifying it and saving that variant for themselves.
Designs submitted to the store for resell should be reviewed for originality, to make sure the design isn't a rip off, but otherwise it should be the purchasers to do with what they will.

 

[FLMNAG]

I did find the plans on the forum, but I prefer buy in your official shop for after-sales service and to recognize your skill. The Buzzard soon<3
It’s just a shame not to have different colors on the official shop
If the paint did not cost a testicle I assure you that the players will not go through the blueprint to modify the official ships

 

[Agonarch]

I'll be honest, I really don't get this hardline stance on ship blueprints..

I get your position, but each ship is 100+ hours to do.. these people didn't share their blueprints publicly, they submitted them so people could have an easier start to a system that was supposed to be secure, it wasn't for their own personal gain or something. "Meh, screw those guys, I don't think it's a big deal, so they shouldn't either" seems a pretty hardline stance to take too, that considered. As for players being able to do their own mods to them I do get that, that's in the works (take a look at the latest dev updates to see how that works).

EDIT: Submitting them to the NPC shop gets the 'seller' nothing, in case you weren't aware of that.

 

[Mutleyx]

but in a game where one of the main activities is building ships, being hard locked from saving any modifications to the ship I'm flying to be able to easily replace the ship if lost? .

I agree, but that is an entirely separate issue. I think that needs a system of its own to deal with in-game, rather than hacking blueprints by manipulating files outside of the game to get them into the SSC. It is the latter that I am concerned about.

Once you ship design goes into the game for sale via NPC store, I don't think you should have the rights to prevent purchasers from modifying it and saving that variant for themselves..

I'm all for saving blueprint variants, or modifications, to the original. I believe FB are already working on something like this.

Designs submitted to the store for resell should be reviewed for originality, to make sure the design isn't a rip off, but otherwise it should be the purchasers to do with what they will.

I agree on ship-shop submissions, but that does not stop people selling modified designs directly. Perhaps they have spent 10 hours modifying a ship and now want to sell that. The original author will likely, as Agonarch points out, have spend 100+ hours. I'm not convinced it is fair to expect the original author to get nothing, while the modder makes all the proceeds.

In the game modding community, you need to own the base game in order to play the mod. Perhaps that model would work well for Starbase ships, but obviously that's a whole new feature request!

 

[Jakaal]

I get that entirely, I just don't understand why if you're not getting anything out of it as the designer anyway, why are you so opposed to purchasers getting full use of the BP? I do think that copy cats should be barred from adding their "variant" to the store, but I think trying to stop people doing person to person sales of customized BPs is a fools errand and shouldn't even considered.

Look, I'm not espousing it should be a free for all, but I AM saying that I think people are absolute fools for buying a ship they can't easily modify and replace without buying it from the shop and doing all the work all over again. Not to mention that I have yet to find a single ship that I liked as is. And I'm flat out not interested in spending 100 hours in SSC, I tapped out at 20.

 

[Kodey]

why are you so opposed to purchasers getting full use of the BP? I do think that copy cats should be barred from adding their "variant" to the store, but I think trying to stop people doing person to person sales of customized BPs is a fools errand and shouldn't even considered.

I think it's important to note that these blueprints are obtained through illegitimate means. And (for me at least) this means that people are making money (Around 40 million) because they managed to steal our designs. They get rich while the actual designer gets nothing.

 

[YellowDucky]

I think it's important to note that these blueprints are obtained through illegitimate means. And (for me at least) this means that people are making money (Around 40 million) because they managed to steal our designs. They get rich while the actual designer gets nothing.

I made a post about this to try to get the devs attention and It actually worked, check my post! I got a copy and pasted response, but it was something.

 

[Jakaal]

Unless something was set to change, you still wouldn't get anything out of it once they get BPs working? I'm not saying I condone what was done but the only thing that has changed in any way is that the BP isn't locked for the users who bought them. I'm of the opinion that is the default way it should be for everyone of the ships in the in game shop.

 

[Agonarch]

That's not the only thing that's changed, people are selling variants of these ships and making credits off them, and when they need support they go to the original designer, not the copy seller, making even more work. You say you're not interested in spending hundreds of hours in the SSC, but also that people who do should just give that work away for nothing (or worse be ok with watching other people profit from it).

Yes there needs to be better support for the things you say and it's a high priority as I understand, the in universe mod/retrofit tools look like they're not the SSC though if you look at the updates. The solution is not to just knowingly steal blueprints in the meanwhile, though, that I disagree with.

People who sell/share blueprints at the moment is a bit of a different story, as that's not properly supported and the Devs warn against doing that, users are fairly free to do what they wish with those (though obviously if you're reselling blueprints you agreed not to individuals may well blacklist you even if you don't get banned), but this isn't that. Most of these blueprints were never shared even internally in their creators companies.

 

[CalenLoki]

I get that entirely, I just don't understand why if you're not getting anything out of it as the designer anyway, why are you so opposed to purchasers getting full use of the BP? I do think that copy cats should be barred from adding their "variant" to the store, but I think trying to stop people doing person to person sales of customized BPs is a fools errand and shouldn't even considered.

Look, I'm not espousing it should be a free for all, but I AM saying that I think people are absolute fools for buying a ship they can't easily modify and replace without buying it from the shop and doing all the work all over again. Not to mention that I have yet to find a single ship that I liked as is. And I'm flat out not interested in spending 100 hours in SSC, I tapped out at 20.

When you buy a car IRL, do you expect it to come with full blueprints that lets you set up production line? And permission to sell BP/copies further.
Well, there's probably a chance to get that, for a very high price. But more often than not, you'll get just the car.

Works the same here. If someone wants to sell full BP, they have that choice. If just the ship - that's a valid choice too. Don't try to force people to do with their creations what they don't want.

 

[Jakaal]

1) IRL isn't a game about building ships.
2) if you don't want your design to be modified and reused, don't sell or upload the BP to the in game store.

My entire argument about this BP issue has to do solely with ships in the ship store as it currently functions. If they fix BPs to have some ability later to have limited use or whatever, great! I still won't even buy a ship I can't save changes to and replace easily as modified in a game where PvP is a main focus as I will lose ships. As the game is currently, with designers getting nothing out of people buying their ships anyway, the BPs being locked makes them completely worthless IMO, a novelty at best. Something to never risk outside the SZ.

 

[Mutleyx]

I would just like to say a quick thanks to FB for posting this on Discord annoucements:

We have recently issued some bans to a number of players for the unauthorized possession and use of blueprints of multiple ship shop ships, which were gained using exploits.

Thanks FB.

 

[Agonarch]

Alright Jakaal, I agree with the first part of your point sure, we need a better system for handling ship mods, and there's one in the works if you look at the dev updates, but you have to separate that from the stolen ship blueprints, I very much disagree with you on that point.

Let me try an analogy;

* You get a credit card - it's a nuisance where you are to do, and takes at least 100 hours.
* Frozenbyte invites you to use it at their store, you come in to buy something.
* A guy there pushes over the shopkeeper, snatches the card and starts making photocopies.
* The shopkeeper calls the police, the guy starts selling the photocopies in front of everyone, claiming they're you, and that this is legit.
* The police come in, check the camera, arrest the guy and take the photocopies off people, then leave.
* A bunch of people who bought photocopies can't tell the difference between you and the guy who got arrested, they think you scammed them because the police took their copies away. You realize that a bunch of the people you've been talking to about credit-card issues were actually using these photocopied ones, not companies you'd dealt with personally. Some people have ones with extra stuff written on them, occasionally interesting but sometimes it's just a bunch of extra numbers written in crayon, which obviously is the cause of the problems. They get angry with you, but there's not really anything you can do.
* Some other people who were in the store but missed all this wander up and spot some photocopies still sitting on the machine. They pick them up.
"Hey, you shouldn't use those, those were stolen!" You say. Most people go 'oh', and put them down.
"But it's really hard to get a credit card! I tried but gave up after a bit! I should be allowed to use this one!" Responds one guy.
"Yes, it's hard to get a credit card, it should be easier, I agree. That is a copy of a stolen one, though, and you shouldn't use it." You point out, helpfully.
"If you didn't want everyone to have your credit card copy, you shouldn't have used it in this store. It's hard to get one myself so I'm going to use this one, whatever you or others say. Because it's hard to get one. This one should be mine. It's on you for bringing it in." The guy replies, unbelievably.
* The police come back in and start talking to people who have copies. Some of them scream things like "I mades it from scratch, it's mine!" or "My precioussss! You can't stop me!". The police take them away, but most of the people talk with the police, understand the situation, have the photocopies taken away and go on to other parts of the store without any further issue.
* The police are still looking around at people with photocopies, they still have to separate innocent unaware people from people who worked knowingly with the original thief. You watch some people who you thought were probably innocent be really cagey with the police, making you doubt them and making the police's job much more difficult. <- we are here

 

[*FS*]

Thx God! Test flight don't work for me lol I use easy build cockpits to make ships in designer bay. If you build a ship out in plain air they vanish no blueprint imprinted on them. I found this to be the most relaxing way to build. weird i know i do use designer for painted parts, graphics and test fitting parts or custom cockpit layouts. Atm designer bug out on me badly i can't proceed in my build and i am the type that just loves to build.