Hypothetical Warp gate Construction Requirements

[Fingle]

I was recently watching one of @Kenetor 's faction interviews featuring Luna Corp. Luna corp's goal is to reach the moon and build a warp gate. That got me thinking... How will players build a warp gate? Clearly the process should be extremely expensive and time consuming, but how do the devs balance that? I have a couple Ideas.

This is the style of warp gate I am talking about. One with an outer support structure.


Warp Controller and stabilizers

• Clearly there will need to be a controller part. This part will most likely cost a LOT of rare metals and resources.
• They will also likely want to include stabilizers placed around the inner ring to contain the rift in space-time that the warp gate would artificially create.

Power

• Clearly these gates will take a stupid amount of power to maintain.
• Maybe it would take a completely alien fuel type?
  • Dedicated refineries on sight?
  • Specialized fuel pipes?

Structural Stability

• The wormhole created by the warp gate, in my opinion, should create either a strong pushing or pulling force. This force could be directed by the stabilizers into the superstructure surrounding the wormhole.
  • This force might become exponentially stronger the larger the wormhole is. This would create an interesting construction dynamic. First build a smaller warp gate that was brought with the original team in order to warp materials for the larger gate.
• The surrounding superstructure would need to be extremely efficient in it's pressure distribution to get the largest Warp gate possible.

Warp gates are one of the game mechanics that really excite me about this game. These are some of my ideas, let me know what you guys think.

 

[Amos.37]

A partial way to counter the power problem would be to have the gate powered off most of the time.
Either set up set times the gate is active or have it controlled by some form of governing authority that can activate it when required.

The second option requires a permanent presence at both ends of the gate, but could lead to some interesting espionage gameplay. For example, a faction could try to forcefully gain control of the gate and deactivate it, essentially cutting off the far end from the rest of the world.
They could then set restrictions or even effectively ransom the gate, as many players would have an interest in seeing it restored. Other players then have 2 options, give in to demands, or send an expedition across the void to retake the gate.
However, any faction that takes control of the gate without the blessing of the majority would be making themselves a common enemy of all players and factions that rely on the gate. Could see some very intense wars happening with this.

Note that with this option, the only way to gain total control over a gate system would be to control both sides, so you'd either need a single governing body to control both sides, or cooperation between the two sides. Either way, this could lead to development of custom checkpoints, tolls, etc.

I know this got a bit off track from talking about construction of a gateway network, but I am very excited to see what system they set up, as gateways will likely become centre pieces for trade and logistical gameplay.

 

[Fingle]

Note that with this option, the only way to gain total control over a gate system would be to control both sides, so you'd either need a single governing body to control both sides, or cooperation between the two sides. Either way, this could lead to development of custom checkpoints, tolls, etc.

I know this got a bit off track from talking about construction of a gateway network, but I am very excited to see what system they set up, as gateways will likely become centre pieces for trade and logistical gameplay.

I'm pretty sure that there is a faction dedicated to setting up a free and accessible warp gate network. I forget their name, but I'm sure other factions will build gates that charge money. And it is completely possible that gates will be so expensive to keep running that free warp gates will be impractical.

 

[Stanky]

Well, I believe it was said that large ships could fit in warp technology to use themselves. I'm not sure if it is more limited than a warp gate, but being able to put it on a ship would mean it is less expensive to keep powered up for use.

Personally I'm more concerned with trade routes and gate networking. Will large factions set up private gates for their own use? Or will major routes be established to get from one side of the galaxy to another. This begs another question. Will gates have a limited range? Will we have to produce another gate every 1000km or so? This makes overall cost a big question. I suspect this will end up similar to the race for the first Eve Online keepstar. There's gonna be spreadsheets everywhere. The raw organization to set up a single warp gate network is gonna be insane, but think about connecting the entire galaxy.

The fact of the matter is: the devs are going to have to be really careful implementing warp gates. Something like this could make or break the game. And the consequences of screwing it up may be irreversible.

 

[Amos.37]

Setting up the initial warp gate at the starting mega-stations probably won't be too hard, as resources and manpower will be fairly plentiful. The real question is how to set up the second gate.

Will players have to survey a location to make sure it has the necessary resources to build a gate, or will a group try to transport the materials with them? Depends on how hard it is too make, but personally I'd prefer it to be quite difficult to set up and maintain a gate.

If they're so easy that every faction can make their own network, it removes large amounts of potential gameplay.
Of course, if they're too difficult to maintain, few gates would be established and those seldom used, making them less integral to gameplay.

It really needs to be a balance between "difficult enough project that it requires lots of cooperation to make and maintain" and "accessible enough that it's worth the time for players to invest in building and maintaining."

I'm leaning more towards it should be very hard to build but then comparatively easy to maintain, but then thinking about long-term, if so many gates are set up that policing them becomes impossible, or just unnecessary due to a plenitude of routes people can take, it might take away from the experience.

It might be necessary for FB to set limits as to the number of gates possible. Maybe only a couple of gates allowed within a certain range of each other. Easy to explain in universe, that gates would become unstable if constructed too close together.

This of course goes on the assumption that each gate only has one destination, rather than being able to travel to multiple points from one gate.
There's another question, should each gate only allow travel to one other gate? Should they allow travel to all gates? Should you need to align/configure the gate so it can connect to different gates, but only one at a time? Should you need codes that allow access to certain gates depending on who controls them?

 

[Amos.37]

Ultimately, I just really want to see a SB version of the hyperspace wars, with wars being fought for the control of gateways.
I'm sure some Star Wars nerd will correct me, that the Hyperspace Wars weren't fought over warp gates or even hyperspace lanes, but you get the idea.

 

[Kenetor]

Hey, thanks for checking out my video Fingle! I hope you are enjoying them.

I have been wondering alot about them too, i guess we will get a feature video on them at some point.

I want to know if they can be freely made by players or if they have to be at specific points.
Are they dev chosen location only and are already m,aybe bare frames that we have to contribute to finish.
Rough time scales to build one.
As you said, how are these powered? for ease I think once activated they could be sustained by somehow by the warp/subspace
If they are player built and anywhere will there be a minimum distance warp gates need to be apart so you can have loads near each other, this could help spread people out and create territories.
How are the gates connected, will it be like Stargate, and you just ned to have the address of the exit gate stored to go there?

I cant wait to hear some Dev feedback on these, I know its probably all still in the planning stages but still food for thought.

 

[Fingle]

I highly doubt that the warp gates will be only Dev made unless they tie it into some type of lor.

The devs have made it clear that they want this universe to be player-driven. The universe is a sandbox and the devs give us shovels and buckets for us to build things with and smack each other with.

 

[rabirland]

If every warp gate is controlled by players and the build + maintain is really expensive, the owners will have the monopoly to tax them as much as they want.

I would bet on having two options. One is a warp gate, player built and maintained, the owner can do whatever they want with it. Option two would be a less efficient warp drive for large ships, so if you don't want to use a taxed gate, you can build a jump ship which obviously takes more time and energy to reach the destination.

To spice things up I would even create an economy over extremely limited component that is required to build a ship. This way large factions, or "corporations" can fight over these components. I would even bet on a limited amount of these components, let's say there is only X in the entire universe, or if you want more you have to travel a lot... I mean.... a LOT. Transportation is nearly the sole thing that players can control in the game, that influences other players too.

After all, every material has near infinite amount, even the rare ones. But adding limited amount of component in the game would spice things up, without "illegal" components factions doesn't really has any reason to bother each other, other than roleplay.

 

[CalenLoki]

Do we really need warp gates? How do they improve the game?

If they take the most typically suggested shape, they would:
1. Remove pirate gameplay, due to ships basically teleporting between safe zones. Thus dumb down transport gameplay, as there is no need to design combat resistant military transport ships. Also no reason to create convoys.
2. Make game world feel smaller.
3. Funnel even more money to large factions that can afford building one, thus making small ones even more irrelevant.
4. Remove localised resource market, thus kill trade
5. Allow quick relocation of military forces, thus helping factions that control large territories.

I consider none of these positive.

 

[Stanky]

Do we really need warp gates? How do they improve the game?

If they take the most typically suggested shape, they would:
1. Remove pirate gameplay, due to ships basically teleporting between safe zones. Thus dumb down transport gameplay, as there is no need to design combat resistant military transport ships. Also no reason to create convoys.
2. Make game world feel smaller.
3. Funnel even more money to large factions that can afford building one, thus making small ones even more irrelevant.
4. Remove localised resource market, thus kill trade
5. Allow quick relocation of military forces, thus helping factions that control large territories.

I consider none of these positive.

1. You can still have pirate gameplay depending on how the warp gates are implemented. If they are anything like Eve Online gates, they are 100 percent possible to pirate them. I hope they are like Eve gates. And to be completely honest. Pirate gameplay isn't gonna happen much without gates. Most people will be centralized towards the safezone. And there is no damage in the safezone. Distance and fuel restrictions make it inefficient to make a base far away. It will just take too long to make it back to a major civilization.

2. That's true, but think about it differently. The game world is absurdly massive. It is so large it makes long distance travel unrealistic. Someone did some calculations based on how far away the moon is from the safezone. Once implemented into the game, it would take 20 IRL days to travel to the moon. And that's at max speed the game allows. Most large ships necessary to complete a long voyage like that couldn't even reach half the max speed. Making the game world smaller through the use of jumpgates allows for more player interaction in deep space.

3. Also depends on how game mechanics are implemented.

4. How would this kill trade? It creates trade routes to various non-safezone locations. And trade hubs are going to pop up extensively outside the safezone. Right now most trade hubs are going to be in the safezone or within a relatively short distance around it.

5. Also depends on how warp gate mechanics work. If you've ever played eve, despite having jump gates, it takes a long time to cross the galaxy. And how is this not a positive? It encourages large scale PVP. Which could get Starbase big publicity, and then it increases the amount of new players.

 

[TheMarksman]

1. You can still have pirate gameplay depending on how the warp gates are implemented. If they are anything like Eve Online gates, they are 100 percent possible to pirate them. I hope they are like Eve gates. And to be completely honest. Pirate gameplay isn't gonna happen much without gates. Most people will be centralized towards the safezone. And there is no damage in the safezone. Distance and fuel restrictions make it inefficient to make a base far away. It will just take too long to make it back to a major civilization.

2. That's true, but think about it differently. The game world is absurdly massive. It is so large it makes long distance travel unrealistic. Someone did some calculations based on how far away the moon is from the safezone. Once implemented into the game, it would take 20 IRL days to travel to the moon. And that's at max speed the game allows. Most large ships necessary to complete a long voyage like that couldn't even reach half the max speed. Making the game world smaller through the use of jumpgates allows for more player interaction in deep space.

3. Also depends on how game mechanics are implemented.

4. How would this kill trade? It creates trade routes to various non-safezone locations. And trade hubs are going to pop up extensively outside the safezone. Right now most trade hubs are going to be in the safezone or within a relatively short distance around it.

5. Also depends on how warp gate mechanics work. If you've ever played eve, despite having jump gates, it takes a long time to cross the galaxy. And how is this not a positive? It encourages large scale PVP. Which could get Starbase big publicity, and then it increases the amount of new players.

Last I remembered, a dev said that one idea they floated around was to have gates link from one area to another and not from area to area, but we'll have to see.

 

[Stanky]

Last I remembered, a dev said that one idea they floated around was to have gates link from one area to another and not from area to area, but we'll have to see.

Could you expancd on what they mean by that? Is it like it warps you to an area, and then you have to travel to the next gate in regular space? Because I think that'd be cool.

 

[TheMarksman]

Could you expancd on what they mean by that? Is it like it warps you to an area, and then you have to travel to the next gate in regular space? Because I think that'd be cool.

Something like that, yes.