Getting Around the Universe and Tedium

Shulace

Active endo
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
40
#1
I am eagerly awaiting EA for this game but I have a few questions from the research I have done so far...

It seems that traveling around space in Starbase takes a PHENOMINAL amount of time, not the fun kind either for the average person. If I understand correctly, there is a speed limit of around 150m/s and getting somewhere notable can take days...this makes Dual Universe slow boating look tame...I never want to fly 4 hours to a planet in my life again lol(Fun fact: I actually fell asleep and overshot the planet as well which doubled my travel time).

So my questions are;

  • Will there be any form of FTL/Hyperdrive/Warp capability for a ship? I have seen a video showing the warp gate and it still took 1 HOUR to get to the moon's surface one way using the gate and that moon is right next to the planet.

  • Will this game be playable for casuals in EA? In respect to how tedious/time consuming it is to get the main materials used to build a decent ship.

Personally I just want to create and show off/sell ships with my buds in an MMO style setting like Dual Universe and take part in ship expos, with a little pvp on the side etc., but without the F2P/Korean MMO level kind of grind. It would be nice to have a casual base which generally breathes life into an MMO with good player retention instead of everything being based around hardcore tedium.

However, I am not totally against long travel times and some tedium. I do believe if a player puts in the time and effort they should be rewarded accordingly. But most places required for the common game loops should not take a whole play session just to reach.
 

Kenetor

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
199
#2
scale is important for games like DU and SB, if you can get anywhere and everywhere quickly, the game would just be filled with griefers and would feel small.

As far as I know there is no ship based ftl travel systems, we do have warp gates that we will be able to build as part of a station and these will be controlled by the station owner. getting in orbit of the moon takes about 12 minutes which covers a distance that would take 40ish hours to fly normally,

We have no idea yet how long anything will take to do in EA as the current economy is not final. but expect at least similar grind to other MMO's/space survival games

As to your final comments, I don't think this level of grind is bad, station building can be done solo but is intended for groups
 

Orlover

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
58
#3
Most of the places you want to go currently in the game (where you can actually do things) require less than an hour of travel time. There is also currently an insurances system that allows instant travel of yourself and your possessions but not your ships. For "hardcore" high end mining there is a fair amount of travel to get deep in the belt, this is the worst thing you will run into. You can either go around the belt and double your travel time but mostly afk it......or.....god help you, you can fly through the belt itself. Dodging asteroids along the way. It is really not that big of a deal,for the first hour or so you do it. But after many trips and many hours you will hit a breaking point and just decide to point and forget it. Which will inevitably get your ship smacked with an asteroid and probably bring everything to a hault as even minor damage to a ship can make it just too much of a pain to fly due to the current structure system. Sometimes you can repair it in the field......sometimes you cant.

Like I said, you hit a breaking point after dodging asteroids for too long, and you just snap. When you reach that point you wont even care if your ship makes it to the destination.

Players have devised methods for ships to autopilot and dodge asteroids. Good luck figuring them out or getting your hands on the designs.
 

Shulace

Active endo
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
40
#4
scale is important for games like DU and SB, if you can get anywhere and everywhere quickly, the game would just be filled with griefers and would feel small.
I watch your vids, but I do not agree with that statement, you will have learnt nothing from DU and why its in the state it is in right now if you truly believe that.

Convenience can come at a cost, I see no reason not to have a warp drive that uses fuel to get around faster. Giving players options is always a positive. Griefers are gonna be everywhere in this game regardless, imagine people pvp and try to grief in DU, and combat/pvp in that game is like a bad web browser game. Starbase pvp is leagues above what DU has, people are gonna pvp their butts off. Also if the game feels like a job, only the niche crowd is gonna stay, I probably will stick around for a while but I know for sure my friends won't if that is the case.

Most of the places you want to go currently in the game (where you can actually do things) require less than an hour of travel time.
Thanks, I guess that not too bad, but still makes me a tad bit nervous that it will only scale up for longer times from here as new locations gets added lol.
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
395
#5
I think that lots of the long distance travel will get limited once players can set up useful stations deeper in the belt (and more of them). You may have to fly for a couple hours, either by yourself or with a ferry, once. But once you're out there, you can enjoy all the activity at and near the station. Especially if all you want to do is sell your ships for the most part, your travels would be somewhat infrequent, I'd imagine.
 

Orlover

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
58
#6
I think that lots of the long distance travel will get limited once players can set up useful stations deeper in the belt (and more of them). You may have to fly for a couple hours, either by yourself or with a ferry, once. But once you're out there, you can enjoy all the activity at and near the station. Especially if all you want to do is sell your ships for the most part, your travels would be somewhat infrequent, I'd imagine.
If they really do eventually allow players to set up warp gates then traveling will almost be a non-issue. Almost. Player made "starbases" are surrounded by a 1-2km safe zone and I would assume the gates would too. Otherwise the MASSIVE amount resources required to setup both the base and likely eventually the gate would be flushed down the toilet the first time a guild like Substrate trips over your starbase. Makes long term playability utterly pointless if your bullied by large guilds constantly and hundreds of hours of resource grinding keeps getting wasted. So I hope the safe zones stay or why bother? The other alternative if we all keep losing the gates is we all just join one guild and sing kumbaya.

For those who have not yet enjoyed them the warp gates will turn a 41 hour trip into a 12 minute trip and completely afk (second time i used one I was heading toward the moon and though I had made an ENORMOUS mistake). So at worse then somebody will just have to make that insanely long moon trip once with a mining ship and hopefully set up the other end of a warpgate. At least until somebody theoretically comes along and blows it up.....which will get old real fast.
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
395
#7
If they really do eventually allow players to set up warp gates then traveling will almost be a non-issue. Almost. Player made "starbases" are surrounded by a 1-2km safe zone and I would assume the gates would too. Otherwise the MASSIVE amount resources required to setup both the base and likely eventually the gate would be flushed down the toilet the first time a guild like Substrate trips over your starbase. Makes long term playability utterly pointless if your bullied by large guilds constantly and hundreds of hours of resource grinding keeps getting wasted. So I hope the safe zones stay or why bother? The other alternative if we all keep losing the gates is we all just join one guild and sing kumbaya.

For those who have not yet enjoyed them the warp gates will turn a 41 hour trip into a 12 minute trip and completely afk (second time i used one I was heading toward the moon and though I had made an ENORMOUS mistake). So at worse then somebody will just have to make that insanely long moon trip once with a mining ship and hopefully set up the other end of a warpgate. At least until somebody theoretically comes along and blows it up.....which will get old real fast.
I wasn't even thinking about warpgates. I was just thinking about any reasons to travel far right now are for the good ores deeper in the belt. Once players can build starbases that are self-sustaining out where the gettin's good, there won't be as much reason to travel long distances often.
 

Shulace

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Joined
Apr 26, 2021
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40
#8
I wasn't even thinking about warpgates. I was just thinking about any reasons to travel far right now are for the good ores deeper in the belt. Once players can build starbases that are self-sustaining out where the gettin's good, there won't be as much reason to travel long distances often.
This would be kind of true IF there is all the different kinds ore available in your base area. Is that how the game works? Does the far out asteroid belts have every kind of ore available? There is also a problem with this though as you will be segmenting the player population which kind of poops on trading if its such a hassle to get around.


Makes long term playability utterly pointless if your bullied by large guilds constantly and hundreds of hours of resource grinding keeps getting wasted. So I hope the safe zones stay or why bother? The other alternative if we all keep losing the gates is we all just join one guild and sing kumbaya.
This would suck if that is how it really works. Can't retain players if the rewards for their time investment sets you up to get griefed. Majority of the playerbase will be small groups of under 10 people, if you got the 30+ orgs constantly rolling over everyone, it will certainly kill motivation for the small groups.

Also if gates are locked per org, Do they link to multiple destinations? Or are giant orgs gonna pop up 50 of them around their bases to get around? I really do not see how the gates are a viable alternative to integrated ship warping. The game will feel populated at launch but unless they give EVERYTHING a player will ever need around the starting area, it will become a ghost town with a lot of island populations that never really interact with each other, which is certainly a gameplay choice, but does not really encourage player trade for a large economy unless all markets are linked and cargo teleports around somehow. I can't imagine a player will want to fly 40 hour one way trips for exotic ore for ship builds or trade, that is definitely more of a job than anything lol. There is always that one guy that will do it, but they won't be able to supply a whole economy.

The devs really have a tough road ahead of them balancing the need for travel, trade and conflict in their game loops lol.

I would really would like to see massive player made ship expos in this game, but if there is no warp then its harder to participate if you're on the other side of the map.
 

XenoCow

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Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
395
#9
Is that how the game works?
I think that the common ores can usually be found most places, it's just the rare ones that are in separate pockets. But, there will still be a need for the people living in the areas of rare ore to trade with those that have more overall common ores.

10 people, if you got the 30+ orgs constantly rolling over everyone, it will certainly kill motivation for the small groups.
It's a good thing that the SB universe is so huge, even groups of hundreds of players could only defend a certain size area. Eventually they will run out of players to constantly hold all their territory. If it ends up that there are thousands of 30+ companies that would be required to occupy all space, then that's awesome. By that point, we could end up seeing more than one planet perhaps to house all those players and give them enough room. If those large factions could move fleets around very quickly, it would only make stomping on little guys over a wider area easier.

Do they link to multiple destinations?
I think there is that possibility since currently when you enter a warpgate, it asks you if you want to warp to a destination (only one choice, but it's worded like there could be multiple).

I can't imagine a player will want to fly 40 hour one way trips for exotic ore for ship builds or trade
That's where lots of small few player group stations come in. No player has to travel for 40 hours if you just have to travel to the next station. Stations will be able to act like a bucket brigade, each sharing some of the burden so that nobody has to travel super far. There will be players that want to travel the whole way themselves so that they can earn the most profit, but the materials will still be able to make it anywhere if there are enough stations.

if there is no warp then its harder to participate if you're on the other side of the map
I don't think you would have to travel physically across the planet more than once. If you set up an insurance terminal somewhere, you can transport yourself around from anywhere. If it's for a ship-show, you would still have your blueprints and could build your ships when you get to the show instead of taking them with you.
 

Shulace

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Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
40
#10
I think that the common ores can usually be found most places, it's just the rare ones that are in separate pockets. But, there will still be a need for the people living in the areas of rare ore to trade with those that have more overall common ores.


It's a good thing that the SB universe is so huge, even groups of hundreds of players could only defend a certain size area. Eventually they will run out of players to constantly hold all their territory. If it ends up that there are thousands of 30+ companies that would be required to occupy all space, then that's awesome. By that point, we could end up seeing more than one planet perhaps to house all those players and give them enough room. If those large factions could move fleets around very quickly, it would only make stomping on little guys over a wider area easier.


I think there is that possibility since currently when you enter a warpgate, it asks you if you want to warp to a destination (only one choice, but it's worded like there could be multiple).


That's where lots of small few player group stations come in. No player has to travel for 40 hours if you just have to travel to the next station. Stations will be able to act like a bucket brigade, each sharing some of the burden so that nobody has to travel super far. There will be players that want to travel the whole way themselves so that they can earn the most profit, but the materials will still be able to make it anywhere if there are enough stations.


I don't think you would have to travel physically across the planet more than once. If you set up an insurance terminal somewhere, you can transport yourself around from anywhere. If it's for a ship-show, you would still have your blueprints and could build your ships when you get to the show instead of taking them with you.
Clears up a lot, thanks man!
I'll be honest though, I legit thought SB was further along when I heard EA is supposed to be next month, kind of skeptical now. I'll still get it though.
 
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Saltylelele

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Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
58
#12
Otherwise the MASSIVE amount resources required to setup both the base and likely eventually the gate would be flushed down the toilet the first time a guild like Substrate trips over your starbase.
FYI, Substrate aint agressive. You'd really have to do something wrong to get Substrate pissed.

It may be "Early Access" but it is not going to be in beta yet, just open alpha.
Beta != EA.
 

Orlover

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Feb 3, 2021
Messages
58
#13
FYI, Substrate aint agressive. You'd really have to do something wrong to get Substrate pissed.
Just using them as an example since they are one of if not the biggest orgs active right now. I have only encountered them at the events and they were very friendly other than all the shooting. If our little Silverlight group ever merges with anybody it would probably be them.
 
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