How to make the game more real-world friendly

Venombrew

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
367
#21
@XenoCow i do see what your saying but the data is pretty much there if your just looking at the forums alone, this thread not counting you or myself has 8-9 different people who seems to oppose these sort of mechanics. and if you look at other threads on these forums with similar topics also have more overwhelming opinions and arguments that oppose these kind of ideas effecting these specific areas. im sure you remember how upset a lot of players got when they increased the size of the safezones, i sure do. but then look at how since over 2 years ago or maybe 3 now when they first publicly announced this game, emphasized a lot towards this game play(go back and read and watch a lot of early stuff leading up to now). Which is defined not by the company but sorta a genre of its own, as a risk versus reward style game, even more so since endos will drop their items upon death. A direct quote from their information of the game on steam says, "Mine raw minerals from asteroids and salvage different parts from broken ships, trade your salvaged goods at trading stations, or steal from others if that floats your (space)boat."

So FB themselves are on board from day one with this concept. The reason we call this a RvR game, is because of the way materials and goods needed in the game are moved around with the possibility of losing it not only to other players but the environment as well. I still tell people your biggest issue outside the SZ isn't pirates, but asteroids, your likely to lose your ship to asteroids before ever coming across pirates. And changing the risk value vs your reward value with devices like the damper and other things doesn't change the game but rather you as a player, playing smarter and shrinking the margin of risk. That is a method everyone is comfortable with, and yes these games do have a higher amount of players looking for that thrill of RvR, it is the main reason a lot of them are drawn to it. Look at the bigger player ran factions, do you honestly think any of them with their 100s of players would prefer these mechanics? Im pretty sure The Collective wouldn't be and they are a real faction. A big proof of it is look at the increase in games that are like this, the number is rising quite high every year, steam store is full of them.

Just like many other players, I think having the abilities that you can work for in or design yourself to lower your own risk while still maintaining your high reward is very much acceptable as long as it is the player who came up with it and not a forced mechanic that completely changes the theme of the game. What is the point of a completely destructable universe if players don't count? What is the fun or challenge of a game when there is no risk or competition? Basically without it, starbase is just a building simulator or single player game with multiplayer option with a lot of extremely now unimportant game size.
 

CalenLoki

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
728
#22
offer suggestions on how to lower the reward for players that want to enjoy flying out far into the belt but do so safely.
IMO the easiest approach would be making T1 stuff get even less efficient than now, but generate lowest radiation signature. This way you both offer some extra safety to noobs, lower reward for low risk and give stealthy ships valid drawback.

So the option for someone who want to fly far with low risk: build small out of inefficient parts. Not only you'll be harder to find, but you'll also loose less when it happens.
 

Venombrew

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
367
#23
@CalenLoki that isn't a bad idea but I am more interested in methods players devise on their own when thinking out of the box, sorta what FB is hoping for as well, at least i think so. devices created by players that they come up with that can give them an edge, and sharing that information is upto them. This is a good way to break up meta issues when players can create their own specified devices, example would be thruster dummies you can drop from your ship that just spin spewing radiation to confuse pirates, or a series of dummy transponders to again confuse others. I think FB in mind sees something where you got players from different groups and factions using and creating their own tech, making it extremely valuable and worth protecting. With that kind of freedom, instead of narrow designs and flavors of the month you could end up with a wide variety of different styles of in game tech. Not much different in sci-fi settings where you got different species in the galaxy with technology that differs drastically from one another.

That is what i am personally hoping to see eventually, where i can identify different factions tech i come across however i come across it. I think it could really drive player interaction too, people willing to share their designs and breakthroughs, while you got others always trying to steal it to benefit from it.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
106
#24
Leaving your ship just outside the safezone, cloud or not, is just begging to be robbed.
Exactly!
But It's not what I do on regular terms. I mean emergency cases like you are in the end of a 12h mining-trip. It's 40 minutes to the safezone ...and some axident happens in the real world.
I've been thinking what could prevent the player from using this device every time. Maybe a 10% ship cost fine? Or making the device single-use and expensive. And/or increasing fine if you use it more often than some limit (48h or something).
 

XenoCow

Master endo
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
477
#25
I mean emergency cases like you are in the end of a 12h mining-trip. It's 40 minutes to the safezone ...and some axident happens in the real world.
This sounds like you're in need of some kind of panic button. If there was a device that could detect dust density, then if could be possible to press a single button and have your ship fly to a dust cloud and shut off there. Such a device might be helpful for detecting dust materials for deciding where to set up a station too. Like a material point scanner's volume field but for dust.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
106
#26
This sounds like you're in need of some kind of panic button.
Yes!
But what I mean by "panic button" is the right to do in-game-stupid things (not often and for a price). Finding an optimal dust cloud may take another 10-20 minutes. It's not the best scenario when hot water or something worse is spilling all over the place. Ofcourse, between saving my real-world stuff and saving my ship I will choose real-world stuff. But I don't want to make the choise at all.
 

pavvvel

Active endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
33
#27
Exactly!
But It's not what I do on regular terms. I mean emergency cases like you are in the end of a 12h mining-trip. It's 40 minutes to the safezone ...and some axident happens in the real world.
I've been thinking what could prevent the player from using this device every time. Maybe a 10% ship cost fine? Or making the device single-use and expensive. And/or increasing fine if you use it more often than some limit (48h or something).
No, no and no.
It has been explained to you many times that such ideas ruin many interesting game mechanics. why are you only thinking of yourself?
You are proposing an idea that will kill the gameplay of other players! stop promoting it, respect other players.
 

pavvvel

Active endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
33
#28
Yes!
But what I mean by "panic button" is the right to do in-game-stupid things (not often and for a price). Finding an optimal dust cloud may take another 10-20 minutes. It's not the best scenario when hot water or something worse is spilling all over the place. Ofcourse, between saving my real-world stuff and saving my ship I will choose real-world stuff. But I don't want to make the choise at all.
If you are talking about the "panic button" as a system button (like a "menu" or "settings" button), then You are proposing mechanics that will abuse and break the gameplay of many players.
If you have a pipe problem at home - you need to fix it before you run the game.
The probability of a critical situation in real life when you are in a dangerous place in the game is extremely low and you need to accept that risk. Or are there 10 broken pipes in your flat every day?
Realize that the introduction of these mechanics will inevitably lead to 100500 suggestions for more and more mechanics that will continue to kill the gameplay of this game piece by piece. Or do you want like in Elite Dangerous private mode, blocklist and combat logging without consequences...?

to make a "panic button" use the tools that are in the game.
 
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Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
14
#29
Yes!
But what I mean by "panic button" is the right to do in-game-stupid things (not often and for a price). Finding an optimal dust cloud may take another 10-20 minutes. It's not the best scenario when hot water or something worse is spilling all over the place. Ofcourse, between saving my real-world stuff and saving my ship I will choose real-world stuff. But I don't want to make the choise at all.
Stop the ship and install a station block nearby. After 10 minutes, a safe zone will be formed that will protect your ship. (this is a disgusting mechanic, but it exists, so why not use it)

In addition, you can direct your ship to the exit of the belt or towards the nearest safe zone and let it fly on its own, relying on the avoidance system.

Or just stop the ship and go fix the pipes. Nothing is likely to happen to your ship. Seriously, it's pretty hard to spot a ship that's not moving. It can be seen from only 5 kilometers or so, while for an observer this unloaded model is sometimes hardly distinguishable from asteroids.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
367
#30
Stop the ship and install a station block nearby. After 10 minutes, a safe zone will be formed that will protect your ship. (this is a disgusting mechanic, but it exists, so why not use it)

In addition, you can direct your ship to the exit of the belt or towards the nearest safe zone and let it fly on its own, relying on the avoidance system.

Or just stop the ship and go fix the pipes. Nothing is likely to happen to your ship. Seriously, it's pretty hard to spot a ship that's not moving. It can be seen from only 5 kilometers or so, while for an observer this unloaded model is sometimes hardly distinguishable from asteroids.
drop that knowledge!
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
33
#31
Someone pls make a separate game suggestion about removing the 10 minute activation of the station's safe zone. It's an abusive game mechanic that kills other players' gameplay
 
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Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
14
#32
Someone pls make a separate game suggestion about removing the 10 minute activation of the station's safe zone. It's an abusive game mechanic that kills other players' gameplay
I absolutely agree. The deployment of the station's safe zone should take at least 6-12 hours of real time. And not these funny 10 minutes. In addition, the station's starting block should cost incomparably more.

Now it's a consumable that can be used as a travel beacon giving a signal for 500 km or as a damn fast-deployable safe zone. And then when you don't need the station, you easily give it up and do \ buy a new one.

In addition, I believe the station should receive some maintenance. A small expenditure of resources that the player must contribute once a week or two. Stations that do not receive service should turn into ghostly and available for looting. This will at least save us from the dead abandoned cubes scattered here and there.
 
Joined
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Messages
728
#33
I absolutely agree. The deployment of the station's safe zone should take at least 6-12 hours of real time. And not these funny 10 minutes. In addition, the station's starting block should cost incomparably more.

Now it's a consumable that can be used as a travel beacon giving a signal for 500 km or as a damn fast-deployable safe zone. And then when you don't need the station, you easily give it up and do \ buy a new one.

In addition, I believe the station should receive some maintenance. A small expenditure of resources that the player must contribute once a week or two. Stations that do not receive service should turn into ghostly and available for looting. This will at least save us from the dead abandoned cubes scattered here and there.
TBH rather than timer I'd like to see them requiring certain size to get SZ. So you can do it in an hour, but hour of work, rather than waiting.
Or even make SZ size dynamic, as the smallest sphere that can fit entire station+5m.

Agree on upkeep too. Nothing too demanding (i.e. a single fuel rod per week, with no way of stacking more), just to filter out abandoned stations.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
33
#34
I absolutely agree. The deployment of the station's safe zone should take at least 6-12 hours of real time. And not these funny 10 minutes. In addition, the station's starting block should cost incomparably more.

Now it's a consumable that can be used as a travel beacon giving a signal for 500 km or as a damn fast-deployable safe zone. And then when you don't need the station, you easily give it up and do \ buy a new one.

In addition, I believe the station should receive some maintenance. A small expenditure of resources that the player must contribute once a week or two. Stations that do not receive service should turn into ghostly and available for looting. This will at least save us from the dead abandoned cubes scattered here and there.
This not only breaks the game for those who like to search for other people's ships, but it also breaks the mechanics the developers talked about - searching for ships by radiation/other factors (sorry for the inaccuracy).

I think it is possible for players who are making a station for the first time to make a low price for the station block. starting from the 2nd station increase the price. The time of appearance of the safe zone for the first station can be left at 10 minutes. For the second - a day.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
14
#36
Aren't ships only simulated when hosted by someone? Are you expecting that you'd be able to logoff then log back in later in the safe zone? (Assuming you don't overshoot).
We all know that the space in the starbase is solid and only endos have a way to liquefy it and move things. xD I mean that anton_stechkin can literally quit controlling the game and go fix his unreliable pipes while his ship continues to move.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
106
#37
I've been thinking. On matters of phylosophy and justice. Of risc and reward, universe e.t.c.
And I came to conclusion that taking an unpiloted ship apart is not PVP. And leaving your ship outside the SZ is not "risc". I's just a flaw in the overhaul game mechanics. You are supposed to be a robot, that needs no sleep, food and anything but more resources and power. There is no logical in-game explanation why the robot leaves the ship for several days or does nothing for at least for 80% of time (if you play not more than 5h every day).
So the universe would seem more alive if unmanned ships just disappeared. They can not fight anyway! So by giving players the chance to loot unmanned ships you just give them somenthing for nothing.

I know your concern. Why not leave the ship in the middle of a fight?
Well, I have a suggestion. Behold: the despawner-jamming device!
It acts like a wide-range cannon (or a hand-hold tool). You get a visual on the ship you want to attack. You target it with the jammer-device for several seconds. And boom! The ship can not despawn until the source of jamming signal or the attacked ship reaches a safezone or the source of jamming signal is destroyed. So if you want to fight - you will get a fight. But a real fight. With something that is able to shoot back or at least run away. And if you used the jammer, your ship will not be able to despawn until the attacked ship is destroyed (zero speed, no active generators and dead or offline owner) or in the safezone. So the fight would be ... a fight.
 
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Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
106
#38
Another way to stop a fight would be some kind of peace-agreement. It disables ship and infantry waepons for some time and enables the despawner and weapons when the distance between the combatnts is beyond visual detection range.
 
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Mar 19, 2021
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106
#40
Maybe you have another fair concirn: how to tell an abandoned ship from an unmenned ship?
That's simple. The ship becomes partialy abandoned (does not despawn but still has an owner) after the owner uses the ensurance transfer or respawns on some other ship. The ship stops being "partialy abandoned" after the owner puts his shiny metal butt in the pilot chair of the ship, or pushes any button on the ship.
 
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