I am Just going to say this Once FB

[J.D.]

J.D., after seeing your reply I've edited my post. I hope that it's less inflammatory. I think it better represents what I wanted to say without the distraction associated with its original bite and critical tone.

I appreciate it. Though, i disagree with your points. if im interpreting you right, you are basically saying that the game needs to be more creative, and less combative. Pve, with pvp elements.
Do you think this will attract a larger player base? do you think twitch streamers, and youtubers will get alot of content with doubling down on the creative side, and trying to be more restrictive towards pvp? Why do you think our playerbase is down to 1500 today? People can currently join the game, and spend months building whatever they want. Do you think that faster travel, and easier resource gathering will be the answer? and just bar the pvp side? If this was your game, in detail, what would this game be like?

of course, we are waiting to see what Lauri has in store for pvp. I personally believe it will make or break the game. Because if this creativity alone, was really such a big deal, the hype would be so big for the game right now because that has been the focus of the recent updates. Dont get me wrong, i love creativity. Half the reason im here. Just looking for the other half. Today they just released a ton of content for creative purposes. check out the player base number. we will wait and see what happens. But, i do believe the pvp element will make or break this game. if im wrong, i have no problem admitting it. and ill do it in this forum, because my passion for this argument is not of pride, or grief, but a game ive wanted to play since i was a kid. So, we shall see.

one more thing. you sound like youd like a game called "starship evo" its been out on EA for a while now. you can build so many things, and they look better than this game, there is more freedom with shapes. so everything is so sleek.. Ive seen them build little cities, huge ships, mechs, hover tanks, hover cars, battle suits, you name it, with tons of detail. That community has made amazing things. its mindblowing. there is no pvp. at all. there is private servers you can spawn in pirates to attack in game atm. most of it is just building. (i dont play it, but i followed until i saw a conversation in their discord on this game) thing is though.. there are only 7 people online right now. maybe because its all not one server? maybe they just want more content in things to do with pve? it just makes me think...

 

[Shulace]

I appreciate it. Though, i disagree with your points. if im interpreting you right, you are basically saying that the game needs to be more creative, and less combative. Pve, with pvp elements.
Do you think this will attract a larger player base? do you think twitch streamers, and youtubers will get alot of content with doubling down on the creative side, and trying to be more restrictive towards pvp? Why do you think our playerbase is down to 1500 today? People can currently join the game, and spend months building whatever they want. Do you think that faster travel, and easier resource gathering will be the answer? and just bar the pvp side? If this was your game, in detail, what would this game be like?

of course, we are waiting to see what Lauri has in store for pvp. I personally believe it will make or break the game. Because if this creativity alone, was really such a big deal, the hype would be so big for the game right now because that has been the focus of the recent updates. Dont get me wrong, i love creativity. Half the reason im here. Just looking for the other half. Today they just released a ton of content for creative purposes. check out the player base number. we will wait and see what happens. But, i do believe the pvp element will make or break this game. if im wrong, i have no problem admitting it. and ill do it in this forum, because my passion for this argument is not of pride, or grief, but a game ive wanted to play since i was a kid. So, we shall see.

one more thing. you sound like youd like a game called "starship evo" its been out on EA for a while now. you can build so many things, and they look better than this game, there is more freedom with shapes. so everything is so sleek.. Ive seen them build little cities, huge ships, mechs, hover tanks, hover cars, battle suits, you name it, with tons of detail. That community has made amazing things. its mindblowing. there is no pvp. at all. there is private servers you can spawn in pirates to attack in game atm. most of it is just building. (i dont play it, but i followed until i saw a conversation in their discord on this game) thing is though.. there are only 7 people online right now. maybe because its all not one server? maybe they just want more content in things to do with pve? it just makes me think...

Twitch streamers gaining views or not off of a game is not necessarily the games' fault or a solid measure for a game's success, for instance Eve Online numbers are not fantastic at all but Minecraft, which I find absolutely boring has absolutely bonkers numbers that blows all other hardcore PVP survival games out of the water combined. Both Minecraft and Eve are highly successful but you can see Eve is just not comparing to Minecraft in terms of audience. Just different groups of people, a lot of younger gamers play Minecraft and older gamers prefer MMOs, and I am willing to bet there are not as much older gamers as the younger ones.

You can sort of tell this by looking at console sales, you can combine both the latest generation of Playstaton and Xbox sales and multiply them by 4 and its still less than the number of Switch consoles sold. Nintendo targets younger audience and makes bank, no matter how ridiculous and overpriced most of their games are. Fortnight, Apex, etc. had similar success because of the target audience.

What about Starbase target audience? Well, most of us are people that can sit down and wrack our brains over spreadsheets like in Eve and the SSC and mind numbingly mine rocks all day. Most folks don't have this kind of patience and if you don't then you are the minority here, yes really, that's why we only have around 2k average players, everyone like you left or are on hiatus till their gameplay loop gets properly implemented.

Most gamers do not like space games or MMOs, just as I don't like Minecraft or even space engineers. I got hooked on shipbuilding from DU, but only in an MMO setting as I prefer MMO above all other genres. The Ark/Rust/DayZ kind of survival games are the kind I absolutely abhor.
My creations can easily reach other random players here, and I have made a lot of credits this way in Starbase already. For me personally, its cool that other people use my designs. This is why I play, if you are really dissatisfied with the game currently take a break and come back later, PVP will be improved upon over time, its just that what is here now is not complete or a proper loop for PVP, just some barebones PVE loop and mostly friendly PVP fun unless you want to sit on a gate all day and camp.

I am only one person and this is what I like, I am still here because the game is still fun for me. Evidently there are many like me here. You have to decide what you like and look at the game for what it is currently, it's going to get better for PVP and PVE but I doubt it's going to be geared towards toxic Ark/Rust-like one sided offline raiding nonsense.

Starbase is by no means perfect but shifting heavily to PVP with no NPC to prepare newbs for combat is a tough ask being a game that requires SIGNIFICANT time investment to even get to PVP ready and the PVP risks are HIGH. The game is clearly creative/PVE heavy foundation and that is where the bulk of the current playerbase is, intended or not. Until more game loops and content gets added, especially PVE side, the playerbase will not grow, PVP in a game like this heavily depends on playerbase size. The dedicated PVP playerbase for games like this is SMALL, just check other space sims that try to do MMO themes, like Elite Dangerous for instance. Most their players just play private to enjoy the game for what it is and explore, this is why they still have players.

BONUS suggestion: Remove asteroid collision damage and far more players will venture outside safezone into the belt, as we all know repairing is just a nightmare after a big collision lol. This would not reduce the use of things like asteroid collision script as you will still need those to keep heading if you are venturing far out into the deep belt because collisions do change your heading.

 

[J.D.]

You compared to Minecraft. You said so yourself that is a different audience. It’s not even an mmo. Absolutely. Those kids aren’t coming here to try to figure this game out. Also, my type is a minority here. Yea, you are right. Not many of us left. But the game is sitting at 1500 ish and dropping.You sound completely content with this number. A massive space like this, and only 1500. You don’t care for the game to grow. As long as you are safe, am I right?.. and yes, we have pvp down the road, I have high hopes for it, and I’ll wait around to see what’s in store. My aggravation is mainly focused on the community who is trying to talk the devs into making pvp smaller. But, it’s whatever. I feel silly mostly for arguing these points. I guess time will tell the truth. Did you see what I said about starship evo? Why do you think it’s not doing well? Check out the creativity in that game. I use reference to that game because it seems like this entire anti pvp audience would be obsessed with that game. Because there is zero pvp, and also no collision damage. And the ships look 10x better than ours. But, 7 people were on last night. Why? Once again, this reference because it’s a space ship building game. You can even build your own turrets.. no pvp, no collision damage. Building ships is way way faster in that game. The building mechanic has shapes you drag to expand if you wanted to. It’s easy to add detail, and create much faster. All ships can fast travel. The game has programming, just way easier to understand. Sounds like paradise for this pve crowd, it even has Minecraft-like private servers. So, you’ll never play with anyone who will grief you. 7 people is low low. Like game is dead low, and isn’t going to recover low. Their discord has a handful of very dedicated players in it. Real passionate about the game, and really good builders. But, the numbers just aren’t there. Ofc, the game only had one dev, and I think he’s just real passionate about the game. He has no team to provide for, just his personal passion. So he might not care for numbers… but, I think a game like this one will most likely be a completely different story…. But, Lauri did recently express a care for keeping the pvp people around, and not just pve. So, we will see what comes.

 

[LauriFB]

One more thought: the more mature (and higher paying) crowd doesn't have a lot of time. Putting a lot of effort into something and having it destroyed by other players with little skin in the game is a sure way to have them disengage. Another way is to require so much grind that they never engage in the first place. Eve has this problem, as do most MMOs. Unless you're designing this for a younger audience with a lot of free time, you might consider another look at the time investment required for travel, resource gathering, and research, as well as the time lost when ships are destroyed by accidents or during PVP.

I hope this helps, and I'm super excited to see your vision come to life!

Cheers for the support

I agree with the time consumption, and currently game is not what it is intended to be in that sense. Automation and capital ships should pave the way for more controlled losses in the final game, and allow also brief but fun play sessions.

 

[esabrats]

My aggravation is mainly focused on the community who is trying to talk the devs into making pvp smaller.

Then consider a different perspective. There are a couple of axes along which you could describe a PVP system, but ones that stand out to me are:
- Consensual vs. non-consensual: are both parties wanting the PVP engagement?
- Risk vs. reward: how much does either party risk? what is their reward for winning and potential downside?
- Speed of getting back into the game after a win/loss.
- Fun when winning vs. when losing. This is a game after all.

A lot of complaints that I've read come from non-consensual PVP that is not fun for the loser and where the loser risks a lot more than the winner. There are ways to adjust this so that it's not as miserable, not as risky, and more consensual. I'll quickly analyze a game that I think does this really well (masterful, really, compared to what came before) and with which I'm hoping you're familiar.

In Dark Souls you can completely opt out of PVP. You miss out on some parts of the game but you can still interact online, leave messages, be summoned to help other players, etc. So even if you're opting out of PVP you're still helping the game world feel inhabited and alive.

If you do chose to engage with PVP you have a consensual option (summon red phantom or invade), or a nonconsensual option (be invaded). In all cases, there are careful tools available to even the odds, since invaders risk little progression and can invade frequently. Invaders have less health but don't get attacked by enemies. The invaded can summon phantoms. Blue phantoms are automatically summoned to help the invaded. If you go into a boss room, the invader is ousted. Certain items can make enemies attack the invader. The list goes on. All of it is carefully designed to make it a fun experience for both. I loved invading AND getting invaded in DS.

I think emulating the careful balance of something like DS will mean that there will be a healthy PVP scene AND the world will feel alive and inhabited as people flex in and out of it.

 

[DOKTOP_9ID]

Ha-ha. They think that PVP kills the game. Fools. This game is dying from the fact that there is no normal PVP

 

[J.D.]

O

Then consider a different perspective. There are a couple of axes along which you could describe a PVP system, but ones that stand out to me are:
- Consensual vs. non-consensual: are both parties wanting the PVP engagement?
- Risk vs. reward: how much does either party risk? what is their reward for winning and potential downside?
- Speed of getting back into the game after a win/loss.
- Fun when winning vs. when losing. This is a game after all.

A lot of complaints that I've read come from non-consensual PVP that is not fun for the loser and where the loser risks a lot more than the winner. There are ways to adjust this so that it's not as miserable, not as risky, and more consensual. I'll quickly analyze a game that I think does this really well (masterful, really, compared to what came before) and with which I'm hoping you're familiar.

In Dark Souls you can completely opt out of PVP. You miss out on some parts of the game but you can still interact online, leave messages, be summoned to help other players, etc. So even if you're opting out of PVP you're still helping the game world feel inhabited and alive.

If you do chose to engage with PVP you have a consensual option (summon red phantom or invade), or a nonconsensual option (be invaded). In all cases, there are careful tools available to even the odds, since invaders risk little progression and can invade frequently. Invaders have less health but don't get attacked by enemies. The invaded can summon phantoms. Blue phantoms are automatically summoned to help the invaded. If you go into a boss room, the invader is ousted. Certain items can make enemies attack the invader. The list goes on. All of it is carefully designed to make it a fun experience for both. I loved invading AND getting invaded in DS.

I think emulating the careful balance of something like DS will mean that there will be a healthy PVP scene AND the world will feel alive and inhabited as people flex in and out of it.

man, we have repeated it so many times. There is a safe zone. In that zone you will never ever die. You can mine in this safe zone, you can build on this safe zone in complete and total safety. No one can so much as annoy you without a ban. No exaggeration. We have seen proof. When you cross that safe zone, you sign a contract saying you are accepting the risk. Lauri spelled out that the safe zone is for noobs, and for people who don’t want risk. The rest of space is hostile. It’s up to you whether or not you cross that line, and only you. And y’all gota stop playing victim. Pro pvp people risk everything when they cross that line, just like you do. We are all equal.

 

[enjey]

man, we have repeated it so many times. There is a safe zone. In that zone you will never ever die....

As already mentioned, the safe zone doesn't help much in balancing the pvp interactions, it just gives the players some room for learning the basics and to recover from loss. It has no influence on the risk and reward in pvp space. Please understand, there are very few pure pve players here, most like pvp and want to fight - just not if they have no hope of "reward" for the risk taken, be it a win or something else. The balance in pvp space itself is important and cannot be achieved with the safe zone alone.

I already posted one link in another thread of yours, but you probably missed it. It's an explanation about balancing consensual vs. non-consensual pvp from an albion developer, a game that is among the very few that achieved growth in an open world full loot pvp setting. It is precisely about how hard should it be to catch and kill potential victims, you might want to check it out.

There are really a lot of sources online about the issues with unrestricted non-consensual pvp. If you are more into video, there are many of these as well. If you want to check out a recent take on the subject, just google "Josh Strife Hayes Why Hardcore Full Loot PVP MMO's Fail".

One last thing:

... We are all equal ...

We are all equal, but some are more equal that others. Especially when it comes to available game time.

 

[J.D.]

As already mentioned, the safe zone doesn't help much in balancing the pvp interactions, it just gives the players some room for learning the basics and to recover from loss. It has no influence on the risk and reward in pvp space. Please understand, there are very few pure pve players here, most like pvp and want to fight - just not if they have no hope of "reward" for the risk taken, be it a win or something else. The balance in pvp space itself is important and cannot be achieved with the safe zone alone.

I already posted one link in another thread of yours, but you probably missed it. It's an explanation about balancing consensual vs. non-consensual pvp from an albion developer, a game that is among the very few that achieved growth in an open world full loot pvp setting. It is precisely about how hard should it be to catch and kill potential victims, you might want to check it out.

There are really a lot of sources online about the issues with unrestricted non-consensual pvp. If you are more into video, there are many of these as well. If you want to check out a recent take on the subject, just google "Josh Strife Hayes Why Hardcore Full Loot PVP MMO's Fail".

One last thing:


We are all equal, but some are more equal that others. Especially when it comes to available game time.

ok, so you speak as if you have more to lose than anyone else here. you dont. If me and you went head to head, which of us would win? you have just as much of a fair shot as i do. If i lose, i have to recover the loss, just like you do. You speak as if there are these big bad men out there whos going to steal your lunch. go steal theres.

as far as recovery, we have factories that can piece together your blueprint. All you gota have is the materials, and you are set, your base makes your ship, off you go. Automation is definitely a thing.

I am a hardcore fan of the way things are right now. The way i see it, is any more safe ish zones, then rarer ores become accessible to players without danger.. thats a hard no for me. .. I have played albion online. im aware of the blue, yellow, red, and black zones, as well as the dungeons associated with them.

The safe zone is plenty big for you to do what you need to do in it. Everyone is learning the exact same way you are. no one has special privileges, or short cuts in learning how to pvp. besides, every ship is built different. you have to adjust for your build. every ship will feel different. what it boils down to is you tweaking the levers sensitivity and things like that. you can learn all this in one of the yolol learning communities. when i make a ship, i test fly it alot to get the results i want. nothing is going to prepare you perfectly for who you go up against. you have to just swallow that fear, and say f it, and just do it. just like any other pvp game, experience from losing is what makes you better. if you cant do that, pvp might not be for you. part of pvp is losing. If you absolutely cannot lose without ruining your fun, stay away from pvp. thats a personal thing. Not the game's fault..

There are many reasons to pvp, no one really needs one. its definitely ok just to want to pew pew. But, if you are looking for a reward, we have refineries coming. right now there isnt much you can do. But you can sell the parts. Later we will be able truly salvage everything, and bring the parts back to a raw material form. So, you can make money off pvp if you have a means of transporting the parts. Some will go to war with enemies to take over an area of space to have access to rare ores. Thats what the devs have said many times. Of course, the rare ores are in non safe zones. so to access those materials, you are in danger. risk vs reward...

If you have any ideas at all that do not involve growing the safe zone, im probably much more likely to maybe agree on the idea. But, the game is still being developed. If a large part of the community does not like something, the devs will work on it.

 

[Shulace]

You compared to Minecraft. You said so yourself that is a different audience. It’s not even an mmo. Absolutely. Those kids aren’t coming here to try to figure this game out. Also, my type is a minority here. Yea, you are right. Not many of us left. But the game is sitting at 1500 ish and dropping.You sound completely content with this number. A massive space like this, and only 1500. You don’t care for the game to grow. As long as you are safe, am I right?.. and yes, we have pvp down the road, I have high hopes for it, and I’ll wait around to see what’s in store. My aggravation is mainly focused on the community who is trying to talk the devs into making pvp smaller. But, it’s whatever. I feel silly mostly for arguing these points. I guess time will tell the truth. Did you see what I said about starship evo? Why do you think it’s not doing well? Check out the creativity in that game. I use reference to that game because it seems like this entire anti pvp audience would be obsessed with that game. Because there is zero pvp, and also no collision damage. And the ships look 10x better than ours. But, 7 people were on last night. Why? Once again, this reference because it’s a space ship building game. You can even build your own turrets.. no pvp, no collision damage. Building ships is way way faster in that game. The building mechanic has shapes you drag to expand if you wanted to. It’s easy to add detail, and create much faster. All ships can fast travel. The game has programming, just way easier to understand. Sounds like paradise for this pve crowd, it even has Minecraft-like private servers. So, you’ll never play with anyone who will grief you. 7 people is low low. Like game is dead low, and isn’t going to recover low. Their discord has a handful of very dedicated players in it. Real passionate about the game, and really good builders. But, the numbers just aren’t there. Ofc, the game only had one dev, and I think he’s just real passionate about the game. He has no team to provide for, just his personal passion. So he might not care for numbers… but, I think a game like this one will most likely be a completely different story…. But, Lauri did recently express a care for keeping the pvp people around, and not just pve. So, we will see what comes.

You missed the part where I said I played mostly MMOs. Also I am also exclusively operating outside of the safezone when not in the SSC and if I am not mining I am hunting pirates and other fighters.

Have you heard of Star Wars: Squadrons? I think you will like that one, nothing but PVP and probably the best first person spaceship PVP out there currently according to reviewers, no safezones, no carebears, instant PVP. They have less than 200 players on steam charts(Don't lose hope though as it does support crossplay and I do not have a reference for those numbers), So I guess the PVP crowd is fantastic. Made by Motive Studios under multibillion dollar publisher EA and launched on Dec 3, 2020.

My argument is about as compelling as yours. Also to note, Space Engineers has 4600 players currently and No Man's Sky is at almost 14K!!! which is kind of crazy for games that old that does nothing but PVE right? That's just the market, you will get PVP content but prioritizing PVP over PVE gameplay and loops and we will have about the same numbers as Starship Evo this time next year lol. Just be patient.

I have yet to see a PVP ONLY space sim game go up in player count over time, show me a game that set this precedent and I will believe the folks that think PVP is the way for player count in Starbase.

 

[J.D.]

You missed the part where I said I played mostly MMOs. Also I am also exclusively operating outside of the safezone when not in the SSC and if I am not mining I am hunting pirates and other fighters.

Have you heard of Star Wars: Squadrons? I think you will like that one, nothing but PVP and probably the best first person spaceship PVP out there currently according to reviewers, no safezones, no carebears, instant PVP. They have less than 200 players on steam charts(Don't lose hope though as it does support crossplay and I do not have a reference for those numbers), So I guess the PVP crowd is fantastic. Made by Motive Studios under multibillion dollar publisher EA and launched on Dec 3, 2020.

My argument is about as compelling as yours. Also to note, Space Engineers has 4600 players currently and No Man's Sky is at almost 14K!!! which is kind of crazy for games that old that does nothing but PVE right? That's just the market, you will get PVP content but prioritizing PVP over PVE gameplay and loops and we will have about the same numbers as Starship Evo this time next year lol. Just be patient.

I have yet to see a PVP ONLY space sim game go up in player count over time, show me a game that set this precedent and I will believe the folks that think PVP is the way for player count in Starbase.

well, first i think we might have had a misunderstanding to think i only want pvp. thats not true. I completely support pve. I didnt want this to be a pvp only game, i was hoping the two would actually work together. but it seems as if the pve side wants nothing to do with pvp players.. I was hoping to see eve like factions that have all player types working together to be self sufficient. then wars and all that shit would be really in depth, and cool. I have no problem with safe zone what so ever. i support it 100 percent. Ive just interpreted alot of people saying thats not enough. but it is without breaking the game for balance sake. Plus, the game has a steep learning curve. No, i do not, by any means, want this game to be pvp only. So lets get that straight. I have said this multiple times before. maybe not enough. Without a safe zone, i believe the game would fail. Absolutely. But, we have one. And i believe it should only harbor T1 materials. which it does. So, i have not felt compelled to talk about it, because that part has been very well taken care of.

I do know that pvp is coming, thats why im still here. I personally think that if Lauri made a post to go into detail to address the pvp side that he hasnt forgotten them would be so good. I know he hasnt forgotten, but it would look good. he recently made a comment that didnt look so good. I sympathize to an extent though. if people really are attacking the dev team, thats not cool. and i want no part of it. and it makes sense to have the mechanics in place for building and stuff first, so that way everyone can default back to their safe bases where their inventory is. Unless they are raided, of course, because they are in non safe space. it makes sense. Im just battling this "pvp bad" crap. It does feel silly to be honest. lol its best to just wait and see. these conversations would be so much more useful when the content starts to come out, ill admit.

 

[Shulace]

well, first i think we might have had a misunderstanding to think i only want pvp. thats not true. I completely support pve. I didnt want this to be a pvp only game, i was hoping the two would actually work together. but it seems as if the pve side wants nothing to do with pvp players.. I was hoping to see eve like factions that have all player types working together to be self sufficient. then wars and all that shit would be really in depth, and cool. I have no problem with safe zone what so ever. i support it 100 percent. Ive just interpreted alot of people saying thats not enough. but it is without breaking the game for balance sake. Plus, the game has a steep learning curve. No, i do not, by any means, want this game to be pvp only. So lets get that straight. I have said this multiple times before. maybe not enough. Without a safe zone, i believe the game would fail. Absolutely. But, we have one. And i believe it should only harbor T1 materials. which it does. So, i have not felt compelled to talk about it, because that part has been very well taken care of.

I do know that pvp is coming, thats why im still here. I personally think that if Lauri made a post to go into detail to address the pvp side that he hasnt forgotten them would be so good. I know he hasnt forgotten, but it would look good. he recently made a comment that didnt look so good. I sympathize to an extent though. if people really are attacking the dev team, thats not cool. and i want no part of it. and it makes sense to have the mechanics in place for building and stuff first, so that way everyone can default back to their safe bases where their inventory is. Unless they are raided, of course, because they are in non safe space. it makes sense. Im just battling this "pvp bad" crap. It does feel silly to be honest. lol its best to just wait and see. these conversations would be so much more useful when the content starts to come out, ill admit.

Great! Well you understand.

The devs are people too, they are trying their best to manage the community expectations, nothing is set in stone but I trust in their work. The foundation needs to be built up before gameplay loops like PVP can be supported effectively. Think of the game as an ocean reef ecosystem and PVP as the sharks, at the present we have some fish but not a lot of the coral to support the fish so the fish population is low and thus the shark population is low. In time once the reef grows and more corals(game loops and features) get added, everything should grow in theory.

The core foundation so far is good and that's why I think the game will eventually be more successful.

 

[Captain Garp]

There's no way in hell PvP is the reason this game has taken a population dip. No one has been ganked that frequently that any one needs to be warning of some impending PvP exodus. Game just needs content, that's the reason people have quit, not being killed or ganked. There's just not that much to do right now.

It kind of feels like these days when ever a game dies or takes a population dip and also has PvP the PvE only players are all to eager to dogpile PvP as this boogey man for game failure when it's not always the cause, idk.

I encourage the Devs to also be wary of the PvE echo chamber and just take both sides into account, most of your PvP crowd just wants content and to have PvE only players constantly make reductive statements that are far from the truth for simply wanting PvP content feels really bad as well.

 

[Jakaal]

Solely? No, PvP isn't the sole reason, but it is part of the reason. When someone spends 50 to 60 hours working on a ship and then realizes it can be blown to shit within seconds once they leave the safe zone, and depending on what route they took building their ship, they may have to start over from scratch? Yeah, that isn't a good state for the game to be in.

 

[Eranok]

I believe most topics here are non issues.

In starbase, you CAN make any ship you want.
But is it a good decision to do so ?
People who design their 5 millions miner for 50 hours then farm it, and lose it in a solo mining trip just made a decision mistake. And decision making process is a part of the core of the game. Strategy. Some of them blame the game instead of learning, hence we have those discussions.

Is the game balanced? absolutely. It takes 2 mining trips (about 1h) with a 60boxes laborer to make
(1) a maxspeed 60 boxes miner OR
(2) a maxspeed 2 autocannons fighter OR
(3) a maxspeed 2 tripod fighter

Is pvp consensual? it is. Going out of safezone is agreeing on the risk.
Do you risk too much in the game? No. You chose what you risk. It cannot be 'too' much by definition
Is it hard to get back into the game? It takes 1 hour (see above)
Not enough safezone? safety is everywhere. Just go far.

Is pvp rewarding? Open question. Fight can be rewarding. Loot is meh, requires further dev.
Is the game doing a good job at teaching its gameplay mechanics / learning curve? Also open question.

 

[J.D.]

Solely? No, PvP isn't the sole reason, but it is part of the reason. When someone spends 50 to 60 hours working on a ship and then realizes it can be blown to shit within seconds once they leave the safe zone, and depending on what route they took building their ship, they may have to start over from scratch? Yeah, that isn't a good state for the game to be in.

Thats not just the “state” it’s in. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. That’s the outcome they were shooting for. Automation is a thing in game. If yoi don’t want that risk, don’t take it. If anyone even tries to make uou leave the safe zone, they will be banned. So it’s only your call.

 

[Venombrew]

Solely? No, PvP isn't the sole reason, but it is part of the reason. When someone spends 50 to 60 hours working on a ship and then realizes it can be blown to shit within seconds once they leave the safe zone, and depending on what route they took building their ship, they may have to start over from scratch? Yeah, that isn't a good state for the game to be in.

why we have saved blueprints, so when this happens all you literally have to do is re-farm that ore to build it, pretty basic and easy.

 

[Jakaal]

why we have saved blueprints, so when this happens all you literally have to do is re-farm that ore to build it, pretty basic and easy.

Cool, except you only get BPs one of the three ways you can build a ship right now. Use either of the two other methods and you're starting over with zero. And that is NOT the way it's supposed to be. The fact you three seem to think that is fine and dandy for a game is a big part of why these types of PvP focused games never do very well. A game that deliberately wastes huge amounts of player effort is not fun for very many people.

 

[J.D.]

Cool, except you only get BPs one of the three ways you can build a ship right now. Use either of the two other methods and you're starting over with zero. And that is NOT the way it's supposed to be. The fact you three seem to think that is fine and dandy for a game is a big part of why these types of PvP focused games never do very well. A game that deliberately wastes huge amounts of player effort is not fun for very many people.

WhAt are you saying? That you want a free bp of a ship so that you don’t have to put in any effort? Safest route is to stay in the safe zone, build a station there, with a factory. So you’ll never start over. Your base cannot even be raided in a safe zone. Problem solved. You just have to build the base first, once you have your inventory, and factory going, it would be wise to not enter the non safe zone unless you can replace the ship you have at least once… there is still the issue that this community is not acknowledging there is a gigantic safe zone that you can do absolutely anything in that does not involve killing or annoying another player.

 

[Venombrew]

@J.D. i feel ya man, i wouldn't worry tho, the average player isn't the one actually complaining if you have noticed. what your seeing is more on the lines of buyers remorse for not paying attention to what people are actually paying for. i got a station in eos belt, and i got one in the moon belt, and one feeds the other. since my moon belt station is in a pvp zone i have to consider that losses are going to happen rather by a player or even a cluster of asteroids. But that is why i got a fully built station for my needs in Eos's belt, to support my risks no matter how they turn out and a place to rebuild in safety until im ready to risk the non safe zone. Same formula for every craft game that has been out in the last 10 years, dont know why it is a hard thing for people to grasp. We do this in almost all games mmo, craft based, w/e. you start small and safe build up to gain resources and then expand.