I am Just going to say this Once FB
- Thread starter Shulace
- Start date
Mpst Pvpers already left - becouse there is no real pvp in game.
Oly people stil playing are those who are not that focused on PvP so naturally only PvErs can write complaints on forums.
result is that PvPers left becouse of no PvP and people writing "why population decreased" are those who want even less pvp so they blame people leaving on too much pvp, when what cause population exodus was not enough of it.
Quite hillarious.
And I noticed this trends happen in many new MMo games.
PvP and hardcore games are drawn into new MMO by prospects of actual open(all loot) PvP, they find out these promised were not delivered, they leave and the only crowd left and vocal is people wanting safe spaces, and pampering that you have in hundreds of MMOs .So Game becomes even more casual and imited on PvP.
Oly people stil playing are those who are not that focused on PvP so naturally only PvErs can write complaints on forums.
result is that PvPers left becouse of no PvP and people writing "why population decreased" are those who want even less pvp so they blame people leaving on too much pvp, when what cause population exodus was not enough of it.
Quite hillarious.
And I noticed this trends happen in many new MMo games.
PvP and hardcore games are drawn into new MMO by prospects of actual open(all loot) PvP, they find out these promised were not delivered, they leave and the only crowd left and vocal is people wanting safe spaces, and pampering that you have in hundreds of MMOs .So Game becomes even more casual and imited on PvP.
left or waiting for more content? average pvper who bought into this EA knew it was barebones, they are not gone just waiting for more content like all sandbox games in EA. you got players who hang around during the wait and those who wait offline, just like most mmos. you have moments even in fully released finish games, they get a dip in players until the next big patch comes out. pretty common occurences.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2020
- Messages
- 40
There's those reductive statements I was talking about. Regardless, this is just non sense. I've played MMORPGs with massive content droughts and when those happen it's only the PvP community left making content for them selves.
Also silly to say all of the PvPers left, look at the population my guy, every one left. I myself am not playing until there's more content and I don't feel any shame in doing so. I enjoy PvE and PvP, there's not really either atm, it is what it is. The base of this game is excellent I have faith that soon enough we'll have things to do.
Also silly to say all of the PvPers left, look at the population my guy, every one left. I myself am not playing until there's more content and I don't feel any shame in doing so. I enjoy PvE and PvP, there's not really either atm, it is what it is. The base of this game is excellent I have faith that soon enough we'll have things to do.
Yes, yes, and while they are "waiting" what i said my previous post is happening, so game is gradualy steering more into oposite directio nfrom what they'd want.
Since devs listen to "feedback", and the only feedback is those saying There is too much pvp, we need more safezones, we cannot allow people to loose their ships without any copensation, we need to make piracy harder ,we need reputation system to PUNISh those evil pirates etc.
So game becomse that.And eventually there is never anything worth coming back to for those who were waiting for meaningfull open pvp, becouse game is developed for those pves and carebears.
It is same reason democracy is dead end: there is alot more stupid peole than there is smart people.
Since devs listen to "feedback", and the only feedback is those saying There is too much pvp, we need more safezones, we cannot allow people to loose their ships without any copensation, we need to make piracy harder ,we need reputation system to PUNISh those evil pirates etc.
So game becomse that.And eventually there is never anything worth coming back to for those who were waiting for meaningfull open pvp, becouse game is developed for those pves and carebears.
It is same reason democracy is dead end: there is alot more stupid peole than there is smart people.
wow the game has only been out in EA for like 7 weeks, i mean seriously what were you guys expecting and is this your first EA game? honestly these conversations shouldn't even be going on yet this early in EA. can we give the devs some time to actually get a game going? or were you guys thinking EA is a short lived process? its common knowledge as info from the devs already that this will not see full release for a year and half to possibly two years. with the constant updates they keep rolling out do you honestly think they are done already? at this point that is what it seems that the ones complaining and whining imagined this was a finished copy.
i recommend you guys do so game design production research, cause coding mechanics doesn't happen overnight, programming the code to make the game playable doesn't happen overnight, models are not designed overnight. new bugs happen when new things are added, its a fact, do you honestly think those problems are fixed in a day? there is a amount of time needed in all the many areas of designing a game, and that includes bringing in new content, balance fixes which can only happen until people are testing those issues. Hell you guys might as well go play a different game, cause your spending more time bitching about an EA than actually playing it.
i recommend you guys do so game design production research, cause coding mechanics doesn't happen overnight, programming the code to make the game playable doesn't happen overnight, models are not designed overnight. new bugs happen when new things are added, its a fact, do you honestly think those problems are fixed in a day? there is a amount of time needed in all the many areas of designing a game, and that includes bringing in new content, balance fixes which can only happen until people are testing those issues. Hell you guys might as well go play a different game, cause your spending more time bitching about an EA than actually playing it.
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I'll comment on random snippets:
- Many of the hardest parts of our technology are pvp-focused; that is for a reason: pvp has massive focus in the final game. Currently there's not much pvp or pvp players since there's none of the features needed
- Pvp is not going anywhere and generally speaking we really don't listen to any requests which are asking us to destroy the game. If there for example would be requests to "do not create pvp incentives" or "make game fully pve" those would be ignored. However, game features will steer away from plain griefing and unhealthy pvp.
- There are very good reasons to have a break and come back later when the features are done; but if someone is enjoying the current state of the game let them do so. If it seems ship creators are now having more things to do that is not away from the pvp crowd but it's more content for the future pvp encounters.
- As many of you have stated, the final game experience only begins when the big features in the roadmap are done. There's also one additional feature missing: the explanation how stations become lucrative to build and attack.
LauriFB
what is your outlook on players self policing, by being able to find and hunt down specific players outside safe zone?
It could in some cases lead to players leaving the game, but i think there can be some arguments risen up that it has many positive aspects to it.
One would be .. well self-policing unwanted individuals.
Second it allows for actual diplomacy betwen groups that really matters.
what is your outlook on players self policing, by being able to find and hunt down specific players outside safe zone?
It could in some cases lead to players leaving the game, but i think there can be some arguments risen up that it has many positive aspects to it.
One would be .. well self-policing unwanted individuals.
Second it allows for actual diplomacy betwen groups that really matters.
Well, they have defined it in a post on the first page of this thread.
There will always be the occasional ragequit, but from what I can understand, they intend to design the game around the idea that there will be less people quitting.
Let's take an example:
Me and a friend was exploring the astroid belt around the moon the other day in an old hulk of a ship we had strapped a warp core to. We were looking for some Ymrium to cash in on the recent price hike. After a few hours and no luck finding the ore we wanted, an Amphirite showed up near us. We thought that someone that would bring such an expensive ship out here had a good chance of having some good loot on board. So we decided to sneak up on him and use the element of surprise to kill him and steal his loot. We only had a tripod and our assault rifles, and it was our first encounter outside the safe zone, so we didn't take the chance on trying to force him to send us money. We manage to damage his ship and kill him, but he only had low level ores on board, and the ship was non functioning afterwards. We ended up getting away with a few of his warpcore parts, as ours had bugged out when we tried to fix it. The guy starts ranting in /zone chat. Asking why we killed him when he hadn't done anything to us. We answered him that we wanted to steal his stuff, but we could tell he was less than happy about it.
Now, I see this as a case of what would be described as unhealthy pvp. We didn't get much from it, except a bad conscience. He didn't get much from it other than perhaps an adrenaline rush when we attacked him and he tried to escape. I also see several ways this could have been turned into a case of healty pvp.
The first would be to incentivise arming yourself when going to a pvp zone. Cause if he would have been armed, the combat with us would have been much more fun. As it was now, we were the only ones armed, and thus it was a lobsided battle, no fun for us, no fun for him. If encounters with hostile players are so rare that people don't think of arming themselves when they go into a pvp zone, then I see a good incentive to put some sort of PvE encounter into the game, be it NPC ships or spacewhales or whatever, just look at how much more lively Sea of Thieves got after they added some skeleton ships to the game.
Another way it could be improved is some sort of scanner that let's the attacker figure out the worth of someones ship/cargo. This way you can better know what to demand when pirating someone. I'm also unsure how to best contact people in such an encounter, like, how far does /say reach?
I think a lot of the problem with such encounters is that they are so rare, so people get used to being able to go out into the pvp zone, and thinking they'll be allright. But the one time they do encounter hostiles, it turns into a bad experience since they're not prepared and they're not equipped for it. Increasing the chance of such encounters to happen would lessen this, and an insurance system could be introduced to lessen the blow of losing your ship. Exactly how that would fit into the macro economic situation of the game, I'm not sure.
The point I'm trying to make is, the way I understand their philosophy is that they want to design the game in such a way that pvp encounters will be more fun for both parts, and lessen the chance of encounters like I described above, where it turns into a bad experience all around.
There will always be the occasional ragequit, but from what I can understand, they intend to design the game around the idea that there will be less people quitting.
Let's take an example:
Me and a friend was exploring the astroid belt around the moon the other day in an old hulk of a ship we had strapped a warp core to. We were looking for some Ymrium to cash in on the recent price hike. After a few hours and no luck finding the ore we wanted, an Amphirite showed up near us. We thought that someone that would bring such an expensive ship out here had a good chance of having some good loot on board. So we decided to sneak up on him and use the element of surprise to kill him and steal his loot. We only had a tripod and our assault rifles, and it was our first encounter outside the safe zone, so we didn't take the chance on trying to force him to send us money. We manage to damage his ship and kill him, but he only had low level ores on board, and the ship was non functioning afterwards. We ended up getting away with a few of his warpcore parts, as ours had bugged out when we tried to fix it. The guy starts ranting in /zone chat. Asking why we killed him when he hadn't done anything to us. We answered him that we wanted to steal his stuff, but we could tell he was less than happy about it.
Now, I see this as a case of what would be described as unhealthy pvp. We didn't get much from it, except a bad conscience. He didn't get much from it other than perhaps an adrenaline rush when we attacked him and he tried to escape. I also see several ways this could have been turned into a case of healty pvp.
The first would be to incentivise arming yourself when going to a pvp zone. Cause if he would have been armed, the combat with us would have been much more fun. As it was now, we were the only ones armed, and thus it was a lobsided battle, no fun for us, no fun for him. If encounters with hostile players are so rare that people don't think of arming themselves when they go into a pvp zone, then I see a good incentive to put some sort of PvE encounter into the game, be it NPC ships or spacewhales or whatever, just look at how much more lively Sea of Thieves got after they added some skeleton ships to the game.
Another way it could be improved is some sort of scanner that let's the attacker figure out the worth of someones ship/cargo. This way you can better know what to demand when pirating someone. I'm also unsure how to best contact people in such an encounter, like, how far does /say reach?
I think a lot of the problem with such encounters is that they are so rare, so people get used to being able to go out into the pvp zone, and thinking they'll be allright. But the one time they do encounter hostiles, it turns into a bad experience since they're not prepared and they're not equipped for it. Increasing the chance of such encounters to happen would lessen this, and an insurance system could be introduced to lessen the blow of losing your ship. Exactly how that would fit into the macro economic situation of the game, I'm not sure.
The point I'm trying to make is, the way I understand their philosophy is that they want to design the game in such a way that pvp encounters will be more fun for both parts, and lessen the chance of encounters like I described above, where it turns into a bad experience all around.
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I am a PVP player with 16 years of MMO experience and I can say 100% that PVP cannot be sick or healthy, it either exists or it does not exist.
The current state of Starbase is frustration and boredom, and for more than a week I can't think of a reason to log in to the game.
And given the imminent release of the New World... only SSC fans and unhappy newcomers who will see a huge empty world will remain in SB.
You can say as much as you like that the game is in alpha and not a finished product, but if the game for which I paid money disappointed me and became not interesting to me, then there is a great chance that I will not return to it later because I already see the direction of development and the vision of gameplay by developers with their atmosphere of "healthy PVP".
The current state of Starbase is frustration and boredom, and for more than a week I can't think of a reason to log in to the game.
And given the imminent release of the New World... only SSC fans and unhappy newcomers who will see a huge empty world will remain in SB.
You can say as much as you like that the game is in alpha and not a finished product, but if the game for which I paid money disappointed me and became not interesting to me, then there is a great chance that I will not return to it later because I already see the direction of development and the vision of gameplay by developers with their atmosphere of "healthy PVP".
Actually, no. The non safe zone is supposed to kill everyone. That’s actually exactly the way Lauri said it. I don’t feel bad for that guy. He made the decision to leave the safe zone. That behavior he had was terrible. He knew the mechanics, he opted for danger, and tried to make you feel bad by exercising your right to shoot in a non safe zone. The pve people have their safe zone. They can’t have both. That is so so so toxic.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2021
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- 19
My 2 cents on the pvp subject.
The point of pvp in most games is usually 1 of three 1: Just blow something up, 2: Defend/attack territory, 3: A reward. Currently only #1 is possible, and they try to provide that in the form of pvp stations. #2 and #3 aren't possible yet as there is no territory to fight over and there is no way to really loot a destroyed ship. Inventory 2.0 and scrapyard mechanics will help make #3 a possibility. Until then everything devolves into #1, which becomes unhealthy when you blow up a defenseless player for the sole reason of blowing them up. This game is like eve where leaving the safe zone means pvp is a go, but there's more to it than that. Players flyout in defenseless ships because nearly every mining ship in the shops are completely undefended. A new player would have to spend numerous hours learning the ship designer just to make a defendable ship, that and a mining ship with guns would likely need to be manned by more than 1 person since it would need a miner and a gunner, since miners aren't as maneuverable as fighters, forward mounted guns are pointless.
Eve is a very successful game that makes pvp a possibility at all times. The difference is ship in starbase is worth way more time and money compared to in eve. A simple mining barge in eve can pay for itself in an hour or two depending on what you mine, and the player didnt even have to design it. A player who zooms in on a mining ship risk almost nothing compared to the miner since they will almost always win. Another comparison to eve is information and preparedness. In starbase, the person hunting the mining ships almost always has the element of surprise as there is no way to atm for a player to know something is approaching. Couple that with the fact that they cant even run since they are at the absolute best, the same speed as the hunting player and you realize that there is almost no way for a miner to win. Even if a mining ship had defenses the meta right now favors small fast ships due to the paper mache armor and crap turrets.
This all becomes less of a issue once #1 and #2 are added, since right now getting blown up feels like shit because you know there is no reason to do it other than they wanted to blow you up.
Ill end this buy saying I want the risk of getting blown up when leaving the safe zone to remain, but something needs to change to give people a fighting chance and an understanding as to why they are being attacked. Also make ships not so damn expensive.
The point of pvp in most games is usually 1 of three 1: Just blow something up, 2: Defend/attack territory, 3: A reward. Currently only #1 is possible, and they try to provide that in the form of pvp stations. #2 and #3 aren't possible yet as there is no territory to fight over and there is no way to really loot a destroyed ship. Inventory 2.0 and scrapyard mechanics will help make #3 a possibility. Until then everything devolves into #1, which becomes unhealthy when you blow up a defenseless player for the sole reason of blowing them up. This game is like eve where leaving the safe zone means pvp is a go, but there's more to it than that. Players flyout in defenseless ships because nearly every mining ship in the shops are completely undefended. A new player would have to spend numerous hours learning the ship designer just to make a defendable ship, that and a mining ship with guns would likely need to be manned by more than 1 person since it would need a miner and a gunner, since miners aren't as maneuverable as fighters, forward mounted guns are pointless.
Eve is a very successful game that makes pvp a possibility at all times. The difference is ship in starbase is worth way more time and money compared to in eve. A simple mining barge in eve can pay for itself in an hour or two depending on what you mine, and the player didnt even have to design it. A player who zooms in on a mining ship risk almost nothing compared to the miner since they will almost always win. Another comparison to eve is information and preparedness. In starbase, the person hunting the mining ships almost always has the element of surprise as there is no way to atm for a player to know something is approaching. Couple that with the fact that they cant even run since they are at the absolute best, the same speed as the hunting player and you realize that there is almost no way for a miner to win. Even if a mining ship had defenses the meta right now favors small fast ships due to the paper mache armor and crap turrets.
This all becomes less of a issue once #1 and #2 are added, since right now getting blown up feels like shit because you know there is no reason to do it other than they wanted to blow you up.
Ill end this buy saying I want the risk of getting blown up when leaving the safe zone to remain, but something needs to change to give people a fighting chance and an understanding as to why they are being attacked. Also make ships not so damn expensive.