Mouse Control - just one request

pavvvel

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
208
#1
Hi.
The roadmap shows that mouse control will be done in Q4.

I ask to pay attention to only 1 thing that can be done now to greatly improve gameplay: to use pitch and yaw on the mouse you have to press C. ok. the problem is that the ship keeps manoeuvring until the mouse cursor returns to the centre.
If you fix just this one point, the game will immediately become much better. Right now, controlling the ship with the mouse is extremely difficult and uncomfortable.
...The only change would be to remove the need for "centering". And then do the rest in Q4.
A lot of players really need this
 

pavvvel

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
208
#4
Given that there will now be new weapons on tripods, the lack of mouse control will make the game even more imbalanced. arrow ships on rail tripods will be stronger. as it is extremely difficult for the player who opposes them (the ship pilot) without mouse control.

please speed up the improvement of the controls.
All I ask for now is to remove the dead zone from the ,,C-button" mode and to remove the need for centering.

I personally know players who refused to buy the game because there is no mouse control =(
 

ChaosRifle

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
225
#5
-Centering
-Adjustable deadzone (right now it has a 10% deadzone, which is unusable imho)
-Relative-mode (star citizen, ship moves when mouse moves only, but no cursor on screen. Basically like turning for an endo, its actually quite good) I think this is mandatory too. it REALLY helps for precision
-A keybind to toggle relative mode on and off, again, like star citizen. I frequently toggle mid-combat between the two.
-Better mouse input all-together - the mouse input is 'notchy' and jumps when you try to move only one pixel. long range precision is impossible because of it. The band-aid fix is to crank your DPI insanely high and then lower your windows sensitivity, but its a bad solution because mouse dpi is linear, and windows is logrithmic. They dont line up nicely to have the same effective sensitivity.
-a device to invert values without yolol (x*-1) so turrets on the bottom of the ship work realtime, (no yolol delay) (this one is dangerous, becuse with a NOT & AND gate you can do any computation, so you would accidentally enable hardware computer creation if you added an AND gate somehow, sidestepping yolol delays)
-have an option to loose the yellow UI box. its useful for debug (particularly for sticks) but gets in the way usually.
 

CalenLoki

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
741
#6
-Relative-mode (star citizen, ship moves when mouse moves only, but no cursor on screen. Basically like turning for an endo, its actually quite good) I think this is mandatory too. it REALLY helps for precision
Endo control is non-physical and instant, so adapting it for the ships is not an option.
The only thing that would make it a bit more like that would be adding cursor/camera stabilisation (makes cursor/camera point in a constant direction relatively to world coordinates, even when ship is turning)
-a device to invert values without yolol (x*-1) so turrets on the bottom of the ship work realtime, (no yolol delay) (this one is dangerous, becuse with a NOT & AND gate you can do any computation, so you would accidentally enable hardware computer creation if you added an AND gate somehow, sidestepping yolol delays)
You can just switch min/max values on the underside turrets. I.e. from -180 -> 180 to 180 -> -180
 

pavvvel

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
208
#7
Lots of content coming soon - when the fleet carriers are added.
But I'll have to skip that...sad. Like many of my friends who are waiting for mouse control to be added to the game.
I ask the developers to pay attention to this.
I want to play but can't because there is no mouse control.
And there are a lot of people like me.
 

ChaosRifle

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
225
#8
Endo control is non-physical and instant, so adapting it for the ships is not an option.
You misunderstood the content there. I am not suggesting infinite torque on pitch/yaw, as i actually think the combat needs pitch and yaw further limited. Its hard to explain other than while mouse moving ship is moving, while mouse not moving, ship not moving. The idea is SIMILAR to endo camera controls in scheme and scheme alone, the torque is relative to what the craft can generate. Functionally this is a lower sensitivity. Go try relative mode in SC, for as much shit as I give them, they did get that right.

You can just switch min/max values on the underside turrets. I.e. from -180 -> 180 to 180 -> -180
This wasnt specifically in reference to advanced turrets, that support 180, it was regarding the hard limit of nothing exceeding 20 on the other turret bodies.. I have come up with black magic to bypass this for now by inputting a larger value to force it to do the same angle anyways, though it is a pretty bad solution. Turrets just need improvement.
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Messages
576
#11
how many PC players have a joystick (hint: barely any) vs how many PC users have a mouse (hint: most of them) tho

How many people are actually playing the game and what equipment do they use and prefer? I don't care about most people. Most people don't play space combat games. I care about what is the better experience. Mouse control for flight is trash in 2D space. It's not going to suddenly be better in 3D space.
 

kiiyo

Veteran endo
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
136
#13
How many people are actually playing the game and what equipment do they use and prefer?
I will bet you a pot of borsht that most people who play SB don't have joysticks to do it.
I don't care about most people.
lol did I just read that right
Mouse control for flight is trash in 2D space. It's not going to suddenly be better in 3D space.
better than keeb controls, and more accessible than joysticks.

My dear Cavilier, I hope you do understand that videogames are played by humans (and especially the very player-driven vision of Starbase that you so desperately strive toward), so if you multiply the amount of PC players with joysticks by the amount of people who play SB (both are tiny as hell), you get a super-tiny number, and ditching a very accessible feature to develop something for a very small group is... a management decision that would be in a textbook - and not as an example of a good decision, not at all.
 

pavvvel

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
208
#14
Mouse control for flight is trash in 2D space. It's not going to suddenly be better in 3D space.
In Elite Dangerous players can control the ship perfectly with the mouse, and with the flight assistant disabled. in Star Citizen too.

Mouse control is necessary! and urgently.
Many people don't want to play SB because there is no mouse control.
Many, like me, only play mining and ship editor because there is no mouse control.
 

Oobfiche

Well-known endo
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
66
#16
isint there also like 3 types of mouse movement in games and people only perfer one that locks the mouse and the other "follows" it?
 

ChaosRifle

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
225
#17
isint there also like 3 types of mouse movement in games and people only perfer one that locks the mouse and the other "follows" it?
pretty much. Star citizen for all its issues is a good example of mouse control done right. some of these come from there:

1: Relative mode is where the ship tries its best to behave like a first person shooter, where it maps 1:1 with your mouse movements themselves, much like controlling the endo camera, or camera in the SSC. This has the limitation of top speed and torque for the ship, so it will limit how fast you can move to the constraints of the ship, thus can be slightly jarring to see a maximum turn rate to FPS style controls, but offers REALLY good precision when implemented correctly.

2: where you put the cursor where you want to go/shoot, and the ship will turn to face it, keeping the cursor facing XYZ angles, and bringing the nose of the ship to the point of aim, thus returning the aim point to the center of the screen again.

3: what we have now, where it endlessly turns in the direction pointed. For this system to work, it NEEDS configurable deadzone (this used to be done by lever, IDFK what FB was thinking forcing a massive 10% deadzone on us with a hotfix... WTF. I use a 0.27% deadzone in SC. 10% is INSANE. Generally not the preferred way to fly, but offers good control for gimbal guns that fire at the cursor, much like SC.

4: not really its own thing, but hybrid. Having a keybind toggle button to swap between 1 and 2/3, because relative has its place, and so do the other two. Even in combat, it is normal to swap in and out of relative mode (1) in sc, depending on the task/range to enemy.
 

shado20

Veteran endo
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
196
#18
we have mouse control...
fix your centering problem with the levers and script...
you have the tools already!
 

kiiyo

Veteran endo
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
136
#19
we have mouse control...
fix your centering problem with the levers and script...
you have the tools already!
There's a hard-set 10% deadzone which is unusuably huge, and I don't really see how levers and the (purposefully) slow language of YOLOL could help fix it in any way.

Mouse Control needs fixes, by the devs. And if they feel inclined, maybe even communication with the community about these fixes.
 

ChaosRifle

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
225
#20
There's a hard-set 10% deadzone which is unusuably huge, and I don't really see how levers and the (purposefully) slow language of YOLOL could help fix it in any way.

Mouse Control needs fixes, by the devs. And if they feel inclined, maybe even communication with the community about these fixes.
Kiiyo is correct.
Yes, at launch there was NO deadzone, and the lever defined the deadzone. AS IT SHOULD.
A hotfix in the first month of EA added a hardcoded deadzone that can not be worked around without using yolol to change 10-100 to be 0-100, as a percentage. It is possible, but slow and introduces yolol delay. suddenly you have at best a 0.2 second delay to pitching your ship. its awful, and unusable that way.

If you don't agree, I can write you an AHK script and we can go fight on SC, and see how you like a forced 0.2s delay. Its unplayable for combat, and not fun to play with full-stop.


As for communication with the community, that would be nice, but I think this thread really sums up what we need. maybe add a sensitivity option for it and xy inversion of mouse direction. Generally speaking though if they have good experienced FPS players on staff that would call themselved FPS snobs with pride, then just checking this thread should really give them pretty much everything we need from them.
 
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