star base's in StarBase

Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
43
#1
Purely from my point of view, capital ships and station sieges are of course fine, but first of all, players should have at least some reason to build these stations.

At the moment, the station is just a cube with inventory creating a piece of a safe zone around itself. The station is now a trunk, or if you like a closet filled with garbage that it's a pity to throw away, but it's just too lazy to take it to the auction.

Yes, we have construction in EBM-mode (God, when I touch this mode after SSC, it seems to me that my hands were cut off and matches were inserted instead of them. I literally feel like a cripple who physically cannot perform the simplest manipulations).
But this construction has no practical purpose. No matter how much you decorate your chest, it still remains an ordinary chest.

So what will players defend and attack when capital ships and sieges are brought into play? Abandoned closets with useless junk? Does the average player have at least a drop of motivation to defend the besieged station now?

No, not amorphous notions of honor and prestige of the faction and not a fan of the opportunity to shoot at anything. I'm talking about motivation from its most pragmatic side - the ratio of costs and profits from the event. And from this point of view, there is no reason to defend the station. What am I lose? A chest with unnecessary ore that it is not profitable for me to export? Hah, I'll just give it up, step aside for 100-200-300-1000km and put a new one.

In order for such motivation to work, it is necessary that the stations are not a chest in which you can temporarily put the resources extracted nearby before sending them to the origin ring, but on the contrary concentrate these resources in themselves.

I'm talking about the fact that we need damn material processing chains, a sane cycle of parts production (workbenches on which a robot makes a plasma engine out of dirty ore is bullshit), logistics systems inside production shops and methods of delivering the right materials \gases\alloys to machines producing certain parts\materials\gases\alloys. Only then It already makes sense to protect such a station, where there is a well-established cycle for the preprocessing of lucium into beautiful pink rivets for bolt tools.
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UPD I completely forgot about it, thanks pavvel for the reminder.

There is another aspect that makes the motivation to protect your stations very weak. This is an extremely low cost of the starting block. Ask any player engaged in transporting or mining large quantities of resources far beyond the original safe zone: What are you carrying in your inventory? I'm willing to bet that 80 if not 90% will name the workbench and the starting block of the station.

And no, they are not going to equip the base. The station block is for them, it's part of the emergency kit.

Why?
It costs significantly less than a ship (a measly 250-300k at auction), and of course less than a ship stuffed with expensive ore, it generates a safe zone in just ten minutes and it is an excellent beacon giving a signal (the visibility of which can also be adjusted individually) for as much as 500 km. As a result, the station block is an ordinary consumable, like a magazine for a laser rifle or a pipe-laying machine.

10 minutes Carl! Pocket safe zone in just ten minutes and a measly 300k!
 
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ChaosRifle

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
226
#2
Yes, we have construction in EBM-mode (God, when I touch this mode after SSC, it seems to me that my hands were cut off and matches were inserted instead of them. I literally feel like a cripple who physically cannot perform the simplest manipulations).
I really can't emphasize this enough. Seriously, if it wasn't for the carrot on the end of the stick being hangar halls and cargo halls for capital ships/stations, id completely ignore its existance as a repressed memory. SSC. Please. Seriously, this needs to be a priority. 5m/s movement is unacceptable when touting 100m as minimum size, much less with "up to 5km".
EDIT: To be clear, its already painful in PTU, and thats for minimum viables that you dont put effort into.


Regarding material processing, this was the plan originally, but seems to have been axed in favor of alloy fab. Personally, id be for both to add depth, and also allow further control to the value of items added to the universe. IE ai ships made of ore not refined ore, derelicts etc too.
 
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pavvvel

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
231
#3
BlackAndWhiteBird, add to your post the information that even the base station start-block itself must be changed. Right now the station base setting is abusive to quickly and easily create a safe zone anywhere in the galaxy.
 

ChaosRifle

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
226
#4
Ive said it a lot, but I'll put this into a forum post -
- I'd like to see (Eventually, currently the state of the game doesn't work for this) all safezones on stations deleted.
- Stations would only take damage from seige, but no safe zone to run and hide in. (much like capital ships were stated to be, and how they sometimes work on the PTU.. bugs aside.) The way to protect ships would be via hangar halls (an already planned feature) to store them.

With the ball turrets/station reconstruction machine/tripods on stations, you can protect yourself, but it requires active combat, rather than just getting within a safety bubble.
It would have the knock-on effect of making docking to a station more interesting too, because parking without a safezone can be hazardous to a bad pilot.

My experience from ArmA/Dayz has taught me that SZ's will get abused in any way possible, and the best result to keep everyone happy due to their gamey nature, is to just remove them when possible. I know not everyone likes their safety bubble being removed, but some risk does make everything more interesting, even if that risk is loss of only the ships you are using, not the ones in storage. I really just want more people shooting at me, more often, with more threat of attack. Max speed limit being so acheivable for all ships results in a lack of interest to chase, as you know they can just dive into a safezone and immediately be immune to an attack. There are other solutions to this, but this post is about stations and long enough, not the speed limit.

People will complain that this allows your base to be camped/griefed, but my counter is that ball turrets provide a near perfect shield for the gunner, and can be mounted with interior access - functionally making the gunner immune to damage. Camping a base becomes very difficult, but diving in for a quick attack is viable. Personally, if this were implemented, I'd likely put my reconstruction machines on my stations next to the turrets for fast access.

EDIT: Apon further thought of how I would exploit this, I would probably try to offensively place stations down and drop a ball turret to get an invulnerable pocket turret. Some sort of system would be required to prevent placing a system like this out of your pocket, and in ten minutes having an invulnerable offensive position for some or other task.
The obvious reason being seige, though could be countered by just not allowing new stations to place in the warzone, or disabling all safety in the warzone. None the less it could pose a problem.
 
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Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
43
#7
- You mean something like "satisfactory"- style big factory of anything in space? I like it!
That's exactly what I mean. A station where the production or processing of something is deployed.

Any production or processing requires resources that are concentrated at the station through trade, user contracts and/or direct supply by the owners of the station. In addition, it will definitely take time and money and (I really hope for it) some mental effort to build the production.

It really makes sense to protect such a station or try to rob \ seize it.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
39
#8
That's exactly what I mean. A station where the production or processing of something is deployed.

Any production or processing requires resources that are concentrated at the station through trade, user contracts and/or direct supply by the owners of the station. In addition, it will definitely take time and money and (I really hope for it) some mental effort to build the production.

It really makes sense to protect such a station or try to rob \ seize it.
FWIW there has been some talk of automated production being a future feature of stations.

It is currently unclear how sophisticated these production lines would be or what the level of infrastructure necessary to support them might be, but the devs commentary on the subject has definitely indicated that they see such stations as being drivers for conflict.
 

CalenLoki

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
741
#9
It depends on how strong the bubble of the ball turrets is as to how protected the gunner is.
Within that idea, ball turret is part of the station, so is 100% invulnerable unless besieged. Same for slaved yolol turrets with gunner sitting behind thin sheet of glass.

I'm all for such version of station protection. The only problem is that it's vulnerable to cheaters who phase through walls (i.e. using the fact that end loads before other objects)
 
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