Dual Universe wich was very similar to starbase, kill the MMO side of the game with too much safe zone. To answer your answer, the civil capital ship just need to put itself on the belt and fill as much as it wants without any danger, for EOS indeed the belt is very large but for elysium the belt is so small that to get on the edge of belt without risk is game breaker. By principe anything in PVP zone can't be invulnerable plus what is the point to fight if you can just stay arond your civil capital ship and farm without any danger ?
Starbase Progress Notes: Week 33 - Capital Ship insight (2021)
- Thread starter ElluFB
- Start date
Figured you were going to mention DU which has a massive difference to SB even with CCAPS. Here's the problem with comparing the two. DU died not just due to SZ issues. The problem was you can't PvP really in DU at the level you can with SB. The promised Avatar v Avatar and v Structure PvP is not even in the game regardless of SZs. Then the SZ around planets add to those problems, especially when one can just travel fast to get to them to dodge PvP. None of those issues are here.
You say you can park a CCAP near the belt, you must be aware of details nobody else here is. FB has yet to tell us the exact distance AWAY from the belt CCAPS can park. THAT is a massive detail to assume and makes a large difference in how advantageous CCAPS can be. Now if they can literally park on the edge of the visible belt then sure that would be somewhat problematic. However even with that the ships going out to mine will be vulnerable and there's still the need to grab coordinates.
I think folks need to really calm down on the whole "CCAPS are going to ruin this game" until we see EXACTLY how they're implemented. I assume FB is very aware of the fears given just how vocal SOME are being about it. One thing that can address this is making sure the distance from the belt is a decent enough distance to make them have a pretty big disadvantage that one has to consider. Obviously don't want it to be an outrageous distance or else the disadvantage would be too punishing.
Either way CCAPS in no way, shape, or form is ANYTHING similar to the nonsense that is DU that destroyed itself from multiple angles. SZs was just one of the problems multiplied the the lack of features and the horrendous way they implemented features (even with Ship PvP, that system was horrendous).
You say you can park a CCAP near the belt, you must be aware of details nobody else here is. FB has yet to tell us the exact distance AWAY from the belt CCAPS can park. THAT is a massive detail to assume and makes a large difference in how advantageous CCAPS can be. Now if they can literally park on the edge of the visible belt then sure that would be somewhat problematic. However even with that the ships going out to mine will be vulnerable and there's still the need to grab coordinates.
I think folks need to really calm down on the whole "CCAPS are going to ruin this game" until we see EXACTLY how they're implemented. I assume FB is very aware of the fears given just how vocal SOME are being about it. One thing that can address this is making sure the distance from the belt is a decent enough distance to make them have a pretty big disadvantage that one has to consider. Obviously don't want it to be an outrageous distance or else the disadvantage would be too punishing.
Either way CCAPS in no way, shape, or form is ANYTHING similar to the nonsense that is DU that destroyed itself from multiple angles. SZs was just one of the problems multiplied the the lack of features and the horrendous way they implemented features (even with Ship PvP, that system was horrendous).
Wouldn't compare an Atlas Freeport to a SB CCAP either...many differences to that as well if details are looked at. Think it's unfortunate that SZs in other games are causing folks to assume the very same outcomes in this game because details are being skipped right over that are major differences. This would be a very good example of where two radically different SZs are being looked at all the same. So as a result the outcome is assumed to play out the same which they won't.
I see the video and still don't see why the fact they can't go in the belt is reassuring, you can pop an indestructible mobile station next to a belt and recolt safely without any danger, still seem broken for me. You can have a huge cargo that can't be attackable and can fast travel to a friendly station without any risk. Risk/Reward= lot of reward , no risk
I believe many are aware of it but refuse to see the details of such (I mentioned a bit in my previous comment). All these folks are seeing are permanent SZs and that's all that matters for them. That alone gets them hating CCAPS long before details are produced and before they even enter the game. I'm afraid many of them are also simply looking at other SZs in other games and instantly comparing that to a CCAP SZ despite the fact that the two are radically different from the other.
Atlas and Dual Universe were two examples brought up though neither are good examples to use. This shows the mindset though of why folks are instantly hostile towards the CCAP idea because those games had a magnitude of other design problems to include their SZs.
Atlas and Dual Universe were two examples brought up though neither are good examples to use. This shows the mindset though of why folks are instantly hostile towards the CCAP idea because those games had a magnitude of other design problems to include their SZs.
I don't imagine the safety range on the CCAPs is going to provide much protection range to mine safely. If its the same range as a station (300m?) Then you wont find many rocks in that range while still being outside the belt.
If your CCAP gets found, it can still be pirated by people waiting outside your range. I'd like to see some ship modules to help track down capital ship signatures, I think this would provide some potential for content-creation.
I don't think the safety of CCAPs is a problem, I think the bigger issue is the ability to find other players. It's so easy to avoid other players at the moment. in all my time at my deep belt station, in the many many trips back to origin, I have never seen another soul. This might not be your experience, but i'm not afraid of pirates with how prohibitive it is to travel far.
Heck, if anything CCAPs also provide an awesome forward operating base for people hunting miners without having to make a hundred km journey for some juicy targets.
Just my two cents, we don't know a lot about how these things will function, building costs, warp costs, safety ranges. It might be a little premature to judge some of it at the moment too harshly.
If your CCAP gets found, it can still be pirated by people waiting outside your range. I'd like to see some ship modules to help track down capital ship signatures, I think this would provide some potential for content-creation.
I don't think the safety of CCAPs is a problem, I think the bigger issue is the ability to find other players. It's so easy to avoid other players at the moment. in all my time at my deep belt station, in the many many trips back to origin, I have never seen another soul. This might not be your experience, but i'm not afraid of pirates with how prohibitive it is to travel far.
Heck, if anything CCAPs also provide an awesome forward operating base for people hunting miners without having to make a hundred km journey for some juicy targets.
Just my two cents, we don't know a lot about how these things will function, building costs, warp costs, safety ranges. It might be a little premature to judge some of it at the moment too harshly.
My opinion is not just related to CCAPs, but most forms of PVP, and that's one of my biggest concerns is the map being rather large, I rarely bump into people when far away, but then again that's because most people are in the ship designer 24/7. I just want Frozenbyte to show some clear direction for the PVP within Starbase.
I don’t think capital ships will reduce PvP. In fact likely the opposite.
First: shooting up an unarmed ship that has just spent 2 hours mining isn’t great PvP. It’s super easy for the pirate as the other ship just dies. And it sucks no end for the miner as they lose too much and rage quit. This isn’t really that fun for either party. And creates game ending situations where players give up on Starbase as the loss is too harsh, (especially as most people who get attacked are new players and didn’t know about transponders). So finding a better balance is really important, and smaller moving safe zones may do just that (which can always be tweaked).
Also, PvP at 300km deep in the belt just isn’t a thing anyway. Things are so spread out at this point you can’t find anyone.
A good PvP setting is where both sides have a lot to lose, and address the issue of finding people. Intro, Capital ship battles with stations. They should be like mini PvP events that everyone is alerted to, time and location.
Then capital ships introduce the need for much more resources, and give stations more purpose this is just good all round. And space battles with lots of loss just keeps the flow of goods moving.
First: shooting up an unarmed ship that has just spent 2 hours mining isn’t great PvP. It’s super easy for the pirate as the other ship just dies. And it sucks no end for the miner as they lose too much and rage quit. This isn’t really that fun for either party. And creates game ending situations where players give up on Starbase as the loss is too harsh, (especially as most people who get attacked are new players and didn’t know about transponders). So finding a better balance is really important, and smaller moving safe zones may do just that (which can always be tweaked).
Also, PvP at 300km deep in the belt just isn’t a thing anyway. Things are so spread out at this point you can’t find anyone.
A good PvP setting is where both sides have a lot to lose, and address the issue of finding people. Intro, Capital ship battles with stations. They should be like mini PvP events that everyone is alerted to, time and location.
Then capital ships introduce the need for much more resources, and give stations more purpose this is just good all round. And space battles with lots of loss just keeps the flow of goods moving.
EXACTLY.
Pull up to the wrong location with your CCAP that's now stationary for a little bit for charge up time and you'll find yourself under blockade. Good luck accomplishing anything but having wasted resources warping their. Yeah you have your CCAP but you're gameplay was basically halted and any attempts to leave eradicated immediately.
Pull up to the wrong location with your CCAP that's now stationary for a little bit for charge up time and you'll find yourself under blockade. Good luck accomplishing anything but having wasted resources warping their. Yeah you have your CCAP but you're gameplay was basically halted and any attempts to leave eradicated immediately.
What "clear direction" do you want? Want PvP so badly, go out into PvP space with your TP on...go to the Moon Gate with your TP on. I was apart of PvP just the other day on the Moon Surface. Watch the SB Discord for folks literally advertising their locations because they want a bold soul to try them on. Radiation Scanners will make this even easier so their direction is fairly clear.
I know folks who readily run into PvP when they choose to...others obviously struggle finding it. This is about the same as those who easily find valuable/sizeable roids while others struggle and then think it's the game's fault. There's folks who know how to make tons of $$$ off the market and then there's normal folks who just get their basic profits. Folks who can make crazy ships and others stuck on basic ships. I dare say folks claiming they can't find PvP is not down to the game...it's the player.
Just 5 minutes ago one our faction members took out a crew on the moon. He didn't have to sit around for hours on end, he found it readily.
I know folks who readily run into PvP when they choose to...others obviously struggle finding it. This is about the same as those who easily find valuable/sizeable roids while others struggle and then think it's the game's fault. There's folks who know how to make tons of $$$ off the market and then there's normal folks who just get their basic profits. Folks who can make crazy ships and others stuck on basic ships. I dare say folks claiming they can't find PvP is not down to the game...it's the player.
Just 5 minutes ago one our faction members took out a crew on the moon. He didn't have to sit around for hours on end, he found it readily.
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There is right and wrong here. Yes I'd agree that shooting up an unarmed mining ship is pretty pointless but from comments all over that is what many seem to think the game is all about.. shooting stuff. And that is to be expected, the low cost of entry to the game also really does not help in the general population's motivation to play and too many see this game as shooter (just because.. there's guns). But that is a choice that was made and we can't change it.
But at the same time, if you venture outside the safezone in a mining ship, you should be aware of the risk, it's dead easy to not get seen/caught unless you get unlucky as the number of actual "pirates" is way less than some would love to make you believe.
The "PVP rush" towards the moon, once the new patch drops will, be big, but it will fall off just as quickly as the "pirates" get "bored" due to a "lack of content" again as they completely miss the scale of the moon and underestimate the effort they will need to put in to find people to kill and yeah, it's not about fights here either, just about killz. Fights are scary as they mean a risk of losing.
In general, I think most of the vocal PVP players/groups have a very short term focus and do not think beyond their immediate surroundings. It's the ones you do not see here, the groups you hear little about, that you should be on alert for.
The roadmap for 2021 has no PVP goals to speak of, I'd say that is a clear signal. I also think that it is too early to talk about actual PVP changes and balance as way to much will need to happen and be in place before that. Balancing PVP either way is complex and hard to get right. We are in early Alpha and more structure around PVP I would not expect until this time next year to be honest, maybe Q2 .. that would make sense to me but clearly I ain't FB so it's just my POV even when what they are doing so far aligns pretty nicely with it.
But at the same time, if you venture outside the safezone in a mining ship, you should be aware of the risk, it's dead easy to not get seen/caught unless you get unlucky as the number of actual "pirates" is way less than some would love to make you believe.
The "PVP rush" towards the moon, once the new patch drops will, be big, but it will fall off just as quickly as the "pirates" get "bored" due to a "lack of content" again as they completely miss the scale of the moon and underestimate the effort they will need to put in to find people to kill and yeah, it's not about fights here either, just about killz. Fights are scary as they mean a risk of losing.
In general, I think most of the vocal PVP players/groups have a very short term focus and do not think beyond their immediate surroundings. It's the ones you do not see here, the groups you hear little about, that you should be on alert for.
The roadmap for 2021 has no PVP goals to speak of, I'd say that is a clear signal. I also think that it is too early to talk about actual PVP changes and balance as way to much will need to happen and be in place before that. Balancing PVP either way is complex and hard to get right. We are in early Alpha and more structure around PVP I would not expect until this time next year to be honest, maybe Q2 .. that would make sense to me but clearly I ain't FB so it's just my POV even when what they are doing so far aligns pretty nicely with it.
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