This Game is Missing Something Crucial

[Venombrew]

SB has a treadmill from the beginning: designing, building and upgrading space ships and stations.

don't forget, for many of us is also be trying to keep what we have built, and i think that is a very desired factor in games today, specifically anything with a sandbox/survival base, despite its craft functions. people like to build and build even bigger, but a risk factor keeps them on their toes. and i agree with MrRoboto, SB is already on its treadmill from day 1. from yolo advancements and improvements will ultimately improve every other aspect of this game in tons of new ways, so thats a hill on its own to climb and probably will be the hardest. im a web designer/graphics artist, but i am not a coder and this shit to me is overwhelming. then we have the ship building progressions, build bigger, faster, stronger, better mechanics, better weapons. These are things combined with yolo will make a ceiling cap seem impossible, not saying its limitless but wow there is a lot to it. Station progression, if you ever been to moon city then you will see, thats almost like chunk of new york itself sitting there. This will be tons of work with many hands contributing. There will be players who only drive is to become tycoons, something that drives Eve to this day and many other games. And that itself is constantly turning hamster wheel.

i think one of starbase's biggest strength is that no player has to be on a defined path to find progression and enjoyment in it. and another thing that i think plays in starbase's favor is, to see this game at its fullest, you will have to accept the fact that it is going to take many players working together to create their own world around them to play in. and that will make people want to fight and play harder because they have so much more invested into that world that is around them. thats just my opinion.

 

[Walord]

some players just don't know what they are looking at

yes, like you and scrublord (refer to shulace's post)

the only problem i see not having a skill tree is that if a player is found cheating or overly toxic and gets banned . its only buying the game again and they are back in. not much is lost if you belong to an organization.

cant do much against those people, and if they were hacking they prolly dont need to progress in a skill tree, you'll have them in any games

 

[shado20]

"ship building and mining, that's it."
only in CA

 

[Lionard Freezer]

While i havent read most of the replies here i do have to say... WTF?
Why cant a sandbox mmorpg exist? Dont you see how popular mmos are? and sandboxes? the rpg element in this game is almost not there at all.
Dont we love Minecraft becourse we can basicly do anything we want? Dont we then go to the online community becourse at some point in time our own inspiration drops a bit. Dont we then still play the same game for 7 years?
The same goes for SB. While quite a bit has been given to the players, those are all just compoments. We still have to build Ships. We need to code them. We even need to make a god damn map since the devs dont give that to us as a convinent hud.
We can make turrets if we want. We then hate that idea since they are so god damn inacurate and slow to respond. We can create a satalite that sends rockets over multiple kilometers to our enemy once we know their coordinates (as long as we keep the missiles loaded and fueled).
There is so much to make, so much to destroy and so much to rebuild in this game.
Whole stations will be whiped off the ring, others will prosper and others will be in constant war for multiple months or even years.
There is no such thing as "The best weapon" or "The best armor".
Any new person that get ahold of your ship can wire your reactor to just shut down once it recives a certain signal. Then even the strongest ship can be oneshot. What rpg has such a feature? none, becourse that isnt what a rpg is about. there is no rpg where a lvl 1 could insta-kill a lvl 237.

 

[Hunter]

Why cant a sandbox mmorpg exist?

Ultima Online (the first and last true sandbox MMO) gave people way too much freedom, resulting in every dev since then reigning in player freedom in different ways that ultimately (no pun intended) result in the game dying from those development mistakes.

 

[Klaes]

What keeps EVE online alive?

 

[Walord]

What keeps EVE online alive?

most of the aspects of the game have a lot of deapth, or at least more than they appear to have at first glance, from pve to the economy and lets not forget the fighting and exploring (thats only the parts that i somewhat know and have experianced so there's a lot more like politics)
but with that said, it huge part oh why eve doesnt die is that there is a huge feeling of community, the good content of the game is created by interacting with other players and the map is small enough so that you'll always find someone near the hubs and trade routes but its large enough that you can find some time "alone" if you want to (you're never that far away from other people)
trust me, its not the new content, otherwise it wouldve died long ago but the game has been polished a lot

edit: also the risk reward balance is really good imo

 

[Klaes]

most of the aspects of the game have a lot of deapth, or at least more than they appear to have at first glance, from pve to the economy and lets not forget the fighting and exploring (thats only the parts that i somewhat know and have experianced so there's a lot more like politics)
but with that said, it huge part oh why eve doesnt die is that there is a huge feeling of community, the good content of the game is created by interacting with other players and the map is small enough so that you'll always find someone near the hubs and trade routes but its large enough that you can find some time "alone" if you want to (you're never that far away from other people)
trust me, its not the new content, otherwise it wouldve died long ago but the game has been polished a lot

edit: also the risk reward balance is really good imo

Then this need for an artificial "treadmill" like gatekeeping mechanics (levels), doesn't hold and I agree with the devs' direction. And as you said, it is the organic play-to-player interaction that makes a community like EVE last and that seems to be exactly what kind of "organic content" the devs are going for here. The "treadmill" is precisely why I stopped playing MMOs and the seeming lack of it in this game is why I suddenly got interested in Starbase.

After experiencing being one of the "top players" in some regional servers (I'm from Asia), I'm done with grinding for EXP points each time the level cap is increased with an update. Though I expect mining to be grindy but I think will be necessary. But I do like the idea of the possibility of not needing to mine and instead being a pirate or just a scavenger. At least I don't have to be forced to kill the same type of monsters or repeat the same raid over and over again at the end game.

 

[Venombrew]

Though I expect mining to be grindy but I think will be necessary. But I do like the idea of the possibility of not needing to mine and instead being a pirate or just a scavenger. At least I don't have to be forced to kill the same type of monsters or repeat the same raid over and over again at the end game.

oh there is a lot of ways, you can hire yourself out as a professional soldier, spy, smuggler, etc. i know a lot of people are wanting to build there own mercenary teams, which i think is pretty cool. join one of these large companies like redwood industries and work in the R&D and pull down credits. Hell if your good at yolo and thinking out of the box, i pay you big credits for kickass pirate and thieves tools that you can come up with in game.

 

[Anomaly]

The treadmill in a game like Starbase is the acquisition of power and prestige. Both of which have meaning in a single shard game in which items are permanently destroyed.

Way back, I acquired more skill points in Eve than I had the patience and time to use. I had my rare (at the time) capital ship and no desire to grind toward a titan. Toward the end, it was the fun of team play and territory warfare that kept me in the game.

Skill trees do a little to curb RMT and P2W but there may be other ways to stop that.

 

[Asirmoth]

For me, I see Starbase (raw gameplay wise) as less like an RPG and more like a factory game (despite our current lack of factories). I think it shouldn't be compared so much to RPGs and rather games like Factorio, Minecraft Technic/Buildcraft etc., Satisfactory. These are games about working to try and design pipelines, processes, and tactics to make the most of limited resources.

In Starbase's case, the limited resources are not limited to natural ones, there are also player counts to handle. Additionally, other players pose both a hazard and a benefit as you can trade and fight with them.

In any case, the factory games don't rely on much but the player's desire to build better and better systems. As long as those players stick around, they can provide the factions with ways of fighting and giving new ranks/roles to their players (the treadmill), but the base doesn't need a treadmill of its own.

I treat Starbase like a more complicated Planetside 2 in space with ship building.

 

[Mutleyx]

It's interesting to see different players describing what Starbase is, or what it should be. The truth is we don't really know what it will be yet. Even the devs don't know this. They have a vision, one that in Lauri's own words is impossible, and accepting that is a requirement for working on the team. Given that, what will eventually be released will be something else... Perhaps with more influences from games like Dyson Sphere and Factorio, but perhaps with more from Eve, Minecraft, Valheim, Ark, or Dual Universe or all of those and others in some beautifully chaotic mixture. It is quite possible it might attract a variety of players; the builders, explorerer and the pvpers.

As for the treadmill, I get what you are saying, it's the drive for MMOs, but another drive in sandbox games is to create. Places to explore will be created by players building things. All we need is the tools to do that, and they are coming(*). The closest game I have played to Starbase's current direction is probably Starmade, and in that it was fun to just fly around that universe visiting all the fallen empires of previous players. I'm looking forward to being able to do the same in Starbase.

(*) soon

 

[Venombrew]

The closest game I have played to Starbase's current direction is probably Starmade, and in that it was fun to just fly around that universe visiting all the fallen empires of previous players. I'm looking forward to being able to do the same in Starbase.

the does sound like a lot of fun, some time next year the devs have talked of planetary systems. be pretty cool to explore some far out moons and planets no one been to yet.

 

[Bob Dole]

What keeps EVE online alive?

Funny you mention Eve, out of all mmo's, eve is one of the defacto time sink games. Want to fly a ship 25% better? wait 200 days for the researches to complete. The game is one big time-gated experience, and that is a major part of why they retain players.

I'm glad starbase added time sinks in the form of researches, but I fear it isn't quite enough yet. It's still very easy to unlock all the researches in about a week.

 

[Afxtron]

also, some kind of events, or weekly rotation, there could multiple way to do that, some localized events every week could count as points of interest, but it could also so be like the hunger game arena in the 2n movie (i think its that one but i really dont know), so like events that rotate around the belt or pop out in their own quadrant every few weeks or days depending

Yeah I think this could be the best thing to stop the game being stale for some players, and helps people who need daily or weekly content.

Like in Scum they have those airdrops or whatever that turn up in a particular area of the map, which forces people to go and bump heads.

This game area being so large there's a good chance without multiple daily and weekly events/locations to visit with good loot everyone's just gonna mine and build with the pvp guilds spending a long time trying to find people to hunt, maybe.

But yeah with those daily and weekly event locations it draws in the manufactors who will have hired the mercenaries, which draws in the pirates and then on the edges the scavengers.
Forcing people to interact daily and possibly a big weekly challenge will stimulate the economy and player interaction and keep the playerbase healthy.

Cos after a few days playing now, and I know it's in early access I feel like this game has this amazing potential, but could also just be dull if people are not making an effort to wage war and interact.

So yeah you don't need the treadmill or RPG element the sandbox thing is great, but people definitely need a nudge to interact sometimes and so daily and weekly loot or prestige would be a good thing.

Cos iirc the main two factions have a prestige thing so there's the prestige grind there for some people.

 

[STEALTH]

To each their own but I wouldn't but the traditional MMORPG stuff for this Sandbox MMO as "crucial"

 

[Lionard Freezer]

I also think the shipbuilding is quite the time treadmill.
Pretty sure you could sink a few weeks in there and still come out with an incomplete ship.

 

[LauriFB]

We have a few main plans for events:

1. Organic in form of sieges. Certain size sieges will be listed publicly to everyone, and in addition to that either party of a siege can publicly announce the upcoming siege. Especially larger sieges most likely will draw a lot of onlookers/pirates/live salvagers/thrill seekers.
2. New location grand opening. For example a new gas cloud or moon most likely first has only one route to it, making it dangerous for first people to arrive. Gas clouds can also start smaller and grow in sizes, so the first discovery would involve a lot of pvp but it would eventually smooth out.
3. Dev-organized convoys and station building operations. For example building a new fast travel gate to a new moon for everyone. These activities would have a known flight route and schedule, and sometimes bigger escort ships running transponders on to keep everyone in the fleet. I'd imagine this would stir up some organic action as well.

 

[shinobisama]

I am willing to bet that more "niche" games have died than made it. I am 100% sure I know nothing about what makes or breaks a game design nor do I care to.
This game will reward you for ingenuity, gathering, and networking, can't these tread milly functions fill that void? Just because you don't get a badge for doing them, they held the carrot in front of us to make the wheel go round and round.

City of Heroes
Release date: April 28, 2004
Died: November 2012

Minions of Mirth
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Died: September 2017

Club Penguin
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Died: March 2017

The Matrix Online
Release date: 2005
Died: August 2009

Dark and Light
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Died: 2008

Phantasy Star Universe
Released: August 2006
Died: September 2012 (Japan)

Dynasty Warriors Online
Release date: 2006 in Japan, 2010 in NA
Died: January 2014 (English servers only)

Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine
Release date: April 2007 in Japan, December 2008 in NA, January 2009 in EU
Died: 2014 in NA, 2016 in Japan

Starquest Online
Release date: 2007
Died: 2014

Tabula Rasa
Release date: November 2007
Died: February 2009

Fantasy Earth Zero
Release date: 2006 in Japan, 2010 in NA
Died: 2011 in NA

Myst Online
Release date: February 2007
Died: 2008

Pirates of the Caribbean Online
Release date: October 2007
Died: 2013

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Release date: January 2007
Died: July 2014

Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning
Release date: September 2008
Died: 2013

Free Realms
Release date: April 2009
Died: March 2014

Battlestar Galactica Online
Release date: February 2009
Died: February 2019

Hello Kitty Online
Release date: 2010
Died: August 2017

Mythos
Release date: February 2012
Died: January 2014

Darkfall Unholy Wars
Release date: November 2012
Died: May 2016

Marvel Heroes
Release date: June 2013
Died: November 2017

Firefall
Release date: July 2014
Died: July 2017

Wildstar
Release date: June 2014
Died: November 2018

EverQuest Next
Release date: N/A
Died: March 2016

Landmark
Release date: June 2016
Died: February 2017

And before the days of Crowd Funding/Sourcing you may've been onto something. Now being paid to never finish a game is the new standard.

 

[MCwrath]

And before the days of Crowd Funding/Sourcing you may've been onto something. Now being paid to never finish a game is the new standard.

The only reason that this is the new standard, is because people keep buying into them.

Don't get me wrong, I for one think its a good thing, to give room for the smaller development studios with smaller budgets to produce interesting and niche games (like Starbase for example). But it does create room for a LOT of shitty ones that are terribly organized.