Time To Kill - My Biggest Starbase Concern

[Atreties]

ArtturiFB06/18/2019

I believe the weapon damage was tuned up in the trailer to showcase the destruction. Not sure where the balance will eventually land, but I expect if you construct that stuff from a material designed to act as armor it's going to take a bit longer to get through using handheld weapons,

That is a dev from the discord

Thanks, i appreciate finding that.

With that said:

• "I believe" is not confirmation.
• "A bit longer" is not the magnitude of change that would alleviate my concern.
• "Using handheld weapons" only addresses the boarding side of the equation, not mounted ship weapons tearing thru ship armor like wet paper.
  
  

 

[Recatek]

The devs have said multiple times that damage is ramped up in the videos to showcase destruction. I'm sure once testing begins they will take feedback like this into consideration as they tune and balance the game. That's a large part of what testing is for.

 

[Atreties]

There is no automated Ai drones in game. (working Ai will not be a thing as far as i know).

You either misunderstand how YOLOL works, or majorly underestimate the ingenuity of coders.

 

[Bloodlance]

Thanks, i appreciate finding that.

With that said:

• "I believe" is not confirmation.
• "A bit longer" is not the magnitude of change that would alleviate my concern.
• "Using handheld weapons" only addresses the boarding side of the equation, not mounted ship weapons tearing thru ship armor like wet paper.

Seems to me that you have not studied the released videos through ?

There is plenty of info around and the unofficial FAQ, just read it thru and you know about different armor types and how they work. One type of armor will not work in PvP you need layered armor with different kinds or combined alloy armor.

 

[Bloodlance]

You either misunderstand how YOLOL works, or majorly underestimate the ingenuity of coders.

i know how it works and ive already tested a 0.2 delay code for the purpose of implementing it into Starbase, and yes i still say it. you wont have drones in this game with the modules and yolol working as it works now.

correction, you can have random flying drones that shoot around everything that moves (inaccurately) and any player with half the brain will demolish defences like that.

 

[Atreties]

Seems to me that you have not studied the released videos through ?

There is plenty of info around and the unofficial FAQ, just read it thru and you know about different armor types and how they work. One type of armor will not work in PvP you need layered armor with different kinds or combined alloy armor.

Watched every video they have available, including the unlisted playlist.
Also, read the long google doc FAQ in its entirety.

I'm aware of how different materials will provide better protection against different damage types. My concern is not in that balance, which seems good. My concern is on the total level of all durability across the whole game.

 

[Bloodydavyflint]

Oh how I have missed a nice relaxing atreties forum post. Been too long!! Better buckle up nerds cause this guy is like top 3 in words per post!

-Skylord

 

[Bloodlance]

Watched every video they have available, including the unlisted playlist.
Also, read the long google doc FAQ in its entirety.

I'm aware of how different materials will provide better protection against different damage types. My concern is not in that balance, which seems good. My concern is on the total level of all durability across the whole game.

normal part vs cannon fire = no durability as the damage is too great for basic parts.

if you want to have protection vs damage, you build protection around the important parts of your ships in multiple layers (as in WW2 ships had).

 

[Morrgard]

Watched every video they have available, including the unlisted playlist.
Also, read the long google doc FAQ in its entirety.

I'm aware of how different materials will provide better protection against different damage types. My concern is not in that balance, which seems good. My concern is on the total level of all durability across the whole game.

I believe what they were trying to say as well as the developer's points from before are.

Not all weapon will be good against all armor types, thus the adaptation of said armor is important. and then there comes the layering, and since there are weapons that are effective against this and that it's up to you (the builder) to create what seems situationally correct

 

[Bloodlance]

like i already know every type of material i use in my PvP ship and how i will protect every part in it. win win for me.

 

[Atreties]

normal part vs cannon fire = no durability as the damage is too great for basic parts.

if you want to have protection vs damage, you build protection around the important parts of your ships in multiple layers (as in WW2 ships had).

See my Original Post -

Yes, players will be able to manually craft and manually place multiple layers of different types of armor plating to bolt to the hull, or surrounding every single critical component that's protect-able, but the devs have stated that doing so will heavily show a ship down, likely making them a very easy to hit target, and thus heavily negating any benefit.

Yes, multi-layering is an obvious step. That isn't going to be the default play experience, the standard way people will interact with the game. Having TTK be extremely short (a single shot) against noobs and very long/tanky against veterans is it's own balance concern.

AND EVEN THEN, the protection I've seen with stuff that's strong relative to the damage type seems fairly weak overall.

 

[Bloodlance]

AND EVEN THEN, the protection I've seen with stuff that's strong relative to the damage type seems fairly weak overall.

See my Original Post -

 

[Atreties]

Oh how I have missed a nice relaxing atreties forum post. Been too long!! Better buckle up nerds cause this guy is like top 3 in words per post!

-Skylord

<3 u bloody

You know this forum has signatures, right? You don't need to do the tag thing to every post like Meister Keen

 

[YakkoForever]

VilleFB Today at 1:21 PM

Currently autocannon and laser have enough energy to penetrate one or two plates of proper plating. Civilian ships are more unfortunate and AC and laser projectiles will penetrate even deeper, depending how much voxel mass they have to punch through. This is current state of weapons vs. armor, and might be subject to change. Oninum being expection and it can take several hits from autocannons and lasers, but it is much heavier than standard plating, around 25% weigh difference between military alloys and Oninum weight.

VilleFB Today at 1:55 PM

I'm pretty sure all combat statistics will still see a lot of small and even larger balance adjustments. I'm quite happy how armor is right now, but I can't say for future nor I'm no way only one who looks into that stuff in design wise.


dev quotes from discord.

 

[Atreties]

VilleFB Today at 1:21 PM

Currently autocannon and laser have enough energy to penetrate one or two plates of proper plating. Civilian ships are more unfortunate and AC and laser projectiles will penetrate even deeper, depending how much voxel mass they have to punch through. This is current state of weapons vs. armor, and might be subject to change. Oninum being expection and it can take several hits from autocannons and lasers, but it is much heavier than standard plating, around 25% weigh difference between military alloys and Oninum weight.

VilleFB Today at 1:55 PM

I'm pretty sure all combat statistics will still see a lot of small and even larger balance adjustments. I'm quite happy how armor is right now, but I can't say for future nor I'm no way only one who looks into that stuff in design wise.


dev quotes from discord.

Yakko with the research! Thanks man, you've now contributed more to this discussion than anyone, including myself.

These quotes make me even more concerned on this topic than I already was.

Civilian ships are more unfortunate and AC and laser projectiles will penetrate even deeper, depending how much voxel mass they have to punch through.

Oninum... can take several hits from autocannons and lasers... around 25% weigh difference between military alloys and Oninum weight.

This is a very big red flag to me. The difference between the basic plating and the best/rare plating should not be enormous like this. For one, it makes the new player experience very negative, as they feel completely outclassed and unable to overcome the difference in gear. It also makes exploiting extra resources (a huge issue in games like this) way more impactful/harmful.

Currently autocannon and laser have enough energy to penetrate one or two plates of proper plating.

Note this line, guys. PROPER plating will still get instantly shredded (and things behind it damaged or disabled). This is what I'm talking about. Aiming for unarmored or weak points, or areas where you've already punched a gap in their armor should be how you win fights, not just instantly blasting thru multiple layers of armor.

 

[Kimsemus]

The way that internal mechanics work in Starbase, they need to have a hull polarization/shield/scaling HP system depending on size, and a "repair to blueprint function" at stations or something, otherwise repairing ships after even minor skirmishes is going to be a tedious nightmare.

 

[Vexus]

I think the time to kill is very nice from what I've seen so far. Points about time to kill:

• Starter solo fighter ships are basically cheap throwaways and should go down with a couple good shots (videos show them tanking some damage though)
• A high quality meta is one where you don't get too many mistakes before losing - the side which makes fewer mistakes should win decisively
• People can repair mid-battle, prolonging the fight, where unless you get a lucky shot, 5 crew repairing could prolong the fight a very long time
• In the case of a 5 man repair crew, a lucky shot that disables something critical or explodes a weak point seems like good balance
• When facing a larger crew, maybe it's time to board and even the odds a bit
• Even after your ship is disabled and sitting in ruins, your player robot is still alive. You're not yet 'killed' even if your ship is. Do you defend your wreck? Do you respawn in station and just call it a loss? Do you attempt to snipe the enemy pilot with your sniper rifle as he comes in to 'finish you'? Do you float over to another damaged ship and grab parts or materials to bring your own ship back online? Do you mine a nearby asteroid for the repair materials? Do you head to the enemy station and begin a ground assault? Do you position yourself to get onto a larger enemy ship and board it? There's unlimited amounts of what to do after the ship is disabled where unlike other games which relied on the ship for gameplay, the ships in Starbase are tools to accomplish goals you can do many different ways without them.

On top of any of that, player made systems will be far more resilient and complex than what the devs have time to make. Since we can disassemble every ship into its smallest component and rebuild the frame and plating however we want in game, it might take time but players will devise the best ships for their own purposes. No two best ships will look the same and everyone will have the ship they know is the best ship for their playstyle after time. Time to kill will be a dynamic floating point pushed by the ingenuity of players, so it will be as long or as short as everyone wants it to be. From what I can see so far, the time to kill is spot on.

 

[Vloshko]

otherwise repairing ships after even minor skirmishes is going to be a tedious nightmare.

This is part of my primary concern at the moment. I'm less concerned about repairing after fights; during fights however, from what we have seen is required in the videos seems like more of a nightmare. Which ties into TTK. Especially external wiring, though I haven't seen what it looks like when trying to repair while moving, with performance of other ships in the area, on a live server (not dev build).

 

[Bloodydavyflint]

Yes

<3 u bloody

You know this forum has signatures, right? You don't need to do the tag thing to every post like Meister Keen

Yes I DO

- Skylord

 

[The_Gipsy_Danger]

Lots of good information on the wiki already but until we can really go through the whole process of collecting, designing, building and fighting it'll be hard to know what is good TTK since all of these factors impact the perception of loss vs gain in combat which will determine whether some people have fun engaging in combat. and that's what its all about right? it is a game after all.