Griefing and social engineering policies

[le_souriceau]

... we have good plans on how to protect pve players with ingame features: capital ships and how much they offer both absolute and relative safety even when exploring all around the universe.

I think there is bit of problem with terminology.

Who are these "PvE" players in SB? Compared to classic MMOs there is no story, no quests, not mobs to kill in SB. Granted, we have creative layer with its adepts, some people roleplay, microscopic minority may be actual "explorers", enjoying just flying around without economic motives. But all this has nothing or little to do with SZ mechanics or strict playstyles differences (PvP players doing all same things).

Realisticly , in context, "PvE player" is euphemism for "miners who not like PvP" -- they are ones most interested in SZs , both static and "portable", desiring less riks, but more rewards. And they, btw, gladly participate in economy in competitive way, actualy playing against other players -- not some "enviroment".

For absolute majority Its all about most profitable mining routine, not "peaceful romantic sighseeing".

So 1 million question: what will actual risky gameplay grant over their safe grind? Are "PvE" guys will be blocked from high-tier economical content/resources by not participating in PvP?

 

[blazemonger]

I think there is bit of problem with terminology.
Who are these "PvE" players in SB?

This.. very much.. I think terminology and non-native English is something causing misinterpretation and/or an easy way into spinning what is said to suit one's specific narrative.

I also agree that the term "PVE player" is not fitting in the context of SB, there is no PVE in the traditional sense for a sandbox MMO, much like is the case in Dual Universe. Mining and crafting/building are not PVE activities, they are resource gathering and .. building. PVE would be the equivalent of combat or exploration sites in EVE.. Basically, dungeons and/or mini-games/puzzles.

The problem I have with what @LauriFB said "we have good plans on how to protect pve players with in game features: capital ships ..."

Capitals as a generic way of safeguarding non-combatant players is not something I think is a good idea nor will it work. Odd as it may sound, I do agree with what some PVP players are arguing here but form a different perspective.in essence though I would agree that if the above is what FB intent and it's all they will bring in these capitals will become moving fortresses, invulnerable and unstoppable.

Just like many PVP players feel all they have is attacking miners at the moment, so will non-combatant players feel all they have is capitals to reduce the risk of PVP. IMO, the ECM options I have mentioned a few times before would be much more of an effective mechanic to reduce risk (while not eliminating it) to the point where it becomes acceptable to take risk without having to "bring guns".

ECM would need to be a thing and CCaps would need to be able to carry ships which have armament fitted to allow for player groups using them to venture out and exposing themselves to risks. If that does not happen the chances are CCaps will mostly be used to launch cheap, short range and fast throw away ships, which can be left behind if needed, if there is no option of defence, the very scenarios some have painted may well come true.

 

[Vorg]

PVE is Player Vs Environment. Not Player Vs NPC's or monsters, etc.. PV doesn't have to always mean destroy. Mining, building, etc., very much is player vs environment. The environment is the game world and it's resources. Technically, even checkers is PVP. No one dies, nothing is distroyed. But now adays, people seem to think that is all the "V" in PVP or PVE means. And that is the problem.

 

[J.D.]

I think there is bit of problem with terminology.

Who are these "PvE" players in SB? Compared to classic MMOs there is no story, no quests, not mobs to kill in SB. Granted, we have creative layer with its adepts, some people roleplay, microscopic minority may be actual "explorers", enjoying just flying around without economic motives. But all this has nothing or little to do with SZ mechanics or strict playstyles differences (PvP players doing all same things).

Realisticly , in context, "PvE player" is euphemism for "miners who not like PvP" -- they are ones most interested in SZs , both static and "portable", desiring less riks, but more rewards. And they, btw, gladly participate in economy in competitive way, actualy playing against other players -- not some "enviroment".

For absolute majority Its all about most profitable mining routine, not "peaceful romantic sighseeing".

So 1 million question: what will actual risky gameplay grant over their safe grind? Are "PvE" guys will be blocked from high-tier economical content/resources by not participating in PvP?

No, not at all. You will see all these materials hit market at some point. Lauri has described this route that you are wanting to take as a slower one, because you dont take the risk, but yes, you can still get there by staying in the safe zone. But, having your hands on the raw, untouched material, means you have to get there yourself in non safe space. So, you are at the mercy of markup prices for whom ever retrieves these ores. The ones taking the risks, and succeeding are really making the money.. as they should because they earned it... Idk, i kinda felt like you might have taken offense to this term. I like pvp. Im aware that pve people like building, and economy, and all that stuff, and that pve means alot of things. I think alot of us know that. Pve is just a fast way of encompassing all that into one word to make sentences shorter, in my opinion. Doesnt make your play style lack viability though. To be honest? i think having npcs would be amazing. Though, that might take a toll on the game from a development stand point. especially if they really put a lot of detail into it. But, its a nice thought... But, no. i refer to you guys as pve. But, i also acknowledge that means different things. Remember the same when you refer to pvp people before you generalize. oh, by the way, @le_souriceau explorers can make alot of money by placing coordinates on yolol chips for capital ships to warp to. This was mentioned by the devs in the past. Sounds very lucrative. Cap ships cant warp to unknown locations. So, im sure pvp guys will pay alot of money for these things.. Or civilian cap ship groups looking for a quick way to a favorable spot.. be it, safe areas away from everything, ore hotspots, coords to do a raid against a group, etc. But, there is risk involved, ofc being outside the sz.

 

[le_souriceau]

By "blocked" (probably not best term) I mean it must be not just some ore mining areas, but, much more importantly, exclusive PvP-zone infrastructure to be contolled to reap benefits long-term. Best factories (top 1/4 of production list, per example), best station amenities, "showing off" stuff need to be only in PvP zone and siegable. So people can chill in safety if they want so, but in clearly weaker position it in terms of wealth/content, missing something.

This may sound harsh, but this how this competitive games actualy work on motivation layer.

I find all this "coordinates hunt" narrative bit overrated, because its all done on cheap (fast and disposable) ship (by anyone, not some special "explorer"), with only risk is time wasted on trip.

Again, I not like separation (even if I myself aways tempted to use it to be on same page in discussion). All activity lists people try to give these "PvE" players to prove their existance is 100% done by "PvP" players as well, if not more or better even in some cases.

So in SB its just players. Only difference is that some not want to experience possible stress of loss in combat with other players. SImple as that.

 

[J.D.]

By "blocked" (probably not best term) I mean it must be not just some ore mining areas, but, much more importantly, exclusive PvP-zone infrastructure to be contolled to reap benefits long-term. Best factories (top 1/4 of production list, per example), best station amenities, "showing off" stuff need to be only in PvP zone and siegable. So people can chill in safety if they want so, but in clearly weaker position it in terms of wealth/content, missing something.

This may sound harsh, but this how this competitive games actualy work on motivation layer.

I find all this "coordinates hunt" narrative bit overrated, because its all done on cheap (fast and disposable) ship (by anyone, not some special "explorer"), with only risk is time wasted on trip.

Again, I not like separation (even if I myself aways tempted to use it to be on same page in discussion). All activity lists people try to give these "PvE" players to prove their existance is 100% done by "PvP" players as well, if not more or better even in some cases.

So in SB its just players. Only difference is that some not want to experience possible stress of loss in combat with other players. SImple as that.

I’m not quite sure I understood most of your message. I’m not sure why though, except for the last 2 paragraphs… yet again, you can achieve anything you want to, just like the pvp players. You can build your base in the safe zone as well. So, build some insanely huge building and out work into it that takes years to complete. You’ll never be raided. Ever…. So, with the safe mechanics, I am so confused why the non combatant community has so much discontent. Also, I think I interpreted you saying that pvp groups are the ones giving you guys options to make your existences known. That’s not true. The we are just repeating dev quotes mostly as the foundation. At least, I am. I don’t talk about game mechanics much at all unless I heard it from a dev… but let me ask you to better understand. What would YOU like to see to be able to make you content playing the game. If you had it completely your way, what would this game be like? Just curious.

 

[Cavilier210]

Time "wasted" on the trip can be significant.

 

[Harbingerman]

Too much to read ... why not classify the PvP zones related to the Asteroid zones? I wouldnt know how but I am sure it could be done.

I hear moon mining will bring about the last rare ores ... for a PvP solo player this will probly be inacessible; I dont see a problem with allying to get resources without having to join a faction just to get resources; not everyone on here can be that spleeny ... develop some RP for the endgame resources.

Can a player be self sufficient? It looks like that s a yes now that I have gotten almost 200 hours in finally and figured things out.

Heres the problem ... who needs credits. Once new players have figured out the game they will probly never see Origin again ... then their grind begins.

Griefing the first safe zone is lame for PvPers ... player made warp zones that only players in their group can enter did I read that somewhere?

I can rant so I will stop.