Griefing and social engineering policies

TheMarksman

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
156
#21
Camping on the safezone border is probably going to be allowed. Space is big, we don't think it'll be 2000 players waiting for innocent prey at the borders... If it becomes a problem (for newbies or otherwise), we can have some technical measures to prevent this. We will define these cases further at a later date.
We've done the math before and in theory, it would require some two thousand players to render the entire border. But in practice, it's likely to miss a ship anywhere within your 5km render radius.
Not to mention that it's unlikely for one to organise that many people and more just to "blockade" the safe zone.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
7
#22
We've done the math before and in theory, it would require some two thousand players to render the entire border. But in practice, it's likely to miss a ship anywhere within your 5km render radius.
Not to mention that it's unlikely for one to organise that many people and more just to "blockade" the safe zone.
I seriously think people are going about the whole "blockade the safezone" thing the wrong way. There are most definitely more efficient ways of doing it than just surrounding the safezone itself. Of course safezone camping is a form of "griefing" so I guess those players will get punished...
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
5
#23
@JoelFB I think it can be improved: for objects in safe zones, you can consider a similar of "anchor", i.e. if the player enable the "anchor" on himself or the object, it could not be pushed out of the safe zone (pushing back at a certain distance from the border). Before switching on, check whether the entire object is in the safe area.

For the first time, it’s not so badly.
 
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Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
45
#24
To be honest, I'm not a fan of these features.

For one, you are in no way going to be able to manage the overflow of reports and stuff coming in. Best you can do is try to prevent cheating, and I sometimes have doubts about that. You mention having ingame moderators? I will assume these come from the playerbase like the discord mods. Bringing in the community as mods is not a good decision, and is ripe for abuse. Especially considering these mods already have their own biases and will undoubtedly use their powers unfairly. I will not say names, but we have direct quotes from SB moderators saying they will make sure specific players get banned from the game. Also what powers do these mods have? Kicking from the game? Chat muting? Temp banning? I've been dealing with bad moderation for years. Once a rumor starts spreading by one of your enemies that you hack or cheat it's always guilty until proven innocent. Even considering there is zero evidence of something like that.

Second, this game is advertised as player driven. What is being shown is not player driven. It's just limiting how the game can be played.

The rules also make no sense. It all works around keeping new players safe. Which tbh is a flawed method of doing things. Like it implies that killing noobs even outside the safezone is a bad thing. Just in general it's not a bad thing. Even the idea of luring players out of the safezone is not a bad thing. It's all in the concept of risk vs reward. They risk trusting you and they may or may not get a reward. Tons and tons of successful games work with this method. In most cases, it doesn't scare off any players. All it does is teach them to be better at the game. If the risk is to great for the rewards as a new player, as developers you should increase the reward to make it easier to get new players out there flying again. Do that instead of creating hard to enforce rules that are over complicated.

Also, how do you define new player, and how is the regular player supposed to be able to tell who is new or not.

All you have to do is make sure it's obvious you have a greater chance of being killed outside the safezone. And people should automatically know this include things such as scamming. The playerbase isn't 9 years old. The majority are all over the age of 16, and they can read, think, and weigh risk vs reward on their own. You do not need to coddle them. They are not children. If they don't want to die, then don't leave the safezone.
I cant agree more. Especially about the ban of any valuable social engineering and espionage. Im an EVE player, and I cant imagine the situation, where CCP Games would ban a player just because he lured someone from hisec to lowsec and killed him there. Also I dont understand how a 'player driven sandbox game' can be without social engineering, that is utilized by pirates and other evil players who like to play on the 'dark side'. Lets put it simple: conventional pvp and conventional war is BORING AF! Thats why we run from it to sandbox games, where there are no social limits. EVE Online is a good example of it. Nobody can cal it toxic. It is cold and harsh, yes. But not toxic. And all the social engineering that you can imagine is right there, allowed and legitimate. The Rookie Griefing is a big no-no, but noone is really touching the newborns, unless they go to lowsec any other dangerous parts of space.

Also why cant I just rob someone outside the safezone, pretending that I am their 'friend'? WTF!!?!?! Guys, cmon. Do I need to announce a full-scale warfare every time I want to steal, lets say, a new and 'top secret' Collective's PvP ship from their station? Of course no. I will just plant a spy into their ranks, and then use him as an infiltrator of an 'unknown faction', who will steal the ship then either disappear or make it back like nothing happened.

I can understand all these rules during CA, but most of these restrictions must be lifted when the game goes to EA. Because all of this rules above - is clearly NOT a sandbox. And not a player-driven by any means. I hope you will understand what I mean as soon as the game starts. Or earlier.

The best way - is to make the Origin safe zone safe, and the rest of the space must have no limits at all in all scenarios. Especially in social engineering. Ban cheaters/hackers and those who repeatedly abuse confirmed exploits. Leave the rest of the game to players, leave the sand where it belong.

We, endokids, know what to do with the sand. We dont need your 'no-no' nere and 'no-no' there. Sand is sand, and we want to play with it the way we want.
 
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Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
5
#25
Instead of bans, consider insurance options like Eve or Star Citizen.
At the beginning restriction seem like a simple solution, but its can also lead to negative attitude.

It is worth delimiting situations when the player allows, and when he is extremely unwilling.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
5
#26
For example, attempts to steal control of a ship in a safe port can be a full-fledged part of the gameplay, the "victim" captain could prepare a trap in advance and have fun with it.

This provides a lot of gameplay ideas.
 
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