Manual Beam Welding - Requesting feedback on a design suggestion for replacing attachment plates

dustyFB

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Frozenbyte
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#81
Just want to chime in and say that the freeform welds are still planned, but we do have quite a lot to work on before we'll be able to get to them; they're not an abandoned feature, but at this point in time we just don't have anything new to say about them. Obviously it would have been preferable to have the welds fully implemented before removing the attachment plates, but we also didn't want to have to deal with the fallout that would have occurred had we left the attachment plates in-game for early access only to later need to remove them :')
 

Kodey

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#82
Just want to chime in and say that the freeform welds are still planned, but we do have quite a lot to work on before we'll be able to get to them; they're not an abandoned feature, but at this point in time we just don't have anything new to say about them. Obviously it would have been preferable to have the welds fully implemented before removing the attachment plates, but we also didn't want to have to deal with the fallout that would have occurred had we left the attachment plates in-game for early access only to later need to remove them :')
Well seeing as you’re here then, I may as well ask a few questions, seeing as my other avenues have been limited.

Are the manual weld blocks still coming q1-2 this year? I vaguely remember seeing Lauri (or someone else) say that they were coming sometime soon this year. Also, what kind of work has been done on them (since they were announced)? I don’t think I’ve seen anything on them in the progress notes
 

dustyFB

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Frozenbyte
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#84
Are the manual weld blocks still coming q1-2 this year? I vaguely remember seeing Lauri (or someone else) say that they were coming sometime soon this year. Also, what kind of work has been done on them (since they were announced)? I don’t think I’ve seen anything on them in the progress notes
The progress notes contain all the updates for the (announced) features that we're working on, so unfortunately if there hasn't been anything about them in those then it's likely that they haven't hit any 'milestone' progress indicators. We've been a bit optimistic with expected timelines before so I'm hesitant to say anything more definitive :')
 
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#85
I think that any decisions in the game that you make to increase the number of development tools and consumables are for the best, but there are two rules
1. decisions must be justified by the physics of the created world and explained in the wiki to the players.
2. solutions should support the hardcore of the game, i.e. not simplify it to please the weak-minded.
 

Eviltek2099

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#86
The progress notes contain all the updates for the (announced) features that we're working on, so unfortunately if there hasn't been anything about them in those then it's likely that they haven't hit any 'milestone' progress indicators. We've been a bit optimistic with expected timelines before so I'm hesitant to say anything more definitive :')
Well that's something I guess. Still I feel that this should have been prioritized or at least completed before the removal of attachment plates! I won't come back to this game until we have a suitable replacement for attachment plates. End of line!
 

Kodey

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#87
Just want to chime in and say that the freeform welds are still planned, but we do have quite a lot to work on before we'll be able to get to them
So I should've asked this before, but seeing as there hasn't been any progress on these, what would you (or other devs) have to say needs to get done before Weld Blocks? Maybe some kind of insight on what kind of tech would be needed for weld blocks (if any at all)?
 

kiiyo

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#88
Additionally, could we get any kind of a word on why Attachment Plates were removed before the implementation of Weld Blocks? Much like the rest in this thread I have not seen much if any mention of them in the progress notes, which is completely understandable if they require not yet developed tech; However, it does raise the question of whether the removal of APs was necessary at the exact time it was done, and not closer to the release of WBs.
 

Kenetor

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#90
Additionally, could we get any kind of a word on why Attachment Plates were removed before the implementation of Weld Blocks? Much like the rest in this thread I have not seen much if any mention of them in the progress notes, which is completely understandable if they require not yet developed tech; However, it does raise the question of whether the removal of APs was necessary at the exact time it was done, and not closer to the release of WBs.
I know its a late answer but no one had given you an answer yet.
while no one can answer the timing of such a move, they were removed because of 2 main reasons, object spam and the fact they were broken, and had to be to do the job they needed: pass stress through beams.
Suddenly the community abused the hell out of them to connect anything and everything outside of the scope they should have been used for
 

Kodey

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#91
Suddenly the community abused the hell out of them to connect anything and everything outside of the scope they should have been used for
Being a person who actively used attachment plates, I don't consider using APs to get custom angles abuse. I don't think something like this would be hurting anyone (other than myself) if I used it. I obviously don't speak for Frozenbyte, but I think they agree that it wasn't really abuse, judging by their use of my planes/submarines in promotional material, including the EA trailer. Again, this is only my speculations, and I think my not being on the official discord only cements that.

That's not to say that people did abuse them, I remember people have made "springs" to absorb collision damage with attachment plates. If I'm correct, you can still achieve that same result with beam welding, though it wouldn't be nearly as compact as with attachment plates. This raises the question, why not just fix the stress system, instead of deleting a feature outright? I don't work for Frozenbyte, so I'll leave the answer to them.

Though I do remember something you could only do with attachment plates, it's hard to describe in detail; it's more like an eldritch horror than a ship. I like to strike a balance between eldritch and ship for my builds, but that... thing? It scares me.
 
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Kenetor

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#92
Being a person who actively used attachment plates, I don't consider using APs to get custom angles abuse. I don't think something like this would be hurting anyone (other than myself) if I used it. I obviously don't speak for Frozenbyte, but I think they agree that it wasn't really abuse, judging by their use of my planes/submarines in promotional material, including the EA trailer. Again, this is only my speculations, and I think my not being on the official discord only cements that.

That's not to say that people did abuse them, I remember people have made "springs" to absorb collision damage with attachment plates. If I'm correct, you can still achieve that same result with beam welding, though it wouldn't be nearly as compact as with attachment plates. This raises the question, why not just fix the stress system, instead of deleting a feature outright? I don't work for Frozenbyte, so I'll leave the answer to them.

Though I do remember something you could only do with attachment plates, it's hard to describe in detail; it's more like an eldritch horror than a ship. I like to strike a balance between eldritch and ship for my builds, but that... thing? It scares me.
Regardless of who did or did not abuse them, they were abusable so had to go, they were only meant to hold beams together and this got replaced, just sad it took so long to get a proper "beam gap" joining replacement. but at the same time its not like it crippled ship building, and they DID say they didn't know when the replacement would be done by since it wasn't a critical part of the game.
The players that have actively asked for them back is a VERY small % of the playerbase too so we should be happy we got them at all :)
 

Kodey

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#93
they were abusable
I agree! They were possible to abuse, same as beams, but I wouldn't want beams to have the same fate as APs, as I consider beams pretty essential. I'm no game dev, but something abusable and potentially game-breaking getting fixed is a much better outcome than removing a feature outright(IMO). Hell, we saw this recently with one of the changes to the pilot chair instead of removing it.
they DID say they didn't know when the replacement would be done by
True! Makes me wonder how long it actually took them, was it 10 months and 11 days, or maybe something like a week? They removed the timeframe, so we'll never know.
 
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