Poll: Camera

[Timberwolf]

Personally I'd like a camera, but not to see where I'm going. I'd like it so I can seperate turret from gunner.

Spoiler: Lictor

Looking at the Lictor, not only are the turrets exposed but so are the gunners. The glass domes the gunners sit in make for juicy targets.

If it turns out cameras aren't coming and it isn't feasible to create a central fire control system inside the ship, then I'll have to find a way to not only armor up the turret but also squeeze in the gunner.

 

[damoran]

I think they would add a lot of depth to game play options for players regardless of whether or not remote drones become a thing.

but we always need to consider how players can and will abuse something. There is also a certain simplicity to NOT including them.

At this time I'm leaning towards NO cameras.

 

[totoro]

May favorite camera suggestion is still giving people the option to remove their head and like bolt it onto something else and still see through it (as long as it doesn't get shot up)

 

[PopeUrban]

Only if there are dedicated tools specifically for disabling them.

The reason engineers prefer physical windows over cameras in real life is that cameras are notoriously unreliable in comparison. This is why tanks and planes may have cameras, but only in conjunction with physical visibility methods. Cameras are extremely susceptible to dirt and interference due to their small surface area and vulnerable electronics.

Honestly though, I'd prefer we just leave them out altogether for game feel. Its far more interesting to force players to rely on each other's eyes to assess multiple angles of vision than it is to have one person staring at a bank of monitors.

 

[Henkka77]

Yes, limited cameras would be nice in certain situations.

 

[Cmdr Sovereing171]

I strongly believe that giving high rez cameras would be too big of an advantage. Perhaps limited fov.

 

[five]

I'd like to have cameras involved into the actual gameplay, but I understand the points people are making with cameras being potentially overpowered. A way you could balance things is to eliminate all controlls once you enter a camera. Example: You have a battleship with cannonturrets, but you dont want a pilot seat to control it directly. You build an interior control surface and an camera access port. You would have 2 people operate the gun: The aim gunner tells the assistant gunner where he needs to turn the gun in order to hit. The assistant gunner then moves the cannon accordingly and actually shoots the cannon. Another possibility: Spy satellites or Area Control satelites. You have a satelite with an energy source and a camera. Again same principal: One person looks through the camera, the other turns the satelite in a way that you are looking at what you want to look. This would in my opinion remove the need to restrict the camera itself. But here you could argue that 1 person could just have 2 accounts open at the same time looking at the monitor of the camera and moving with the other character. Pls reply with thoughts to my idea

 

[CalenLoki]

I like it. It really captures the non-combat nature of cameras that many of us desires, without making it eyesore like low fps or low res cams.
I'd combine it with short (2-5s) blackout when switching between cameras, so you can't macro controls to work around the limitation.

I'll add it to OP

 

[five]

I like it. It really captures the non-combat nature of cameras that many of us desires, without making it eyesore like low fps or low res cams.
I'd combine it with short (2-5s) blackout when switching between cameras, so you can't macro controls to work around the limitation.

I'll add it to OP

OH great idea! I didn't even think about linking up all cameras into one access port but it would make sence to do that since you probably have everything in one electric system anyway. Also these blackouts wouldn't eliminate the possibility of 1 person using 2 accounts but it would remove the need for to many aim gunners for example.

 

[CalenLoki]

By "switching between cameras" I also meant the one attached to endo head.

I haven't thought about multiboxing. That may be the biggest flaw of the idea.
Unless it's super-restrictive and locks control in given network for everyone. But that'd hitting multi-crewed ships hard.

 

[five]

By "switching between cameras" I also meant the one attached to endo head.

I haven't thought about multiboxing. That may be the biggest flaw of the idea.
Unless it's super-restrictive and locks control in given network for everyone. But that'd hitting multi-crewed ships hard.

yeah u right

 

[Meetbolio]

Would ya look at that, I go away for half a week and a great thread blows up! Amazing timing from kiiyo, once again.

Anyways I'm seeing some amazing suggestions here. And you know what? My opinion has changed. I voted for yes (limited)! I think that if cameras are made to have a super low refresh rate (like ~10 fps, something that anyone would despise in a combat situation), limitations on color output, refresh rate, and lock out of controls might be unnecessary. Simply the fact that images would be updating too slow to respond to anything would be enough in my opinion to block out most if not all attempts at successful borg-cubing. Gives a lot of positives, too: Security cameras, rear-view cameras, selfie cameras... Yeah I think I'd like to see cameras in the game, just with a stupidly low refresh rate.

 

[CalenLoki]

That thread is older than you think
I just bring it up every time someone re-starts the conversation.

 

[five]

Would ya look at that, I go away for half a week and a great thread blows up! Amazing timing from kiiyo, once again.

Anyways I'm seeing some amazing suggestions here. And you know what? My opinion has changed. I voted for yes (limited)! I think that if cameras are made to have a super low refresh rate (like ~10 fps, something that anyone would despise in a combat situation), limitations on color output, refresh rate, and lock out of controls might be unnecessary. Simply the fact that images would be updating too slow to respond to anything would be enough in my opinion to block out most if not all attempts at successful borg-cubing. Gives a lot of positives, too: Security cameras, rear-view cameras, selfie cameras... Yeah I think I'd like to see cameras in the game, just with a stupidly low refresh rate.

How about instead of restricting the camera itself you restrict how you use it (Link: https://forum.starbasegame.com/threads/poll-camera.446/page-3#post-10864 ). This is my idea for limiting the useability of cameras to balance them out

 

[Meetbolio]

How about instead of restricting the camera itself you restrict how you use it (Link: https://forum.starbasegame.com/threads/poll-camera.446/page-3#post-10864 ). This is my idea for limiting the useability of cameras to balance them out

I mean technically not allowing any controls during camera viewing is still a restriction of the camera...
I think that a lower refresh rate of output is a bit better. It still heavily damages combat capabilities, while still allowing cameras to be rear- or alternative-view viewports from which you can look at to control and line up your ship better. The main thing I'd use cameras for would be a rear-view camera, so that I can park my ships nicely in station lots.


But at the same time, why not both? Make a basic and advanced cameras, or just name them Camera Alpha and Camera Beta, or something else to signify they're different; One of them blocks out controls but outputs 60FPS, the other one outputs 10FPS but leaves you to control your ship!

 

[five]

I mean technically not allowing any controls during camera viewing is still a restriction of the camera...
I think that a lower refresh rate of output is a bit better. It still heavily damages combat capabilities, while still allowing cameras to be rear- or alternative-view viewports from which you can look at to control and line up your ship better. The main thing I'd use cameras for would be a rear-view camera, so that I can park my ships nicely in station lots.


But at the same time, why not both? Make a basic and advanced cameras, or just name them Camera Alpha and Camera Beta, or something else to signify they're different; One of them blocks out controls but outputs 60FPS, the other one outputs 10FPS but leaves you to control your ship!

That would be a nice compromiss.

 

[Tagarik]

After a solid PTSD from SE I'm heavily against any cameras and 3rd person cam in any vehicles.

 

[Breadley]

I think the easiest way to balance cameras would be to limit the FoV (roll up a newspaper or magazine and look through that) as you rely a lot on your peripheral vision in combat.

In my opinion the fear of Borg cubes is a bit blown out of proportion as in the offending games (like Empyrion and SE):

• Components do not need power cabling of any kind, you just plop stuff down and they get powered
• In Empyrion you don't even need to pipe ammo, just an ammo box somewhere on the grid
• Ship weapons do not need manual reloading.
• Turrets are aim-bots
• Those games have 3rd person view which makes cameras completely unnecessary even during combat.
• ... welders that repair the armor the turrets and each other as long as you have the parts in storage (SE).