PVE is already failing...

[blazemonger]

Hi FB,
I hope you will keep a balance and a place for PvE gameplay in SB that is not just relegated to boring mining of scraps around the origins.

I am not sure how you come to the conclusion/understanding that the safe zone is there to accomodate PVE gameplay. The safezone is a place where you can dip your toes in the water and get a basic understanding of the game. The entire concept and idea behind the game is that you do not stay there and avoid risk indefinately.

The SZ is not "PVE gameplay" .. It is the training wheels on a kid's bicycle and intended to come off once they know how to ride. And anyone who has been there knows that for the child it is often very scary to see them come off, even when they are perfectly ready to ride without them, they just do not know it yet.

 

[Womble]

I am not sure how you come to the conclusion/understanding that the safe zone is there to accomodate PVE gameplay. The safezone is a place where you can dip your toes in the water and get a basic understanding of the game. The entire concept and idea behind the game is that you do not stay there and avoid risk indefinately.

The SZ is not "PVE gameplay" .. It is the training wheels on a kid's bicycle and intended to come off once they know how to ride. And anyone who has been there knows that for the child it is often very scary to see them come off, even when they are perfectly ready to ride without them, they just do not know it yet.

While I agree with the sentiment, it's also entirely possible (given that the SZ will never empty) for someone to mine (in a pure mining machine that needs no defenses or defenders and only enough speed to not be dallying between mining and dropping off) the heck out of the rocks that will always be in demand and buy the "danger zone" minerals they need on the AH.

 

[Mutleyx]

I am not sure how you come to the conclusion/understanding that the safe zone is there to accomodate PVE gameplay. The safezone is a place where you can dip your toes in the water and get a basic understanding of the game. The entire concept and idea behind the game is that you do not stay there and avoid risk indefinately.

That is a very blinkered view of what this game has to offer. You do not get to dictate how others might want to engage with the experience. If you want to view the safe zone that way, sure, go ahead. But that does not mean that others must do the same.

 

[SubaruSama]

I have literally spend over a week outside of the SZ so far without even going back once into it (and yes, I have enough prop and fuel for that), and well, had no problems with PvP
jokes aside, since there is literally no way PvP me right now

getting out of SZ and never firing a single shot in weeks or months shouldn't be that hard, it's not like every PvP player out there is after you, some are pirate hunters or security forces or mercenaries after all
just abide by some easy tricks/rules, like
- make your homebase in the vicinity of a big faction (there are some with a decent military or soon to be military), you might have to talk to them every now and then, but they will probably scare minor threats away from you, just imagine them being an AI ally in other games
- go the hermit way, search for your little pocket of space, do your stuff and only go back to origin or so every once in a while
- get together with other likeminded individuals for mutual protection, 50 PvE players can still be a decent challenge for 5 PvP players and may not be worth the risk
- don't go after people, once the PvP players are targetting each other for revenge or whatever they are less likely to go after you
- get into contact with some security forces, they might treat you like bait, but well, they will protect you in case anything happens and will most likely cherish any training opportunity for staying in formations and guarding right now
- make use of the CapS SZ and if someone waits right outside, well, just fly away

 

[Mutleyx]

All good points, SubaruSama. Capital Ships will really help with all this I think.

However, living like a hermit doesn't get you access to Moon city, for example, and the quality of ore available in the SZs is currently deteriorating. Those are the main PvE points I was trying to make. FB are aware, my work here is done

 

[blazemonger]

If you want to view the safe zone that way, sure, go ahead. But that does not mean that others must do the same.

Viewing the safezone as "PVE gameplay zone" is indeed IMO missing the point.. and purpose of the safezone. If it helps you if I add IMO to every single post I make in a forum which is pretty much intended for people to share their thoughts an dopinions, I could do that, sure.

 

[cl0ck]

i feel like restocking the safezone just encourages players to never leave it and further fucks the economy/auction house of this game. people SHOULD be leaving the safezone to farm, SHOULD be losing ships (having to spend money/purchase ore's to buy new ones) and SHOULD be out there getting some PVP in. i realize this game is sandboxy and PVE-focused but there needs to be more loss or else you might as well just remove the auction house altogether and say the hell with credits as well.

 

[Mutleyx]

Players will leave the safe zone. Of course they will. The point is that they should not be forced to. It should be optional. Restocking the SZ enables new players and those that want don't immediately want to a chance to build up in safety to get to a position where losing ships is no big deal. Then they will venture further and drive more pvp content.

 

[Womble]

i feel like restocking the safezone just encourages players to never leave it and further fucks the economy/auction house of this game. people SHOULD be leaving the safezone to farm, SHOULD be losing ships (having to spend money/purchase ore's to buy new ones) and SHOULD be out there getting some PVP in. i realize this game is sandboxy and PVE-focused but there needs to be more loss or else you might as well just remove the auction house altogether and say the hell with credits as well.

Restocking the safe zone may well reduce the incentive to leave it, but that's not a Bad Thing, IMO. It means that no one is forced out, and people who simply have no interest in personal PvP can still play the game. The AH will still be there, and will be a forum for PvP by another means; having a portion of the playerbase only farming T1 ores will mean there will always be a baseline supply of those ores that are needed. For higher Tier ores, the AH will tend to drift towards the balance point of supply and demand. If the Danger Zone (?DZ?) players aren't losing ships, the price of those mats will plateau. If they're losing many ships, the demand for higher Tier mats will skyrocket, and the price will go up to compensate for the extra risks.

Currently, the game is only "PVE-focused" because everyone is still bootstrapping themselves. The core intent is far from that, I feel.

 

[Zeffie]

The safezone must be restocked in order to stabilize the economy for starter players BUT also to keep prices manageable as that can be a serious design limitation if resources become finite.

For a specific event, that could have its place BUT in a video game like Starbase, the Eve Online model is preferable. You want ships being built and destroyed in constant measure.

PVE safe zone players also have their place in the game world and provide the illusion of life in the starter area.

Once the factors of production are added to the game, you will see that this will be a perfect storm for balancing gameplay.

 

[Captain Garp]

You need to stop referring to your self as a "PvE Player' You're not a PvE guy or w.e you're just some one who refuses to interact with the whole of the game. It's so silly to force rules on your self and limit the content you can consume.

 

[cl0ck]

You need to stop referring to your self as a "PvE Player' You're not a PvE guy or w.e you're just some one who refuses to interact with the whole of the game. It's so silly to force rules on your self and limit the content you can consume.

this.

 

[Mutleyx]

this.

This.

 

[LauriFB]

We can replenish asteroids anywhere it's needed. SZ is a logical place to run out first, but if it's needed, we are able to replenish asteroids somewhere else too.

However, I think it would be a missed opportunity from our side to do just that, while we could also for example organize a massive rebuilding of new origins somewhere else with help from players, or something similar larger-scale operation. Whichever route we take we'll keep the game running and playable for everyone.

 

[RumRunner]

We can replenish asteroids anywhere it's needed. SZ is a logical place to run out first, but if it's needed, we are able to replenish asteroids somewhere else too.

Ok awesome. If you are open to this and there is a mechanism to do it as well, this works perfect, acting as a loaded gun. If and when the problem arises, an answer can be deployed.

There has been other recent games in the same domain as starbase and they have this problem with no easy way to correct it.

Tha is Lauri!

 

[Joelfett]

Hi FB,

I think the desire to support PVE gameplay is already failing. Reasons:
1) I know there are plenty of asteroids in the Origin SZ area, but most of them are tiny. The bigger ones that players are interested in are going quickly. It's getting that you have to fly further to find them each time. Often you will spot one but when it comes out of low LoD it vanishes. It will only take a week or two more before there's no C9s in the Origin SZ (at least in a 40k radius sphere).
2) There's not enough SZ. Getting from the moon warp gate to anywhere useful seems to take you out of SZ. It seems a shame to deprive PVE players of so much area. I know we need flash points to drive conflict, but I feel the balance is swinging too far towards PvP and forcing it to an extent. Some of us just want to explore and build, without having to fight.

I hope you will keep a balance and a place for PvE gameplay in SB that is not just relegated to boring mining of scraps around the origins.

Cheers,
Mut.

For now, see too it that you carry a weapon when you are looking for exorium i guess?

 

[Salbris]

One big thing everyone here needs to remember is that once stations get upgraded a bunch to the point where a player can build an origin sized station with all the same features we are going to see more and more of the belt being used. At the moment we've barely mined even 0.0001% of it (if not much much less). If we start seeing player stations equipped with their own auction houses out in the middle of the belt we are going to see a drastically different game.

 

[Cavilier210]

Do you not think that as player stations pop up the safezones will essentially be expanded? This of course requires that stations get a lot of love first.

This sooo bad. STations are bugged to hel and need a lot of work. This iteration on stations is worse than the ones we had in CA. At least those didn't eat my resources like mad.

 

[OLO]

That is a very blinkered view of what this game has to offer. You do not get to dictate how others might want to engage with the experience. If you want to view the safe zone that way, sure, go ahead. But that does not mean that others must do the same.

The idea that PVE players are in a vacuum and therefore have no affect on the economy is where I think you've lost the thread of the idea that "most" players should leave the SZ. You, and few others are asking either for expanded SZ's (safe everywhere Dual Uni showed us that this was bad)or the ability to indefinitely stay in the SZ, this is a choice for the minority, intended by the devs, via cap ships, where you and anyone else choosing to do so, will bring their SZ's with them, but still ultimately have to leave and risk their individual ships, its a nice balance compared to EVE, but ultimately, your only getting Tengium from the market, or by risking something. I lean heavy PVP so I could care less what PVE players do, I don't however support game balance that leaves a portion of the game pop free and clear of the dangers of the rest of the playerbase when farming the most expensive ores. Again I think cap ships are a nice balance here with that, as ultimately their's going to be PVE hardliners.

The question is, will it play out this way? Is the cap ship balance enough to please the pure PVE folks that want no conflict, and reduce their overall impact on the economy, and prevent runaway SZ marketeers.

Eve did its best to balance both, to please its no conflict crowd, its high conflict crowd, and those left in the middle that didn't mind either way tended to profit the most game-play wise, as they could dip into the heavy PVE portions of the game, or go live in nullsec/WH space and take part in the PVP. Will it work out here? I'm not sure, its too soon to tell, with all of the most aggresive folks either being deep in the main belt off fighting each other 1000km out, or the average pirates literaly stacking MG's on momentos and manatees to blow up empty miners coming out the gate. Luckily FB seems to have a pretty liberal policy in dealing with ship refunds for the time being so most of the loss is being absorbed I'd say. It's just hard to say what perfectly safe cap ships will do to the economy after a few months, even now prices have hit rock bottom on most ores compared to just a week ago, but thats likely mostly on account of very little new money coming into the economy via new players doing the daily missions or vendoring ores. Maybe working factories will change that like in DU, where theirs just certain stuff you sell to the BOT orders, hard to say at this stage.

 

[William Wolfen]

likely mostly on account of very little new money coming into the economy via new players doing the daily missions or vendoring ores.

So one thing I can think of here, is that there's little need to buy of the AH. You can do the research and make anything you need yourself. I have a bit of an independent steak and have been working on that myself. I've made at least a couple million credits in my time in game, mostly selling parts I've created for research. I've sold a handful of items in the AH. I've bought nothing from it, although that'll likely change at some point as I develop a desire for T2 thrusters. Technically I found just leave the SZ and go find aegesium, so no technical need to buy anything at all.

However, what you're suggesting about the limited number of credits is, at least to me, a good thing. Nothing screws up an economy like runaway inflation. I'd personally prefer to see credits be actually valuable. I don't want the effective base unit of currency to be thousands or millions of credits.