Station Siege Mechanics
- Thread starter Recatek
- Start date
the main balance argument so far, since the debate petered out, was that the dev mode was a tug of war and king of the hill minigame based on attacker-vs-defender fleet strength (number of mil-spec transponders) and would trigger a long dynamic timer. The base estimates I last saw from devs on the subject was like two days of constant presence in the siege-zone for the attacker to bring the safezone down. So we can already see the devs have a more realistic vision of how besieging stations should work, it's a long, annoying, costly affair that isn't started without a lot of preparation, group time investment, and manpower.
Conversely, the systems we players have been chewing on each other over, would see the siege reduced to a handful of hours; some of us want to keep dynamic tug-of-war timer mechanics and an active SZ drop in, others have argued for MMO-style instanced time slots with little to no dynamic mechanics within the siege, though the scaling entry-requirement is present in some models and we've come up with several hybrids of all those design goals by now. Since most MMOs have grossly failed at producing "siegy" sieges and turn them into little instanced raids, which people in my camp of gaming philosophy severely dislike, we don't really have a viable model for "generalised fun" yet, though I think Calen's efforts at hybridisation come very close to creating a system we might all find tolerable if not enjoyable.
Personally, I'd like to see the prep phase have elements that allow espionage interactions when and where antagonists to either party have options in social and stealth gameplay other than mere "straight-laced" sieges, if they feel like long-tail setups to avoid the full costs of attrition. I'd also like to see the actual siege retain the feel of a siege, something you don't want to spend a long time on, but something that the station's defences and protections make necessary- and I can't really say if three hours is large enough of a window to capture that feeling since most games abstract a lot of the tedium and setup of a siege to get to the short, fun part where the assaults occur; this abstraction isn't so easy to do in a live-action mmo, which is why players like myself who enjoy logistics, organisation, and planning always find the instanced implementations of these systems unfun and tedious in their own way.
Conversely, the systems we players have been chewing on each other over, would see the siege reduced to a handful of hours; some of us want to keep dynamic tug-of-war timer mechanics and an active SZ drop in, others have argued for MMO-style instanced time slots with little to no dynamic mechanics within the siege, though the scaling entry-requirement is present in some models and we've come up with several hybrids of all those design goals by now. Since most MMOs have grossly failed at producing "siegy" sieges and turn them into little instanced raids, which people in my camp of gaming philosophy severely dislike, we don't really have a viable model for "generalised fun" yet, though I think Calen's efforts at hybridisation come very close to creating a system we might all find tolerable if not enjoyable.
Personally, I'd like to see the prep phase have elements that allow espionage interactions when and where antagonists to either party have options in social and stealth gameplay other than mere "straight-laced" sieges, if they feel like long-tail setups to avoid the full costs of attrition. I'd also like to see the actual siege retain the feel of a siege, something you don't want to spend a long time on, but something that the station's defences and protections make necessary- and I can't really say if three hours is large enough of a window to capture that feeling since most games abstract a lot of the tedium and setup of a siege to get to the short, fun part where the assaults occur; this abstraction isn't so easy to do in a live-action mmo, which is why players like myself who enjoy logistics, organisation, and planning always find the instanced implementations of these systems unfun and tedious in their own way.
Does this mean that the raid begins with a siege in the normal sense of the word, cutting a base off from resources but not necessarily going in and fighting? Then, if the attackers aren't pushed back soon enough, then they are allowed to attack?
If that's the case, I like the more natural feel of that, rather than some of the more game-y feeling rules suggested above. However, I still vote for a lore backed emergent solution like I outlined on the previous page.
If that's the case, I like the more natural feel of that, rather than some of the more game-y feeling rules suggested above. However, I still vote for a lore backed emergent solution like I outlined on the previous page.
For really siegy feel, maybe from the time siege is declared, station safe zone switch to protecting station itself and docked ships only. So defenders need to actively protect all dynamic assets, like incoming reinforcements, outgoing traffic or construction workers.
With sphere of invulnerability it's just too easy to quickly jump in and out or build new defences in plain sight.
After all siege is about blocking traffic and weakening defenders.
Of course I'd prefer to simply have it all the time like this, so safezone protect only unused, offline stuff. But I know some people prefer full safety, so maybe at least during declared war?
With sphere of invulnerability it's just too easy to quickly jump in and out or build new defences in plain sight.
After all siege is about blocking traffic and weakening defenders.
Of course I'd prefer to simply have it all the time like this, so safezone protect only unused, offline stuff. But I know some people prefer full safety, so maybe at least during declared war?
A proper siege is massively involved, and can involve building forts around the target in two layers to defend the siege force, one (see vid) took 21 years. Doing this in a three-dimensional space is very different, some fantastic simplification is actually required both because players don't live in the game and because full implementation of siege tactics is impractical because the game itself is already simplified.