The Need For Pvp in current state of the game.

[J.D.]

Please,@J.D. and (@blazemonger) both of you, format your text a bit better.
Have some shorter lines. Its horrible to read all that text compacted, my brain melts.

Btw, this is how i see what this argument between you two is about so far.

Blaze, if i got this right your whole post basicly goes about
"
I for one expect that FB will impose more and stricter rules in the code of conduct and terms of service. I expect they will be making stream sniping and (repeated) attacks on moon bases for no reason but to pewpew an bannable offense. They will have to safeguard the accessibility of the game as those who are affected by these rules have no ability to self-impose these limitations and do not understand or see the consequences of what they do.

I understand there are groups in game who fully intend and plan to execute on attacking streamers by using stream sniping if they come to the moon. If they do, streamers will no longer come to the moon and the game will get a bad rep of griefing and toxicity, that may or may not be accurate or valid, but it will happen.
"
So you are for limiting PVP outside of safezones, right? (and also as seen above those expectations are false)

And J.D you are hoping for better ways to find other players (radiation) outside of safezones so you can do more organic PVP.
While saying that you dislike the anti pvp community becourse they were toxic to you and "Then there is the groups that pretty much only see the pewpew aspect of the game" sounds really really condesending and arogant so you placed blaze into the same group.

"If FB would fall for the trap of catering to the masses " I dont get this one... Isnt SB a game where you can decide what you do, as such most people would find something fun as such they are catering to the masses?
"Sitting on your hands, waiting for it to be handed to you though is IMO not going to work, " yes, but im pretty sure J.D didnt mean that...

Im pretty sure (and please correct me here) you cant really scrap ships you destroy. At least not like in the tutorial. Pvp basicly doesnt have a purpose right now exept for fun. And that is quite boring, as you cant find that many people outside the safezones for pvp. As such the people that mostly enjoy pvp are quite bored.

TLDR: The only thing he wanted was to know of a timeframe to know when, whats to come, so the moral doesnt sink into the negatives. With your words, your post had nothing to do with the theme of this thread blaze. I have no idea why this became such a clusterfuck of a thread...

I placed them into that group because they openly place themselves there. Alot of the hardcore pve group will openly talk about their dislike for pvp, and those who do it. As i said before, Ive experienced towards myself often during closed alpha. I'm only stating what they made seek to make clear. So, no I'm not trying to be condescending if i sound like i am....

As for blaze, it does sound like hes trying to put a cap on the pvp outside the safe zone in the name of "griefing" and ive already had this conversation with Lauri. That is not the path they are taking. that would be terrible for the pvp community.

As far as salvaging ships, in not 100 percent sure yet. I do know that i have been able to take parts from wrecks, and go sell them. I know we have a refining process coming too, like, to be able to recycle, and such.

But, yes. I was trying to figure out the time frames of these mechanics to come. Then blaze came in with what sounded like he was a little angry with my subject, and kinda decided to patronize me or something. I agree, it had nothing to do with this thread subject.

But, some information to blaze about dynamic safe zones.. currently the only way to take them down is by sieging with capital ships. thats a very expensive action to take because the capital ships are worth more that stations. Sure, you may get attacked if you are in a specific location that a larger group wants, or youve heavily pissed off a group enough to want to raid you. other than that, i dont think youll be attacked like you think you will. But, trying to control pvp, and take the organic system out of it wont work, and its not even what they are doing.

As for stream sniping, i have no idea. streaming is not something i know much at all about, and i dont really care for it. I never watch them. But, i do understand how that can be annoying for the streamer. i havent had a strong opinion towards it, but i just dont know much about it. But, seeing it from their point of view, i guess i would hope they had a way to protect the streamers. makes sense.. Freezer, i hope that is cleaner for you to read. lol

 

[blazemonger]

@J.D.
I honestly think you are reading too much into my posts/responses. That said, I certainly do not agree that outside of safe zone it's a simple FFA and there are no rules. FB have very clearly said as much, as what does or does not go there is much more dependent on the situation. Any potential issues would need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis as opposed to inside the safe zone, where this is far more obvious. And from that yes, I do expect that over time, FB will add clarifications, issue warnings, and possibly take action.

I used a very simple example of market PVP, that concept goes far deeper that just undercutting someone which mostly happens today because players simple do not understand the concept of markets and just want to sell at the best price they think they can get, not at the price they can actually get, which is generally higher, you just have to show a bit more patience.

Especially regards to stream sniping, if FB does not act, Twitch would as it is a violation of their TOS to do so. And once more, just to be sure, not saying you'd be involved in any of this or show intent to do so, we do clearly not agree on this, and I do expect that over time it will become obvious your position on this is simply not true. Griefing is most definitely something that can be a thing FB will act on, any action outside the safe zone that is geared and designed to upset/limit a player’s options and deny them participation in the game is the very definition of griefing and engaging in this certainly is not "just PVP"

From your above response, it seems you got "attacked" by some who do not agree which is not what I am about. Yes, I am not a PVP focussed player but I also absolutely understand it is a huge part of the game and a risk I may encounter a ttimes. I am fine with that, even when I would not cater to or adjust my playstyle for it outside of my hope that FB will over time give players like me options to mitigate the risk of such an enouter outside of having to "bring guns", and I can also see that in certain cases I may need to take precautions. In that regard I approach this the same as in EVE where I hardly ever fly with weapons fitted because they do not support my activity. I do fit to be able to prevent or avoid confrontation, something I (again) hope to be able to do in SB as development progresses as well.



@Lionard Freezer
My formatting is fine, thanks. Single sentence per paragraph is not "proper formatting".

And no, I am not suggesting to limit PVP outside of safe zones. I never said that nor would I. What I am saying is that FB needs to (and over time during alpha I expect will) be clear on what constitutes combat PVP and what does not, some actions would breach TOS, either for the game of for a platform like Twitch and griefing would be one example of that. And here, the same applies as above, open world FFA PVP does not exclude the possibility of certain action not being allowed and such action would not be considered "proper" PVP and as such, not limit but actually define it, which is not the same thing.

 

[J.D.]

From what I’ve seen Lauri say, that’s exactly what it is, it’s a FFA outside the safe zone, unless you are part of a group, ofc.. He said that they placed these rules to protect the beginner player base in the safe zone, and included those who do not wish to engage in pvp, inside the safe zone. I do not think there is an idea of a rule that will protect players once they leave this zone. What so ever. That would not make sense, and would fundamentally change the way outside the sz works, and I believe a lot of negativity would be received because of it.. But, @LauriFB would you mind chiming in for some clarity on this subject please sir? As to what you envision the non safe xone to be like? Is there an instance where something would happen outside the safe zone that you all would not allow, an example, if you will?

 

[blazemonger]

I can see all this being in flux and remaining so for a while. I hope FB will be able to find a balance between engaging and fun PVP being as unrestricted as possible while protecting the longevity of the game as a whole, which needs to be much more than just combat PVP. That is a challenge in every MMO, and many have failed while only very few have been able to find that balance.

I feel your interpretation of what was said is really not correct and expect FB will do what they said, look at whatever comes up outside the safe zone and take it on a case-by-case basis which over time sets up a clear framework of what does or does not go.

As an MMO, this game is what you make of it, but at the same time, how you interpret that will shape where this game goes and what content you may encounter. Do you want players of all kinds and styles to co-exist and create a game environment where there is something for everyone or do you just want to shoot guns, the latter seem rather single minded and one sided to me?

What you do in game should both matter and must have consequences. There is no free rides here. The "morals only sink into the negatives unless you are told what is to come next from the devs" for those who are unable or unwilling to play the game like an MMO and adopt/adjust as you go, even in this early stage of development for the game.


Getting back on topic for the thread though...
As I see it, the OP you wrote pretty much defines your idea as focused around being able to engage what you can win, not what gives you a good fight with risk and reward. "no one is stopping the miners" seems to me to be a very shallow and simple focus for a deep game like SB will hopefully become. But even then, instead of complaining about that, why are you, your discord group or fellow PVP players not creating content which fixes that instead of complaining about it? IMO, that is the whole idea of SB as an MMO. If you can't find the miners, I guess you wil need to get good as they are out there, outside the safe zone, every day and in numbers as the amount of ores coming in and the market movement tells us this is the case.

"maybe having some kind of temporary instanced pvp zone where you wouldn’t have to lose your stuff just to get that pvp fix " .. Why would having your PVP fix need to include not risking losing stuff? The whole point of the game, as I see it, is that's what happens, loss of "stuff" is part of the deal, and you need to accept that. For me, that very point is part of why I am here, I dislike games that do not make you lose your stuff when you die or damage your ship. solving the problem of being stranded is part of the fun and do not fly what you can't afford to lose. I really hope that we will see inventory also get lost when you die eventually, keeping that stuff is just too easy.

I asked previously but why are you and your friends not arranging fights, if only to learn the mechanics and hone your skills? As the saying goes, you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. In order to get good, you will need to lose and experience loss. It's been well established and there is scientific data to support that this is a primary driver for players in MMO games to stick with it and learn/progress. Why are you not working with miner groups and arrange an exchange, they provide you with materials to repair and improve your ships, you provide them cover and security getting the materials you both need. You know, how about actually playing the game and start interacting and communicating outside your bubble of like minded players.


It's very interesting to me that I, as a non PVP focussed player, have no problem with the risk of encountering PVP and possibly losing my ship and what's in/on it during my daily expeditions outside of the safe zone, while you seem to expect to be handed content and are very much unwilling to take any risk by putting focus on engaging non-combatant players while asking for a free pass when you were to directly engage in PVP with others who may pose a risk by asking for content which will not have you lose anything.

I expected when I came to this game to get caught about 1 in 10 trips.. I have not gotten caught yet, while that obviously is just a matter of time.

But then, I know where most of the "pirates" are and so know to get around them fairly easily. Running virtually armor-less and undefended 500 crate miners outside the safe zone is so low risk, many do it and do it daily. We have refuelling and waypoint stations out there and hardly ever see a soul but our own company mates. Obviously, some of these stations will get discovered over time but that's a calculated risk and it will just mean we decommission them and switch routes. As the capitals come in hopefully next week, we'll be ready and have our plans, they will allow us to expand even further and faster.

So you see, plenty of content from my perspective. And none of it was created for me/us, we made our own, had fun doing it and enjoy using it now. There is so much to do.. you only need to.. go do it and stop asking for it to be handed to you.

 

[J.D.]

dude you just don’t get it. You don’t get to dictate how I play, or any others play. I don’t care if you don’t like it. You are obviously extremely triggered by this subject. You just won’t accept pvp for what it is. I already told you that this has been something Lauri has explained. heres the thread. And now you are accusing me of not wanting to risk losing my shit, and accused me of only going for miners when i specifically said otherwise earlier up the thread. Accusing me of wanting everything handed to me. Me, and freezer already explained the whole reason i made this thread was trying to figure out the time like to radiation tech, and such. these are mechanics in the game THEY decided to add in the game. Its not being made to hand to me. This is ridiculous dude. You have absolutely the wrong idea about what im wanting in the game. You are toxic. Im done trying to explain myself. read this, heres facts. Pretty self explanatory. If this isnt enough, i would suggest you talk to the devs yourself.

It's all outlined pretty clearly in the first post, but I'll explain the reasoning also:

• Safe zone is for new players or those who do not seek conflict. It's in any case a safe area, including all deception to lure people out from there.
• Non-safe zone is basically the entire universe. It is not safe, in fact it's guaranteed loss of a ship. If you venture there and don't face a single player an asteroid will still destroy your ship. We promise a total loss for everyone taking the risk outside the safe zone, and we don't care does that happen by players or by fuel running out.
• Social engineering rules are there to prevent luring people out of safe zones, or to prevent stealing stations, bases or capital ships via deception. Social engineering rules do not cover faction espionage, but they are designed to protect pve players. So social engineering rules are mainly there to block bypassing safe zone rules.

TL;DR Safe Zones are safe, we don't allow any technicality or other trick to bypass them. In other hand, universe outside the safe zone is supposed to kill everyone.

 

[Klaes]

@blazemonger dude, ive been a part of this game for a year. i was in closed alpha. Im not just some rando looking to blow shit up. im passionate about the game too. i dont appreciate your insults in your subtle way of attempting to make me look like a mindless pew pew troll. There are other play styles than pve, this game is not just for those who are afraid to get shot at. you have a safe zone that will never go away, no matter what. you cannot be fooled, stolen from, absolutely anything that will even begin to ruin your gameplay without the devs hammering the shit out of the trolls and banning them without hesitation. I can tell my yearning for pvp pisses you off. Ive noticed out of any game i have ever played, the pve community in starbase is the most toxic ive ever seen from all their sarcastic little subtle insults trying to make pvp look like its not a viable play style, and also trying to make pvp players look stupid as if their opinion doesnt matter. Its a terrible attitude, and you all need to stop. The game has more than one play style dude. The pvp people are getting bored. Pvp makes up a huge part of this game too. get over yourself. We are just as important as you all are. The mechanic i am most interested in in the current state is radiation technology. This will make us pvp enthusiasts pretty happy. None of you are in danger if you dont leave the safe zone. You seem super jaded from a game in the past. Im not a streamer, nor do i watch streams, at all. i have no interest in them. I dont know why people do honestly, but I dont fit your stereotype. you pve people need to get rid of this stereotype because its not positive towards the community. Also, this topic of safe zone vs non safe zone rules has been a subject ive dived deep into to find out exactly what is ok. Lauri came in that thread and pretty much said that safe zone will be protected from any, and every type of trolling there is. you cant lose anything in safe zone. if you do, youll be refunded, and the troll will be punished. Outside the safe zone, Lauri said you are garaunteed to loose everything you bring out there. that was his exact words. they are allowing any kind of pvp. But he also said thats why they are implementing civilian capital ships for players who dont wish to engage in pvp, and will be able to keep what they have without worry of being sieged. people like yourself sound like you are trying to completely control the pvp aspect of the game. trying to turn it into an organized environment, which is not AT ALL what we want. what you are wanting is not going to happen, because you already have so many mechanics in play that keeps you safe. reasons as to why i like pvp is a little RP. ever heard of eve online? know why i joined? the stories on youtube. they were epic. factions seeking riches through conquest is why i like pvp. Did you not see all those trailer vids they made early on that showed all this huge factional warfare? showing the amazing damage mechanics, and how much fun itll be to duke it out? this game isnt a mining sim. nor is it only pvp. i support the economy side, and building, in fact, if the economy part was not in game, i would be upset. it adds alot of content, and depth even to combat. i love it. you guys have your gameplay style that is unbreakably protected by safe zones. So, stop trying to take our gameplay away, you wont succeed. many others feel the same. You all are the ones who are negatively impacting the game. not us. You assume we all are just trying to wreck the game, and you couldnt be more wrong. Im sure i speak for a huge number of people out there to say, we dont appreciate this. let it go. its a terrible attitude. You, and the playerbase like you. I have never seen a pvp guy in this community talk ill of the pve group. only when they start disrespecting us, do we grow angry. Most of us support your gameplay style.

LOL. You're playing a game that isn't halfway done. I recommend you try growing up so as not to get offended by others online.

 

[Captain Garp]

Please,@J.D. and (@blazemonger) both of you, format your text a bit better.
Have some shorter lines. Its horrible to read all that text compacted, my brain melts.

Btw, this is how i see what this argument between you two is about so far.

Blaze, if i got this right your whole post basicly goes about
"
I for one expect that FB will impose more and stricter rules in the code of conduct and terms of service. I expect they will be making stream sniping and (repeated) attacks on moon bases for no reason but to pewpew an bannable offense. They will have to safeguard the accessibility of the game as those who are affected by these rules have no ability to self-impose these limitations and do not understand or see the consequences of what they do.

I understand there are groups in game who fully intend and plan to execute on attacking streamers by using stream sniping if they come to the moon. If they do, streamers will no longer come to the moon and the game will get a bad rep of griefing and toxicity, that may or may not be accurate or valid, but it will happen.
"
So you are for limiting PVP outside of safezones, right? (and also as seen above those expectations are false)

And J.D you are hoping for better ways to find other players (radiation) outside of safezones so you can do more organic PVP.
While saying that you dislike the anti pvp community becourse they were toxic to you and "Then there is the groups that pretty much only see the pewpew aspect of the game" sounds really really condesending and arogant so you placed blaze into the same group.

"If FB would fall for the trap of catering to the masses " I dont get this one... Isnt SB a game where you can decide what you do, as such most people would find something fun as such they are catering to the masses?
"Sitting on your hands, waiting for it to be handed to you though is IMO not going to work, " yes, but im pretty sure J.D didnt mean that...

Im pretty sure (and please correct me here) you cant really scrap ships you destroy. At least not like in the tutorial. Pvp basicly doesnt have a purpose right now exept for fun. And that is quite boring, as you cant find that many people outside the safezones for pvp. As such the people that mostly enjoy pvp are quite bored.

TLDR: The only thing he wanted was to know of a timeframe to know when, whats to come, so the moral doesnt sink into the negatives. With your words, your post had nothing to do with the theme of this thread blaze. I have no idea why this became such a clusterfuck of a thread...

Bravo

 

[blazemonger]

dude you just don’t get it. You don’t get to dictate how I play, or any others play. I don’t care if you don’t like it. You are obviously extremely triggered by this subject. You just won’t accept pvp for what it is. I already told you that this has been something Lauri has explained. heres the thread. And now you are accusing me of not wanting to risk losing my shit, and accused me of only going for miners when i specifically said otherwise earlier up the thread. Accusing me of wanting everything handed to me. Me, and freezer already explained the whole reason i made this thread was trying to figure out the time like to radiation tech, and such. these are mechanics in the game THEY decided to add in the game. Its not being made to hand to me. This is ridiculous dude. You have absolutely the wrong idea about what im wanting in the game. You are toxic. Im done trying to explain myself. read this, heres facts. Pretty self explanatory. If this isnt enough, i would suggest you talk to the devs yourself.

Actually no, I said, your initial post indicated you are bored and that in your circles "no oone is going after miners". I literally said why do nyou not do something about that then. I never, in no way said that you were only going for miners. You also literally asked for an instanced game mode where you can get your PVP fix undistrurbed and without risk of losing anything, it was exactly what you asked for in OP.

Also, I still fail to see how and/or where I dictate anything as I do not, I very specifically put that ball down in FB's corner and only ask them to, over time, set up the framework that defines how PVP works in the game. It is entirely theirs to decide and design. What they do or do not do will then determine the kind of game SB becomes and playstyles found in the game.

I've been talking to people in a community discord I am a part of, and it seems over all that the pvp group is growing bored. Im even seeing pve people wanting to see pirates because the auction house ore prices are starting to drop. there is just too much ore. no one is stopping the miners. I know we have more mechanics to come to help balance things to help keep the economy flowing. But, alot of us would really like to have some content soon towards pvp. There are people who have spent hours outside the safe zone to find no one. Alot of us get pretty bored just taking mining routes back, and forth. Some have even suggested maybe having some kind of temporary instanced pvp zone where you wouldnt have to loose your stuff just to get that pvp fix. it would probably help with testing too. We ran into a few issues coming into early access simply because there was not enough pvp testing. One of which, we found out the tripod was too op. Here we are again. I understand the need to really clean up the new player experience, to be safe, and all that. But, the other side of the player base is getting really bored. devs, can you all add anything to help us understand what is to come, and about what time frame to keep the moral positive? Alot of us are really anxious for that radiation technology.

In this conversation there is indeed one party who does not want to accept the game for what it is and guess what, it's not me. Also, I am not accusing anyone of anything I am making observations and presenting them as such, again, here the only one accusing anyone of anything is you actually.

You mention radiation tech once, at the end o fthe post and it certainly is not the main focus, it's more presented as an afterthought on something you'd be interested to know as it may help your playstyle. I do not know what this tech will mean or do so can't comment on it...

There is plenty of content out there, I know as I am part of it. You conveniently ignore anything that does not serve your "bored peeveepee-er" facade, rip what does serve your narrative out of context and hammer down on it.

It's fine though, you seem to not want to look beyond your own ideas and seem unwilling or unable to actually answer any reasonable questions or suggestions towards finding/creating content, instead continue to sit by waiting for it to be delivered to you. The post Lauri made does not actually say anything that supports your idea that simply anything goes outside of safezones and neither do the TOS. All they say is that actions outside safe zone have deadly consequence in general which should be obvious to anyone.

In general I think you need a mirror as IMO your words reflect pretty closely on your own attitude and opinion.

 

[Quevin]

Radiation tech isn't going to fix underlying issue with the PvP side of the game. Your best defense on all ships is to go at max speed. Even assuming rad. detection is in, try chasing a transponder target. If the target goes close to anywhere near max speed, I wouldn't waste your time and just call it off..

Organic PvP has been in a terrible state, it has to be addressed.

There is plenty of content out there, I know as I am part of it. You conveniently ignore anything that does not serve your "bored peeveepee-er" facade, rip what does serve your narrative out of context and hammer down on it.

There is little to no content in the game, The SSC is by far the most extended content you can find in the game.

To put it down very simplistic, you can mine and build ships, that's about the extend for content in this game.

I've aprox. 2.5k hours at this point in the game. Chasing targets waiting for them to leave Safezone has been extremely boring. Organic PvP has huge amount of lacks in many areas of the game.

 

[Kane Hart]

They just added fully functional trading station in the belt (PTU). That should create quite some traffic between starting safe zone and the new one.

Just join my cause and ask them to make the safe zone smaller than 50km....10-20km would be ok.
It's a station for more experienced players anyway.

That is not PvP that is griefing. Pirates don't need to be sitting there watching the entire time. They should be 100km+ deep waiting and lurky into the depth of the belt via the trade route.

If this not what you like then you are playing the wrong game. This not suppose to be counterstrike lol.

 

[Quevin]

That is not PvP that is griefing. Pirates don't need to be sitting there watching the entire time. They should be 100km+ deep waiting and lurky into the depth of the belt via the trade route.

If this not what you like then you are playing the wrong game. This not suppose to be counterstrike lol.

To you everything PvP is griefing xD

guess what everything outside the Safe Zone is fair game, any situation involving 2 players is considered PvP, even if the other person doesn't shoot back or has nothing to shoot back with. its still a Player vs Player situation.

 

[blazemonger]

I found some information on the radiation tech and it seems interesting in concept and kind of an alternative to radar. It may work well if expensive enough to not be usable on a cheap throw away ship and allow for emissions to be mittigated by adding shielding (not shields, shiedling) during design/construction.. possible with an item similar to the enhancer or applying shielding properties to certain ores to be used in plating. It could be awsome for use in decoys if you could design "dirty" generators with a massive amount of radiation.. Plenty of opportunity for gameplay and strategy there once the tech arrives.


Asking for safe zones to be smaller to be able to have a better overview and reduce the circumference of where players may exit means you are just sitting there, in many cases in the safe zone yourself, only to come out and strike if a target that poses no threat comes out. I'd agree it's not griefing, but I'd certainly call it dull and unimaginative gameplay.

Already this behaviour is observed, risk averse hiding in plain sight with no pre-emptive measures possible as the attacker does not expose themselves to vulnerability unless sure of a win and no risk of damage/loss.

It's just amazing to me that so many PVP focused players actually do not consider that they may need to do work to "get their PVP on" and will need to get out there themselves, often complaining about how the only content is "mining and building ships".

This is an MMO, and as @Kane Hart correctly pointed out, not Counterstrike where you get fed your content by the game. The idea of an MMO is that you create your content _yourself_, like many of us do. And so far, in large part due to the lack of creativity and initiative by a large group of "bored PVP players", there is little to no risk to what we are doing.

It's so funny to read that "organic PVP is in a terrible state" in the post above. I mean, no it's not, it's just that you are not willing to spend the time finding targets, which in many cases will actually not be the fastest in the game, especially as they carry ores in many cases. Why do PVP groups not set up nets, where they find targets and then direct their uplink ahead of it, towards it. I mean do I really have to be the one to explain achievable and interesting strategies as a non PVP player here?

Problem seems to be that many PVP players are in a single player game where they do not even consider multiplayer/group tactics. You just want to sit in your ship, wait for the content to come to you and often just run and hide if that content may actually pose a risk to you and your ship.

Why not have scouts sit at Origin stations, follow miners going out, then bringing in friends. I see nothing in TOS preventing that (it would be very odd to me if this would not be allowed gameplay) and seems fair play to me as you do not lure anyone out of the safe zone, you just follow a potential target. I mean, the content is out there, you just do not see it or seem uninterested to put in the effort to create it. And again, why am I giving these free tips and suggestions I do not know but there you are..

 

[Quevin]

I found some information on the radiation tech and it seems interesting in concept and kind of an alternative to radar. It may work well if expensive enough to not be usable on a cheap throw away ship and allow for emissions to be mittigated by adding shielding (not shields, shiedling) during design/construction.. possible with an item similar to the enhancer or applying shielding properties to certain ores to be used in plating. It could be awsome for use in decoys if you could design "dirty" generators with a massive amount of radiation.. Plenty of opportunity for gameplay and strategy there once the tech arrives.


Asking for safe zones to be smaller to be able to have a better overview and reduce the circumference of where players may exit means you are just sitting there, in many cases in the safe zone yourself, only to come out and strike if a target that poses no threat comes out. I'd agree it's not griefing, but I'd certainly call it dull and unimaginative gameplay.

Already this behaviour is observed, risk averse hiding in plain sight with no pre-emptive measures possible as the attacker does not expose themselves to vulnerability unless sure of a win and no risk of damage/loss.

It's just amazing to me that so many PVP focused players actually do not consider that they may need to do work to "get their PVP on" and will need to get out there themselves, often complaining about how the only content is "mining and building ships".

This is an MMO, and as @Kane Hart correctly pointed out, not Counterstrike where you get fed your content by the game. The idea of an MMO is that you create your content _yourself_, like many of us do. And so far, in large part due to the lack of creativity and initiative by a large group of "bored PVP players", there is little to no risk to what we are doing.

It's so funny to read that "organic PVP is in a terrible state" in the post above. I mean, no it's not, it's just that you are not willing to spend the time finding targets, which in many cases will actually not be the fastest in the game, especially as they carry ores in many cases. Why do PVP groups not set up nets, where they find targets and then direct their uplink ahead of it, towards it. I mean do I really have to be the one to explain achievable and interesting strategies as a non PVP player here?

Problem seems to be that many PVP players are in a single player game where they do not even consider multiplayer/group tactics. You just want to sit in your ship, wait for the content to come to you and often just run and hide if that content may actually pose a risk to you and your ship.

Why not have scouts sit at Origin stations, follow miners going out, then bringing in friends. I see nothing in TOS preventing that (it would be very odd to me if this would not be allowed gameplay) and seems fair play to me as you do not lure anyone out of the safe zone, you just follow a potential target. I mean, the content is out there, you just do not see it or seem uninterested to put in the effort to create it. And again, why am I giving these free tips and suggestions I do not know but there you are..

Dude, its clear you have no clue what you are talking about, I've litterly done exactly what you stated here. Guess what following targets out is almost the only viable way. and Yes its honestly boring AF, most ships won't go outside the Safezone.

Again, PvP in general has issues on all fronts, but I won't bother going into it, clearly you have little to no experience in the area looking at your post.

 

[blazemonger]

The game is in early Alpha, of course things like PVP will have "issues on all fronts".

Just because I have a non PVP focused gameplay prefrence does not imply I do not understand PVP. In fact being a non PVP focused player it is in my interest to understand the mechanc in game, I just choose to not engage in it unless I have to and/or am in a position to. I watch a lot of PVP gameplay and see many having great fun with it, even while there's clear "issues". I must admit that these mostly are players able and willing to think outside the immediate "PVP box" and often include some RP gameplay into the mix which is because in RP, it is actually the quirks and weakness that make the gameplay and can be "played out" into content and yes, having fun.

The roadmap for this year quite clearly has little focus on (ship to ship) combat PVP and I can see why. As in any game, this is insanely hard to get right and it makes total sense it is not currently a priority for the devs, as they will need to have and take the time to start addressing that AND they need to have all the prerequisites in place for that to happen. This is not the time in the game's development to do that IMO.

In fairness to the OP, and having read up on it, the ask about the radiation mechanic makes sense as it will be an asset to PVP and an interesting mechanic overall, but at the same time, this in itself would be very complex and possibly impact so many other game mechanics, I can see its arrival be months away, likely sometime early next year or so.

We cannot stress enough that Starbase launches into Early Access in a clear "alpha" state. This means many features are missing and there are plenty of bugs. We have a long way to go until we can consider the game having all the features (or even all the core gameplay features) complete

Anyone coming in to the game now and expecting a polished, release quality game did not bother to read the very clear disclaimer and has entirely incorrect expectations. I'd say come back in a year or so if being part of the process is not your thing. Saying "it's broken" really has no value at all for anyone as it is not constructive in any way.

 

[J.D.]

That is not PvP that is griefing. Pirates don't need to be sitting there watching the entire time. They should be 100km+ deep waiting and lurky into the depth of the belt via the trade route.

If this not what you like then you are playing the wrong game. This not suppose to be counterstrike lol.

Wrong. According to lauri, this is not griefing. Outside the safe zone, pirates can do whatever the hell they want on how to attack you.

 

[J.D.]

Actually no, I said, your initial post indicated you are bored and that in your circles "no oone is going after miners". I literally said why do nyou not do something about that then. I never, in no way said that you were only going for miners. You also literally asked for an instanced game mode where you can get your PVP fix undistrurbed and without risk of losing anything, it was exactly what you asked for in OP.

Also, I still fail to see how and/or where I dictate anything as I do not, I very specifically put that ball down in FB's corner and only ask them to, over time, set up the framework that defines how PVP works in the game. It is entirely theirs to decide and design. What they do or do not do will then determine the kind of game SB becomes and playstyles found in the game.





In this conversation there is indeed one party who does not want to accept the game for what it is and guess what, it's not me. Also, I am not accusing anyone of anything I am making observations and presenting them as such, again, here the only one accusing anyone of anything is you actually.

You mention radiation tech once, at the end o fthe post and it certainly is not the main focus, it's more presented as an afterthought on something you'd be interested to know as it may help your playstyle. I do not know what this tech will mean or do so can't comment on it...

There is plenty of content out there, I know as I am part of it. You conveniently ignore anything that does not serve your "bored peeveepee-er" facade, rip what does serve your narrative out of context and hammer down on it.

It's fine though, you seem to not want to look beyond your own ideas and seem unwilling or unable to actually answer any reasonable questions or suggestions towards finding/creating content, instead continue to sit by waiting for it to be delivered to you. The post Lauri made does not actually say anything that supports your idea that simply anything goes outside of safezones and neither do the TOS. All they say is that actions outside safe zone have deadly consequence in general which should be obvious to anyone.

In general I think you need a mirror as IMO your words reflect pretty closely on your own attitude and opinion.

Ok. Fair enough. So I’ll get back on track of what my whole purpose for this is…… I want to know when radiation tech comes, so that way I can find people rather than spending hours and not finding content. I work full time, and I have a wife, and child on the way. I have responsibilities. I don’t have time to sit on the game all day. Radiation technology, and upcoming radar mechanic, will help to make my gameplay a little better. I feel as though the pvp content is lacking in the current state. That includes the benefits of pvp, which is salvaging, so I’m left bored. I pretty much just work on my fighter in ssc, and go out mining sometimes….. As for the subject of the devs making clear what’s ok, and not ok outside the safe zone, what are you so concerned about? Give me an example of something you think would be a problem outside the safe zone? Because what Lauri said is pretty clear. In fact, I’ll give you the context of that thread, I was asking Lauri is griefing exists outside the safe zone. I was asking if there is anything we could do that would break a rule, his quote that I posted was his response.

 

[Venombrew]

Wrong. According to lauri, this is not griefing. Outside the safe zone, pirates can do whatever the hell they want on how to attack you.

Wrong. According to lauri, this is not griefing. Outside the safe zone, pirates can do whatever the hell they want on how to attack you.

1. i totally agree with what J.D. said, infact pirates are the enemy "mobs" for this game in a sense. pirates bring in that risk vs reward and gives players something to worry about and to stay on guard.

2. if you think guys waiting in the non sz borders(who ships are at jeporady from all the asteroids as well) is tough. wait til they open the moon fully. all resources from the moon surface to the belt is not in a safe zone, you can't build a moon base in a safe zone, and you have to be 300m from the edge of the city safezone(which isn't very big) and 300m from all other player stations. to mine resources will be in the non safe zone.

the real pvp we all been waiting on is about to start. so if what you had to deal with so far was a struggle your freaking heads are gonna explode(metaphorically and probably literally) during the moon advancement.

 

[blazemonger]

the real pvp we all been waiting on is about to start. so if what you had to deal with so far was a struggle your freaking heads are gonna explode(metaphorically and probably literally) during the moon advancement.

Nah.. I think the expectations of moons opening up being where the "real PVP starts" is at best an overvalued opinion. The moons seem pretty big and if you think that we have not already scouted a location far off the beaten path, you have another thing coming. By the time you find this base, it will be well established and secured.

All you will catch is those who did not prepare and just come in through the front door, in part because that is the only place you will be looking.. It's good to understand the basic mindset of your average "pirate" when working to avoid running ito them.


While it will take time to get the balance right, I would expect FB to have done their homework and so would design potential interactions related to base attacks with a built in advantage to the defending party. I know too little about the base building on the moons to really have an opinion on it but we will see how this develops over time. I woudl expect measures to prevent offline raids which will generally involve timers. If there is any good refernce to the plans, I'd be interested to read it so please provide links if you have them.

 

[J.D.]

1. i totally agree with what J.D. said, infact pirates are the enemy "mobs" for this game in a sense. pirates bring in that risk vs reward and gives players something to worry about and to stay on guard.

2. if you think guys waiting in the non sz borders(who ships are at jeporady from all the asteroids as well) is tough. wait til they open the moon fully. all resources from the moon surface to the belt is not in a safe zone, you can't build a moon base in a safe zone, and you have to be 300m from the edge of the city safezone(which isn't very big) and 300m from all other player stations. to mine resources will be in the non safe zone.

the real pvp we all been waiting on is about to start. so if what you had to deal with so far was a struggle your freaking heads are gonna explode(metaphorically and probably literally) during the moon advancement.

Lol, yep. It’ll be a good addition. From what I’ve read coming from blaze, it sounds like he wants to see the game prevent all this combat on the moon, at the very least, keep it restricted.

 

[J.D.]

Nah.. I think the expectations of moons opening up being where the "real PVP starts" is at best an overvalued opinion. The moons seem pretty big and if you think that we have not already scouted a location far off the beaten path, you have another thing coming. By the time you find this base, it will be well established and secured.

All you will catch is those who did not prepare and just come in through the front door, in part because that is the only place you will be looking.. It's good to understand the basic mindset of your average "pirate" when working to avoid running ito them.


While it will take time to get the balance right, I would expect FB to have done their homework and so would design potential interactions related to base attacks with a built in advantage to the defending party. I know too little about the base building on the moons to really have an opinion on it but we will see how this develops over time. I woudl expect measures to prevent offline raids which will generally involve timers. If there is any good refernce to the plans, I'd be interested to read it so please provide links if you have them.

Lol wait a minute.. have you not seen the siege mechanic video starbase put out? How long have you been in game?