The Woe of the Renegades/ Are the Villains of the Free-Space at risk?

[GooseMan-HonkDealer]

Star Base faces a hidden threat.
A faceless opponent that will likely affect the nature of conflict and commerce in the free space as a whole and the immediate future of the game. It is a deep-rooted and well-hidden type of danger, one that remains under the surface of all player interactions and countless other aspects of the game and may spell chaos in the Early stages of Early Access.
(For the sake of this discussion to flow smoothly, I would ask and encourage those that read to adopt the language and terms I will graft, for they will have a common and frequent use to streamline and make constant addresses upon numerous areas . This is also a topic of Concept and principle natures, dependent largely upon the Nature of the player community and social mindsets.)

The main goal of this thread is to address concerns of player behavior and interactions as well as the consequences of player interactions.

In this thread we will also carry the hypothetical that the DEVs will not act upon these issues with their direct intervention, and that it is solely on us as players to carry these burdens and resolve within our own processes.
I am asking the Devs that read this to witness us as players and not be held to any special requests or accommodation we may be inclined to ask for, and to act of their own mind after.

Foreword​

For those that know me publicly outside these forums, I am a strong and vocal advocate for pirates and mercenaries and other similar faction types within the future of the game. And not just in their presence but in their natures and the roles they will and could serve in the universe.

I believe wholeheartedly in the future of these groups and of their chosen trade. And I believe in the concerns and the fears I hold for these renegades and rogues.

Above all else, I Believe that these groups are the key to the future of Starbase, and I fear they may be at risk of non-existence.


I Will be Attaching a Doc File Below: I cannot post the Full Article on the Forums for exceeding the Character limit.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RFhrHWPXKbdHD-eQNypwW9g8kEJfeIFNwXWYTdElpxU/edit?usp=sharing

 

[GooseMan-HonkDealer]

I know that the document is a lot to read all at one time, and that the formatting style may be too complex or difficult to see at the start (i'll try and edit it accordingly, it was rushed into google docs when I found I could not post here).

But I only ask that those that look on it to actually read it in its entirety and take my message from it.

 

[five]

I havent started to read the document but i will first of all read it and secondly know what your concern is

 

[StarStoks]

Suggestion to polling: I think the poll should have more options. On first glance, before reading your write up, I wasn’t really too sure where I fit in. ( Honestly still don’t) but I think adding some more options to the poll can help you get a feel for the communities vibe on the topic as well as track and see if your article is helping people understand and persuade them to support renegades in Starbase. Polling options like; “Undecided before write up”, “Undecided after reading write up”, “I believe in this playstyle but don’t plan on playing it.” I think this will give people more of an option and won’t scare them into not picking anything at all, since it can feel like an absolute.

My thoughts on your write up
I overall really liked the formatting of the post. It took me a second to understand the concepts behind the terminology but as I got deeper down I started understanding what you were referring to.

I do agree that having other means of sustaining yourself that is built on pvp, conflict and strife adds another layer of risk and reward, both for players with the Renegade mindset, as well as the Commerce group of people. These two playing off each other could really create some dynamic moments that are self sustaining in the long run.

A nagging thought, that’s been bothering me is how griefing would be dealt with, if at all. Because in a game this size, with the ability to construct so many things, there are bound to be many people who want to tear down others, and playing Games like Rust, Minecraft vanilla servers etc can be disheartening and entirely dissuade people from wanting to engage in the creative aspects of the game.

It wasn’t until you mentioned the Devs stance on social engineering, that I had to ask someone in discord to link me to it and see what their statements are. The crux of their rules are built around the players who do not want to engage in conflict. And to me, personally this is exciting as many archetypes can crop up out of this and allow people to focus on one thing in particular and really master a trade which makes this game unique. Even non combative players can find solutions to the overall conflicts being had at large through building, trading and socially developing networks that aren’t grief based. It’s clear Devs want to cultivate this as they have stated by either adding in game mechanics or intervention in order to keep this crux true.

Renegade style plays in between a fine line based on the rules the devs have stated, and while it is not set in stone; mainly because we are still in alpha, for the most part I believe you are right that the idea of being a renegade is scary because of the uncertainty of your actions being punished by devs and not in game actions (they did say that jail option would eventually come) but the looming thought of being banned doesn’t really feel it’s worth the risk.


As players and as a community hopefully the culture of the game can shape out to accommodate this playstyle. Thanks for the write up, it made me think deeper about the overall roles that may develop in this game and hope it can prop up the foundation of Starbase.

 

[Quevin]

So ... overall terrible read, TLDR: Community says pirates are bad, devs please fix.

PvP is and will get updates, the devs are aware.

This game will have its PvP community and mark my words, it will be "Rust in Space".
KoS everywhere, people might not like it today, but they will have to deal with it if they want to or not.

 

[XenoCow]

So ... overall terrible read, TLDR: Community says pirates are bad, devs please fix.

PvP is and will get updates, the devs are aware.

This game will have its PvP community and mark my words, it will be "Rust in Space".
KoS everywhere, people might not like it today, but they will have to deal with it if they want to or not.

I'm not sure that summary is fair, I didn't find it "terrible" like you say it is. He's not suggesting that the community thinks pirates are bad, just that there is way more incentive to join a stable group doing commerce related activities.

 

[GooseMan-HonkDealer]

So ... overall terrible read, TLDR: Community says pirates are bad, devs please fix.

PvP is and will get updates, the devs are aware.

This game will have its PvP community and mark my words, it will be "Rust in Space".
KoS everywhere, people might not like it today, but they will have to deal with it if they want to or not.

I'm not wholly unsuprised that you would respond in this way, I've seen your mannerisms personally in the community discord, and towards other players. I am willing to even say that I doubt you attempted to read and only wanted to make your word stand out, or else you would have noticed 4 things.

1. While I am stating that the widespread opinion of the community towards Pirates or similar groups is overall poor, I am also listing a large numbers of factors that have played into this.

2. I was attempting to pave a larger road for other occupations and lifestyles that share common grounds with pirates. You can see this when I bring up Social Structures needed by these groups and the opportunities that can come about for that. The Rogue Economy. Fencers, Brokers, Spies.

3. Not once was I directly asking the Devs to 'Fix This' or take express action. But I did ask them to read and to think on this.

4. This was not expressly over PvP or other in-game aspects. It was for mindsets and a call for better recognition of these playstyles within the community, so that we would not hold ourselves back from more opportunities and player variety in the finished game.


But perhaps we're also limited from seeing eye-to-eye because my definition of Piracy or Renegades as a playstyle could be far different from yours, If you can even call yourself one of those.

It is not just combat or upsetting people. It is not testing the rules and seeing how much attention I can garner by being the Public monster.

Its a lifestyle, with its own social and economic needs and methods. Its using my combat in ways that have an affect over player interactions, and not just the individual who I chose to attack with 2 railguns mounted on maneuver thrusters.

I don't see you as a Pirate Quevin. You're far from having that sense of integrity, But your actions have long marred the opinion of other renegade players, and added to the troubles.

 

[kiiyo]

Good writeup, Goose! Though the formatting and funky capitalization made it a little hard to read, once I forced myself to stop skimming like I usually read and actually took the time to estabilish your "variables" in my head, it made a whole bunch of sense. Inspiring, even. Thanks for this!

 

[GamingPidgeon]

Very nicely written, I really do hope that pirates become a thing because then I have more things to shoot at