Update on upcoming features and some recent discussion topics and events.

[blazemonger]

but, still, it has grown huge. over 100,000 people play that game a day. one of the leading mmos on steam.

For starters, RUST is not a MMO, it is a multiplayer survival game. and the only reason it survived as a game is because it has dedicated servers. Most if not all games which have the behaviour you talk about pretty much survive because of that. and there is good reason why the DarksideRP Atlas serves will once again see population well beyond the public servers once their season 5 starts. There are strict rules of engagement on those servers, you can't just go around killing people or you will find yourself banned very quickly.

Now, I am not saying that Starbase should adopt similar rules. What I am saying is that both sides here should tone down and give some acknowledgement to each other's arguments.

Yes, PVP will be an important part of this game and yes, it is and should be. At the same time there need to be boundaries to that and that starts with the players themselves. Just going around shooting anyone serves no purpose, no matter how much you are trying to justify it by fainting that you help sustain the economy. Just like in EVE where the ganker gate camps do not contribute much, if anything to the economy, they are just a nuisance. The big impact comes from the organised and drawn-out wars, the massive fights and the PVP which happens away for the guns and in stations where players manipulate and get wealthy off of the markets directly.

On the other side, I understand that it's not fun if some player decides to shoot you and is successful, but that is part of the deal when you join a game that is a sandbox MMO. I would certainly love to see some sort of reputation system evolve in the game where how you play your character matters and will impact where you can go and what you can do. But in the end, dimissing PVP players as gankers and griefers is a generalization which is simply not true nor fair.

You make your character be a senseless killer who just attacks whatever ends up in front of him? That is fine but you may find yourself unable to enter public areas as you may get targeted there or apprehended as the nuisance and risk to society you are, your character's actions must have consequences. Yes, you can do whatever you like outside the safe zone but be prepared to find you may no longer be welcome in some areas. That is a possible part of the game many who choose to be "pirates" would not want to see though.

 

[J.D.]

For starters, RUST is not a MMO, it is a multiplayer survival game. and the only reason it survived as a game is because it has dedicated servers. Most if not all games which have the behaviour you talk about pretty much survive because of that. and there is good reason why the DarksideRP Atlas serves will once again see population well beyond the public servers once their season 5 starts. There are strict rules of engagement on those servers, you can't just go around killing people or you will find yourself banned very quickly.

Now, I am not saying that Starbase should adopt similar rules. What I am saying is that both sides here should tone down and give some acknowledgement to each other's arguments.

Yes, PVP will be an important part of this game and yes, it is and should be. At the same time there need to be boundaries to that and that starts with the players themselves. Just going around shooting anyone serves no purpose, no matter how much you are trying to justify it by fainting that you help sustain the economy. Just like in EVE where the ganker gate camps do not contribute much, if anything to the economy, they are just a nuisance. The big impact comes from the organised and drawn-out wars, the massive fights and the PVP which happens away for the guns and in stations where players manipulate and get wealthy off of the markets directly.

On the other side, I understand that it's not fun if some player decides to shoot you and is successful, but that is part of the deal when you join a game that is a sandbox MMO. I would certainly love to see some sort of reputation system evolve in the game where how you play your character matters and will impact where you can go and what you can do. But in the end, dimissing PVP players as gankers and griefers is a generalization which is simply not true nor fair.

You make your character be a senseless killer who just attacks whatever ends up in front of him? That is fine but you may find yourself unable to enter public areas as you may get targeted there or apprehended as the nuisance and risk to society you are, your character's actions must have consequences. Yes, you can do whatever you like outside the safe zone but be prepared to find you may no longer be welcome in some areas. That is a possible part of the game many who choose to be "pirates" would not want to see though.

What do you define that is an mmo? 500 people on one server isn’t an MMO? Rust has servers that have 500 on their officials. Those RP servers are few and far between compared to the others. The point I was making is pvp is more popular than pve. They are massively outnumbered by the other servers. I also don’t think you are qualified to judge what an mmo is compared to people who pay their bills to make that call… what you are suggesting also is pvp be only organized. This was a topic early on. The pvp group wants organic pvp. Organized pvp will kill the game, because we will quit. And this game needs numbers for its key mechanics to stay fun, and to work. Again, economy, among others. organized pvp is no fun. Everything in game is worth credits. So technically it’s not “senseless killing.” It’s far more fun that mining runs all day. Salvaging makes it even better. My point still stands.

 

[blazemonger]

what you are suggesting also is pvp be only organized. This was a topic early on. The pvp group wants organic pvp. Organized pvp will kill the game, because we will quit.

First off, I never did suggest PVP to be organised. I have no idea where you get that from. I am observing a trend where "the PVP group" seems to be fixated on getting access to easy targets, preferable unarmed, instead of engaging in PVP with others who can and will put up an actual fight.

Then, are you saying you are speaking on behalf of "the PVP group"? While I kind of doubt that to be the case, who are these people?

Also "Do as we want, or we will quit" is not a great or constructive way to discuss how to make SB the best game it can be. In fact, it is my opinion that it may well be better "the PVP group" did leave for the game as a whole, if that is how you (as "the PVP group") think as it implies you have no intention to be part of the game, you want the game to conform to your preferred style of gameplay. I think that is a very shallow and destructive position to take. It is also why "the PVP group" tends to jump from game to game, try and make it work the way you want using the same hollow arguments and threats to then jump to the next game as you do not get what you want. Ever consider that maybe "the PVP group" not being able to find the game you want is because your demands and attitude are unrealistic, if not unreasonable and unsustainable for a developer to cater to on the scale these games are made.

I am pretty sure you do not speak for PVP players as a whole, your "PVP group" seems mostly an isolationist group of fanatics with a very singular focus and total disregard for anything else to me.

 

[STEALTH]

Organic PvP > Organized PvP

 

[J.D.]

No…. I am willing to fight anything. Ship with guns, or no guns. I don’t care. I like this play style, and I find it more fun than taking a mining ship and flying back and forth from belt and back. Boring. Also the development team has already created the foundation of pvp outside the safe zone to have no rules to how you die. Lauri has already addressed this with very very clear information. Now, they may look for ways to keep the line between safe and non safe less ganky, but over all, outside the safe zone is free for all. It’s already that way. The devs made it that way. You cannot control what people do outside the safe zone in any way without having a major impact on the organic nature that is pvp lovers desire… as for me quitting, the whole reason we log on is to play the game to have fun. If we aren’t having fun, we don’t play. If the devs were to put a cap on what you can do outside the safe zone, that wouldn’t be fun. I don’t log on to the game to please you. I don’t bow down to you. I know pvp people because I play nothing but pvp games. I talk to pvp people. I know what we like… you guys have a safe zone. Why are you all ignoring this? The safe zone protects you from every type of grief… Now.. as for you attacking me to what kind of person you think I am.. there you are playing white knight. You know what’s really bad about you pretending to be this white knight? You made the worst action of us all. You got mad at a developer when you were in the dual universe crowd, and you doxed him. That is terribly bad, and unacceptable. So, from my point of view, you have no leverage to judge me, or anyone else on their character, or play style. Because your actions were far more egregious in my opinion. To make it worse, you showed no remorse in that thread. You even justified it as if it was well deserved. So, from what I think based on what I read, I think you’ll do it again. The way you come off dude.. I swear. So think what you want to. Your opinion doesn’t count to me. You see me for what you want to see, and not what’s really there.

 

[STEALTH]

Now.. as for you attacking me to what kind of person you think I am.. there you are playing white knight. You know what’s really bad about you pretending to be this white knight? You made the worst action of us all. You got mad at a developer when you were in the dual universe crowd, and you doxed him. That is terribly bad, and unacceptable. So, from my point of view, you have no leverage to judge me, or anyone else on their character, or play style. Because your actions were far more egregious in my opinion. To make it worse, you showed no remorse in that thread. You even justified it as if it was well deserved. So, from what I think based on what I read, I think you’ll do it again. The way you come off dude.. I swear. So think what you want to. Your opinion doesn’t count to me. You see me for what you want to see, and not what’s really there.

Whoa, somebody actually doxxed a DU Dev over the game and then tried to justify it. Then has the nerve to look down their nose at folks that merely like PvP in a....VIDEO GAME? I only stuck with DU for a little bit so wasn't even aware of a Dev being doxxed...yikes.

 

[blazemonger]

Now, they may look for ways to keep the line between safe and non safe less ganky, but over all, outside the safe zone is free for all. It’s already that way. The devs made it that way. You cannot control what people do outside the safe zone in any way without having a major impact on the organic nature that is pvp lovers desire…

I'm not saying you should control what people do outside the safe zone, I am saying that what they choose to do there should have consequences with regards to their access to "safe" areas. A known pirate may be free to do as he pleases on open seas, as he enters territorial waters it is not unlikely he may find himself at the wrong side of a barrel and made to pay for his actions against the territories citizens.

Also, please define how you see "organic PVP" as I've seen som any different situations be called "organic PVP".. It seems to be one fo those terms that really means nothing and is used to have a fancy phrase to emphasize one's personal preference more than anything else.

 

[J.D.]

I’m not sure how they would achieve that with it being a safe zone. Kinda sounds a little silly, in my opinion, but I don’t stand against the idea.. organic means natural. Organic pvp. Natural pvp. Meaning, it wasn’t scheduled… big faction fights are great. I’d like the see them, and be a part one day. Those should not be scheduled. And they won’t, the only thing that is scheduled is the timer to which the ship gets there, which is fair to allow defender to be ready. No problem. Good idea. I wouldn’t have it any other way, personally. My main concerns for what you and some others seem to be attacking is the small roaming gangs. The ones who can’t afford to seige, but want pvp content. They have managed the whole idea great with the safe zone vs non safe zone. Lauri literally said the safe zone is for new players, and those who do not wish to engage in pvp. That’s literally why they created a safe zone according to lauri, as well as civilian capital ships. But, yea, outside the safe zone should not be governed at all. I’m not sure how that idea of a mechanic would go with the game, and the crowd in general. It could be abused just by exiling a player that people don’t like without a civil reason to do so. That would definitely happen. But, if there was a way to manage it fairly, I guess it might be cool. I’m not sure I have an opinion on it unless the devs made it a real thing, and explained the details.

 

[STEALTH]

I'm not saying you should control what people do outside the safe zone, I am saying that what they choose to do there should have consequences with regards to their access to "safe" areas. A known pirate may be free to do as he pleases on open seas, as he enters territorial waters it is not unlikely he may find himself at the wrong side of a barrel and made to pay for his actions against the territories citizens.

Also, please define how you see "organic PVP" as I've seen som any different situations be called "organic PVP".. It seems to be one fo those terms that really means nothing and is used to have a fancy phrase to emphasize one's personal preference more than anything else.

Definitely is not a term that means nothing and is rather easy to defy. Organic PvP is simply PvP that occurs naturally in a game and not something that occurred due to an event created and scheduled by a Dev or even Player. Rather easy to differ between the two. Just look at CA Videos where FB CREATED the PvP incidents via the "Convoy Events" or "Free For All" Events. Those are not organic incidents. Another would be like Rexilla and his old Star Citizen PvP videos where he organized the time, place, folks, rules, etc. for the big fights that would go down.

Compare that to the Elysium Ship Graveyard site on the Moon Surface where PvP happened. All of that was organic, nobody was responsible for planning the incidents, there was no schedule, nothing organized by a person (player or Dev). Folks just randomly went there and randomly ran into other people and a fight ensued. PvPers prefer the organic PvP over organized PvP!

 

[STEALTH]

I’m not sure how they would achieve that with it being a safe zone. Kinda sounds a little silly, in my opinion, but I don’t stand against the idea.. organic means natural. Organic pvp. Natural pvp. Meaning, it wasn’t scheduled… big faction fights are great. I’d like the see them, and be a part one day. Those should not be scheduled. And they won’t, the only thing that is scheduled is the timer to which the ship gets there, which is fair to allow defender to be ready. No problem. Good idea. I wouldn’t have it any other way, personally. My main concerns for what you and some others seem to be attacking is the small roaming gangs. The ones who can’t afford to seige, but want pvp content. They have managed the whole idea great with the safe zone vs non safe zone. Lauri literally said the safe zone is for new players, and those who do not wish to engage in pvp. That’s literally why they created a safe zone according to lauri, as well as civilian capital ships. But, yea, outside the safe zone should not be governed at all. I’m not sure how that idea of a mechanic would go with the game, and the crowd in general. It could be abused just by exiling a player that people don’t like without a civil reason to do so. That would definitely happen. But, if there was a way to manage it fairly, I guess it might be cool. I’m not sure I have an opinion on it unless the devs made it a real thing, and explained the details.

Yep..rather sad that even with the effort FB has made to cater to "I don't want to fight" folks somehow still manage to complain! Guess it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Think at the end of the day some just won't be satisfied unless the game becomes an outright COOP experience where they remain 100% untouchable no matter what they do despite such being the case in the rather massive SZ provided to them.

 

[Nines]

This is such a weird thread.

Pvper- I want changes to force players out of the safe zone.
Non-pvper- I don't want to engage in pvp.
Pvper- Stay in the safe zone!

Yep..rather sad that even with the effort FB has made to cater to "I don't want to fight" folks somehow still manage to complain! Guess it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Think at the end of the day some just won't be satisfied unless the game becomes an outright COOP experience where they remain 100% untouchable no matter what they do despite such being the case in the rather massive SZ provided to them.

The original post talks about improving things for pvp and one of the first responses was "Wow, doubling down on seperating the player base. This won't fix pvp."

 

[STEALTH]

This is such a weird thread.

Pvper- I want changes to force players out of the safe zone.
Non-pvper- I don't want to engage in pvp.
Pvper- Stay in the safe zone!



The original post talks about improving things for pvp and one of the first responses was "Wow, doubling down on seperating the player base. This won't fix pvp."

That's great, my comment wasn't referring to the OP but the community from Reddit, here, and Discord in general. And I do stand by having the mentality that if a person doesn't want to PvP then they should stay in the SZ created for them. As far as forcing folks out of the SZ; I can't speak for whoever supposedly said that but I have no issues with folks staying in the SZ if that's what they want to do. Can't say such an idea is even the general consensus among PvPers.

 

[J.D.]

I feel the same. I have no problem with the safe zone, and people in it. If they don’t want pvp they can stay inside. I also don’t want to force them out. They’ll come out on their own either because the economy in that area drops due lack of money exchanging hands, or because they grow bored… this game has a hell of a learning curve. So we gota have that safe zone for new people as well.

 

[Nines]

I'm glad to hear that. I hope more of the pvp community shares this sentiment.

 

[Cavilier210]

I think incentives to stay in the SZ should be few. Whereas the ones to venture out should be many. Gankers, which is really what PvE people are griping about, depend on the ignorance of those PvE'ers to PvP mechanics and tactics in order to make their attacks. The SZ is tiny compared to the game world, and good design and logistical tactics would definitely aid you in avoiding being ganked, and teaming up with actual PvP players who can help you. I think the main problem is the solo PvE player that wants to do absolutely nothing with anyone else and be catered to. Its an MMO my guys. Gonna have to interact.

 

[J.D.]

I think incentives to stay in the SZ should be few. Whereas the ones to venture out should be many. Gankers, which is really what PvE people are griping about, depend on the ignorance of those PvE'ers to PvP mechanics and tactics in order to make their attacks. The SZ is tiny compared to the game world, and good design and logistical tactics would definitely aid you in avoiding being ganked, and teaming up with actual PvP players who can help you. I think the main problem is the solo PvE player that wants to do absolutely nothing with anyone else and be catered to. Its an MMO my guys. Gonna have to interact.

well said.

 

[CalenLoki]

I would certainly love to see some sort of reputation system evolve in the game where how you play your character matters and will impact where you can go and what you can do. But in the end, dimissing PVP players as gankers and griefers is a generalization which is simply not true nor fair.

You make your character be a senseless killer who just attacks whatever ends up in front of him? That is fine but you may find yourself unable to enter public areas as you may get targeted there or apprehended as the nuisance and risk to society you are, your character's actions must have consequences. Yes, you can do whatever you like outside the safe zone but be prepared to find you may no longer be welcome in some areas. That is a possible part of the game many who choose to be "pirates" would not want to see though.

You're raising a good point - social consequences of engaging in PvP.

IMO game should help identifying other players. So your actions, both friendly and hostile, can be recognised and remembered, and people that meet you know what you've done.

Something as simple as "point at ship/player and press X to see name tag" and "tag people and entire groups as hostile/friendly to change their name tag colour" or even plain kill-feed telling you who killed you.

I know that a lot of RPers will cry that it breaks immersion of them being unseen assassins. But there's no consequences to being duchebag without identification. You want miners to have consequences for flying into the wild space, accept yours for shooting them.

 

[J.D.]

You're raising a good point - social consequences of engaging in PvP.

IMO game should help identifying other players. So your actions, both friendly and hostile, can be recognised and remembered, and people that meet you know what you've done.

Something as simple as "point at ship/player and press X to see name tag" and "tag people and entire groups as hostile/friendly to change their name tag colour" or even plain kill-feed telling you who killed you.

I know that a lot of RPers will cry that it breaks immersion of them being unseen assassins. But there's no consequences to being duchebag without identification. You want miners to have consequences for flying into the wild space, accept yours for shooting them.

i think there is this reputation like thing on the character menu, might actually become a thing.

 

[DankHoneyOil]

What do you define that is an mmo? 500 people on one server isn’t an MMO? Rust has servers that have 500 on their officials. Those RP servers are few and far between compared to the others. The point I was making is pvp is more popular than pve. They are massively outnumbered by the other servers. I also don’t think you are qualified to judge what an mmo is compared to people who pay their bills to make that call… what you are suggesting also is pvp be only organized. This was a topic early on. The pvp group wants organic pvp. Organized pvp will kill the game, because we will quit. And this game needs numbers for its key mechanics to stay fun, and to work. Again, economy, among others. organized pvp is no fun. Everything in game is worth credits. So technically it’s not “senseless killing.” It’s far more fun that mining runs all day. Salvaging makes it even better. My point still stands.

RUST is defined by it's creators as a Survival game, it is not an MMO. I have around 8k hours in RUST and have been playing it since just after it left browsers. RUST has had a very very rocky lifetime population wise. It almost died several times during EA and that had nothing to do with pvp or not pvp, it was because they had issues deciding on a progression system. Also in some post I read a while back Gary mentions that listening to Reddit almost killed the game.

RUST didn't really get a good population until it's full release. Even then there are thousands of PVE only or Roleplay servers. So you are using this as an example poorly imo.

Look at any successful pve or pvpve sandbox MMO you will see the numbers are easily 10x or more higher then any pvp sandbox mmo you can mention. So you are just being delusional there.

I also consider myself a pvp player(but also SSC addict), just not the type who wants to grief unarmed targets. I want to fight other people who want to fight.

You seem to speak as you are speaking for some big phantom group that nobody else knows about, but you are literally the only one saying the crap I see you saying.

 

[J.D.]

RUST is defined by it's creators as a Survival game, it is not an MMO. I have around 8k hours in RUST and have been playing it since just after it left browsers. RUST has had a very very rocky lifetime population wise. It almost died several times during EA and that had nothing to do with pvp or not pvp, it was because they had issues deciding on a progression system. Also in some post I read a while back Gary mentions that listening to Reddit almost killed the game.

RUST didn't really get a good population until it's full release. Even then there are thousands of PVE only or Roleplay servers. So you are using this as an example poorly imo.

Look at any successful pve or pvpve sandbox MMO you will see the numbers are easily 10x or more higher then any pvp sandbox mmo you can mention. So you are just being delusional there.

I also consider myself a pvp player(but also SSC addict), just not the type who wants to grief unarmed targets. I want to fight other people who want to fight.

You seem to speak as you are speaking for some big phantom group that nobody else knows about, but you are literally the only one saying the crap I see you saying.

ok first off, you can back off with the way you just approached me and try again. I have a hard time responding sensibly because I’m a little pissed how you went about that. So try again, And I’ll give a response based on what I see, and know to be true. I will say that you are wrong about rust not being an “mmo.” I don’t care how many hours you have in game. Steam literally categorized that game as an mmo. People who are paid to make those decisions placed that title on there. Even if it didn’t have that title, that detail alone doesn’t really impact the point I’m making on the popularity of pvp. Also about me being “delusional” and being the only one “who talks about this crap” lol you are ranked “endo” on this forum, that means you might not have been around long, unless you haven’t posted much, and felt compelled because you seem triggered by my post. Surf the forum a little more. Try again.