What do you guys think about the playerbase situation? what do you think about the future?

Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
158
#1
The game is still early in development, and of course, we hope for the best to come...
Why do you guys think the playerbase keeps falling lower week by week?
What keeps you from playing more?
How do you feel about the roadmap, and the content that is to come, and the impact on the player base it might have?
 
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Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Messages
425
#2
I think travel time is a good piece, and the lack of functionality of player stations. No real organic PvP mechanisms, and mechanics to enable hunting of enemies beyond visual range.

A lot is just missing and not there. I think it will get better over time, and I think the devs do great work, but I also think they've spread themselves too thin. They're main attraction and selling point was combat, ships, and their damage model. However, much that is needed there is missing, and there's so much space that its not possible to hunt effectively.

We need sensors, badly. Even if those sensors were to change later, we need something asap. Something that works beyond the horizon so to speak.

We need utility in our stations, and the ability to have company shared resources.

We need something for long distance cruises that is faster than 150 m/s to be fair.
 

J.D.

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
158
#4
I think travel time is a good piece, and the lack of functionality of player stations. No real organic PvP mechanisms, and mechanics to enable hunting of enemies beyond visual range.

A lot is just missing and not there. I think it will get better over time, and I think the devs do great work, but I also think they've spread themselves too thin. They're main attraction and selling point was combat, ships, and their damage model. However, much that is needed there is missing, and there's so much space that its not possible to hunt effectively.

We need sensors, badly. Even if those sensors were to change later, we need something asap. Something that works beyond the horizon so to speak.

We need utility in our stations, and the ability to have company shared resources.

We need something for long distance cruises that is faster than 150 m/s to be fair.
I agree.
They started off on a foot that seems confusing compared to what content the game has all over their trailers. Alot of people would look at that, and come to the game with expectations based on what they see in those videos. I do understand that safety for starting out is important. But, i believe after they had that safe zone built, they should have started working on the pvp elements. Ive seen lauri say that he believes the pve crowd will make this game last.. I disagree for several reasons. But, i think thats why they invested so much time into the safe zones with that belief. Maybe hes trying to keep them happy while they work on pvp content. But im thinking there is always going to be discontent when some miner gets blown up while carrying a massive load of ore, then they raise hell about it, and the crowd demands more safety etc. Its always going to be an issue. But, yes, when you break it all down, the most simple thing to me is just to focus on making the game at face value based on its marketing materials. Later, add other stuff. Im starting to see comments on the game outside the forums, and discords on this subject. As its gettting out that the game is not what its like on the videos, its causing alot of damage. Im not a dev though, and im sure they have alot on their plate. they obviously want to succeed, and they have been awesome the whole way regardless if i agree or disagree with what they do. I hope it gets better. There i still time, and i hope to see this game grow good sized playerbase once we see some more updates. I hope to hear some more opinions too.
 
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Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
146
#5
The people who came here expecting, against all given notice, a finished game, are clearing off. Maybe they'll come back if they saw anything that persuaded them to keep watching the game's progress.

The people who came here expecting an alpha, "just to see what it's like", have cleared off, and will probably be back as new features get promoted.

The people who cane here expecting an alpha with a willingness to stay and keep reportin' dem bugs are still here. There's fewer of those.

The peole who came hoping to learn how to build things and break things in the game are probably largely still here too.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
320
#6
im little bummed cause all my fighter ships are stuck at origin with no way to put a fast travel device on them. im sorta taken up a new residency within the moon belt, but unable to get my best ships to my new station. and where im at is quite a busy pvp area, be nice to get my gun ships there.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
38
#7
im little bummed cause all my fighter ships are stuck at origin with no way to put a fast travel device on them. im sorta taken up a new residency within the moon belt, but unable to get my best ships to my new station. and where im at is quite a busy pvp area, be nice to get my gun ships there.
you dont need to move with fast travel core.
You just place some beams for support on those fighters.Have fast travel core in your inventoryy.
Move into the gate.Install fast travel core on fighter.Engage fast travel.During fast travel remove beams and fast travel core.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2021
Messages
4
#9
I feel like there are things to do but players didn't want to figure it out. For example the ship design workshop, using yolo chips (at least the wiki generator script so you can play the game), even simple things like using the jump gate, advancing to plasma thrusters so you don't have to roleplay as the Borg anymore, finding the rare ores without traveling 700km into the origin belt (super secret but requires exploring more than player-made guides echoing each other). Speed leveling research is not straightforward but just build the L-Shape 4-cube ore containers in bulk and vendor them because it's only bastium and vokarium. That eliminates the charodium barrier that everyone complains about, but don't want to use their brane.

Then there is preparing for the updates by staying caught up. So there is no way players who gave up had completed all of their research, or stockpiled any basic materials, let alone even looked at the moon because they couldn't figure out the jump drive. There are things to do but it's just a complicated and detailed game. I'm just taking my time learning all this stuff and personally I think it's an outstanding game with great potential. I haven't even built a station in unsecured space yet, or a scouting ship for the moon to find a good spot, so I still got things I want to do before the update adds more.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
30
#10
I'm waiting for the player base to stabilize before getting my opinion on it.

To be fair I've said this many times in discord, I didn't except most players to play for more then 2 weeks. unless they love the SSC.
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Messages
26
#11
The issues with the current state of SB which concern me are very much public relations concerns. I'm going to be brutally honest here. Please understand it comes from a good place. I joined at the launch of EA in communication with many others who were more excited than i was about SB, who have already moved on. This isn't to say they won't be back. But i'm not hearing good things.

I think what is mostly troubling is what i would describe as early indicators that SB devs are falling into a pattern of decision making that could potentially further disrupt the future appeal of the game. Please keep in mind that i'm simply trying to extrapolate upon these indicators. My concerns can be summed up in 2 or 3 points. I'm not playing much atm, i'm planning to come back and check in on SB. I'll be taking a break here and in game for awhile sadly so i'll just make my opinion and move along.

#1 - Safe Zone placement seems arbitrary and possibly ill conceived when considering that the combat elements in this game can be really fun and very functional right now. Its a shame that this potential is lost to so many at this moment when positive hype in this regard could be wide spread and growing, as opposed to being reduced in scope and shrinking. Feels like wasted opportunity. Could just be my opinion, but the whole "Safe Zone" draws parallels to our RL "Safe Spaces". When i hear about people wanting more of them i feel a bit nauseated given the current state of PVP (a driving factor of appeal for the game). Pampering hurt feelings is not going to improve your customer relations.

#2 - Please correct me if i'm wrong. Did i ever hear about "Ban bounties" being issued to the devs for catching exploiters and cheaters? If so, while it may seem like a wise position to some, i would contend that it is an unhealthy system of motivation. In order to garner trust in those that moderate, those subject to that moderation should understand that full impartiality is at play when applying the "ban hammer". The idea of an incentive (bounty) being applied to impartiality is a very bad idea. It rhymes with an authoritarian mindset of control that is very distasteful. Don't get me wrong. I despise cheaters, but i also very much dislike unfair moderation. If the bounties were just something i over heard, then forgive my misplaced concern on this matter.

#3 - Regarding the bastium banning wave we witnessed, i did attempt to open a dialogue 2 weeks ago with DustyFB in PM, but received no reply. My concerns regarding that issue were ridiculed in these threads and also on disco. Then ignored by moderators here. I was being sincere in all cases. My reasoning for reaching out was for clarification and to help quell misunderstanding on other networks, but also to try and get a feel for who it is that we will be subject to both now and in the future as we participate in this game. This is of paramount concern to me. Might not matter to many of this woke generation.

I'm likely to get some negative response on that last one. :p Oh well.
Anyway. SB has a MASSIVE potential for growth. I truly hope that the devs can strike the correct balance and bring it all in. Thanks for the experience so far and i'll be back to see what happens if i'm still welcome here.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
320
#12
#2 - Please correct me if i'm wrong. Did i ever hear about "Ban bounties" being issued to the devs for catching exploiters and cheaters? If so, while it may seem like a wise position to some, i would contend that it is an unhealthy system of motivation. In order to garner trust in those that moderate, those subject to that moderation should understand that full impartiality is at play when applying the "ban hammer". The idea of an incentive (bounty) being applied to impartiality is a very bad idea. It rhymes with an authoritarian mindset of control that is very distasteful. Don't get me wrong. I despise cheaters, but i also very much dislike unfair moderation. If the bounties were just something i over heard, then forgive my misplaced concern on this matter.

#3 - Regarding the bastium banning wave we witnessed, i did attempt to open a dialogue 2 weeks ago with DustyFB in PM, but received no reply. My concerns regarding that issue were ridiculed in these threads and also on disco. Then ignored by moderators here. I was being sincere in all cases. My reasoning for reaching out was for clarification and to help quell misunderstanding on other networks, but also to try and get a feel for who it is that we will be subject to both now and in the future as we participate in this game. This is of paramount concern to me. Might not matter to many of this woke generation.
it seems like 2/3rds of your post's opinions on what is wrong with SB is they are to hard on cheaters? i wish more games out there were much much harder on cheaters, that is one of the things that kills EA games is a run of exploiters and cheaters. dont believe me research it.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
6
#14
Hey guys.

The points mentioned here are all valid. There is however a large portion of the player base that has quit because of other reasons. Most have left their feedback on steam, but I greatly respect the Frozenbyte developers and believe that Starbase has the tech and the potential to be great, so here it goes.

Many people here try to divide the player base into PvP vs PvE, veteran vs new, etc. I'd argue that most PvE players simply don't play Starbase and most new players aren't new a week later. The major divide is between solo players and groups. The solo players are many. And they have left the building.

Why, though? It's all been said many times, and I believe that Frozenbyte is setting the right priorities here.

Most solo players came here because of three things: building, exploring and shooting things.

1. Building. Yes, they could have simply learned the space ship creator. They didn't bother though, because of time. The time investment is just too big on so many levels, starting with the initial learning curve, the ship build itself, then the repair, then the refinement and reiteration, and so on. People expected something like crossout, or worlds adrift, not all these cables, pipes and bolts. That's why the easy build mode and the repair system are coming, they’re just not there yet. However, one thing: as long as the ships created via easy build mode are inferior to the SSC-ships, regarding functionality as well as looks, people won't stay.

2. Exploring. Two space stations and a city with well-known coordinates are simply not enough, by far. All there is to find, to my knowledge, are asteroids and derelict ships, already stripped from anything of value. Please Frozenbyte, take the SSC. Transform it to a large space station creator, make it a standalone tool and give it to your player base. Much like the island creator of worlds adrift. Let your most talented builders create. Puzzles, mazes, automated defense systems, enigma-like cypher protected doors, you name it. Put some loot in there, on a very large respawn timer and player-specific, so everybody gets something and can't farm it. Then throw the creations that pass your quality gate somewhere far into the belt. PvP hot spots will emerge with time, after some of these stations get found, but players have to have the hope to find something not being camped by armed crews.

3. Shooting things. Most who came here want to PvP and they want to learn. It is impossible as of now, because of two things: the non-existing fighting chance against crews and the cost of death. The simple fact that autocannons are mouse-controlled and ships are a lot clunkier, is a game-killer from a solo pilot point of view. And I don’t believe that the improved mouse controls for ships on the roadmap will alleviate this, if you don’t introduce significant lag to the autocannon aiming.

As a matter of fact, there should be some mechanics that put groups to a significant disadvantage proportional to their size, just like albion is trying to reduce the power of zergs and to support small scale and solo play. Everybody seems to want to find PvP targets easier, but this is a very sharp double edged laser sword capable of killing the rest of the population. I find this post about non-consensual PvP from an albion dev worth reading: https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/72770-Balancing-Non-Consensual-PvP/.

Speaking of which, what we have here is the black zone. Most solo players enjoy the red zone though. Factions are essential. Less because of the social aspects but primary because of the emergence of allies without the need to join groups. Solo players will not follow the usual advice to join a group, they would rather quit before they do it, or will do it much, much later. See worlds adrift, last oasis, dual universe and all the other “sandbox open world pvp” games for reference, regardless of genre. Player driven alliances generally only work temporary, in settings like rust – but not on persistent worlds. Because of this: https://www.raphkoster.com/2017/09/22/31098/. I personally find this analysis of the last oasis creators spot-on: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/903950/view/2927865187897634697. Another enlightening read as to why forced grouping doesn’t work is this theory about the trust spectrum: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/the-trust-spectrum.

Regarding cost of death: how is one supposed to learn to shoot things, if every encounter of one minute shooting requires hours of grind for a new ship and travel time? I don’t know the solution to this, maybe an insurance system like eve and elite dangerous, maybe not.

There is much more one can say about this topic, but it’s all been said and written, many times.

TL;DR: goto 1.

Peace. Out.
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
2
#15
The game needs significant address if they want to stabilize their player count, they are losing around 500 players per week, but may soon hitting bottom, I cant imagine the game dropping much below 1500 average player count.
Starbase Player Stats
The issues are numerous but the most egregious is that wealth and play time are unstable and can be eroded by bugs and the Community managers will not recompense players. See: This Reddit Post
Other issues are the lack of content for the average player. The average player will reach average proficiency with the game around the 200h level after that the game becomes a mining simulator.
Distances are too great
Ships are too difficult to fix
The game is viciously unforgiving regarding piloting
There are basic functionalities missing such as nav points and a means to find other players.

The thing I really dislike most about the sci-fi genre is that its being surpassed by modern technology. AI is an integral part of the modern world yet our Sci-Fi games cant keep up. We are essentially reduced to using only the Mk 1 eyeball to find anything, rocks, ships,stations, navigation, problems with our ship. For a sci-fi game it appears we are stuck in the 1990's.

Until the genre starts to explore truely cutting edge technology and imagining the possible I think Starbase just becomes Mincraft in space 2.0.
Its currently beating Rec Room a 2016 title by 6 players while losing to Beasts of Bermuda (2018) by 18 players; looking only at Early Access titles to be fair
... Starbase is in a sad state.
Everyother sandbox sci-fi game is crushing this title FFS Space Engineers has 4500players and its ancient.
 
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J.D.

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
158
#16
The issues with the current state of SB which concern me are very much public relations concerns. I'm going to be brutally honest here. Please understand it comes from a good place. I joined at the launch of EA in communication with many others who were more excited than i was about SB, who have already moved on. This isn't to say they won't be back. But i'm not hearing good things.

I think what is mostly troubling is what i would describe as early indicators that SB devs are falling into a pattern of decision making that could potentially further disrupt the future appeal of the game. Please keep in mind that i'm simply trying to extrapolate upon these indicators. My concerns can be summed up in 2 or 3 points. I'm not playing much atm, i'm planning to come back and check in on SB. I'll be taking a break here and in game for awhile sadly so i'll just make my opinion and move along.

#1 - Safe Zone placement seems arbitrary and possibly ill conceived when considering that the combat elements in this game can be really fun and very functional right now. Its a shame that this potential is lost to so many at this moment when positive hype in this regard could be wide spread and growing, as opposed to being reduced in scope and shrinking. Feels like wasted opportunity. Could just be my opinion, but the whole "Safe Zone" draws parallels to our RL "Safe Spaces". When i hear about people wanting more of them i feel a bit nauseated given the current state of PVP (a driving factor of appeal for the game). Pampering hurt feelings is not going to improve your customer relations.

#2 - Please correct me if i'm wrong. Did i ever hear about "Ban bounties" being issued to the devs for catching exploiters and cheaters? If so, while it may seem like a wise position to some, i would contend that it is an unhealthy system of motivation. In order to garner trust in those that moderate, those subject to that moderation should understand that full impartiality is at play when applying the "ban hammer". The idea of an incentive (bounty) being applied to impartiality is a very bad idea. It rhymes with an authoritarian mindset of control that is very distasteful. Don't get me wrong. I despise cheaters, but i also very much dislike unfair moderation. If the bounties were just something i over heard, then forgive my misplaced concern on this matter.

#3 - Regarding the bastium banning wave we witnessed, i did attempt to open a dialogue 2 weeks ago with DustyFB in PM, but received no reply. My concerns regarding that issue were ridiculed in these threads and also on disco. Then ignored by moderators here. I was being sincere in all cases. My reasoning for reaching out was for clarification and to help quell misunderstanding on other networks, but also to try and get a feel for who it is that we will be subject to both now and in the future as we participate in this game. This is of paramount concern to me. Might not matter to many of this woke generation.

I'm likely to get some negative response on that last one. :p Oh well.
Anyway. SB has a MASSIVE potential for growth. I truly hope that the devs can strike the correct balance and bring it all in. Thanks for the experience so far and i'll be back to see what happens if i'm still welcome here.
I totally agree with point 1. I too missed the point, on your next two. lol im trying to understand lol. I know for a fact you arent condoning cheating, of course. I hate the whole hacking, and cheating thing as well.. And yes, you are correct on the bounties for cheaters. i saw that too. and man, trying to deal with the "woke" mentalities, i feel you. lol
 

Vanidar

Well-known endo
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
63
#17
I totally agree with point 1. I too missed the point, on your next two. lol im trying to understand lol. I know for a fact you arent condoning cheating, of course. I hate the whole hacking, and cheating thing as well.. And yes, you are correct on the bounties for cheaters. i saw that too. and man, trying to deal with the "woke" mentalities, i feel you. lol
I wholeheartedly agree with @Bracaster on his first point. There seems to be a steady and conscious effort to disallow any situation that could be perceived as "griefing" at any point in the game, even if that kills opportunity for organic pvp. FB themselves have stated they really want to protect and coddle Origin specifically and I very much understand that, but I don't get why they seem to want to continue to expand this further and further out (looking at you, moon gate and graveyard). There should be a point where a line is drawn where devs hand-hold less and players have more freedom to take over responsibility for keeping themselves safe. At the moment, it feels like I'm living with very concerned helicopter developers. I was under the impression we'd get a spot that'd feel more wild-west, but I'm now expecting it to be more of the same with new backdrops draped in a new very ample safezone and a few different types of ore.

His second and third points were more about concerns of promoting impartial enforcement of the rules and also lack of clear rules as they seem to evolve. Publicly offering rewards to people to turn in other people promotes a general feeling of distrust in the whole disciplinary process. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure if this was in fact happening or not, same as OP. And I can agree the rules can be really unclear and I've heard it's difficult to get clarification. Compounding this, when you bring it up, you're generally met with rhetoric similar to "WEL U MUST BE A CHEATER IF U HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, I SEE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT IF THOS CHEETERS GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED LOL", thus the woke analogy he made where the collective will utterly dismember you before applying critical thinking if you dare speak up.

As for as the quickly dying playerbase, I don't think it's a surprise all we see on Reddit are posts of people's ship designs and YOLOL creations of Battleship and no drama or discussions about some pvp that happened last night. The risk-keen and the "pvp crowd" don't log on anymore. This is a ship-demo game currently, and with no real economy or environment that supports a sensical risk/reward function, we have endless supply and no reason to fight. Very few people want to *only* design or *only* mine. Most people that are attracted to games like this enjoy either PvP directly and being a part of a narrative, a war, whatever, or even supporting that from a non-combat side. I think some people may show back up over time, but unless SB gets their hooks in them, they'll be checking out all the competition.
 
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Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
320
#18
im show you guys a quote, i dont like cheaters and exploiters and i feel no remorse for them(they knew what they were doing), and to be honest once you been busted you lost any if there was any legal action due to the terms of service we all agree to in the game, in fact some companies can actually take legal action against said person, doesn't happen very often but can. having said that, my distaste doesn't come from the fact i lost to a cheater but more on the lines of this,

"Many gamers adopt a video game as early as possible. Audiences often pre-order titles to start playing on release day and get a leg up on the competition. And yes, this includes cheaters. Sometimes, hackers are so early to the party they ruin the experience for others before a game launches." - AARON GREENBAUM
^that is why i have a distaste for cheaters, so what i lost a match because of one, there wont be one everytime i play, but if there is enough people getting done this way, that will drive the game down even deeper and labeled a cheaters paradise.

as for how the deal with these situations on how they dealt with them, well this is a private company, putting all their own money up for the first 5 years of development before it went EA. this is a business, they are doing this as a company to make money. they have 100s of staff they have to pay wages for, no body is making this game for free, they have tens of thousands of dollars in month to month upkeep. so i guess what im saying is, if you dont like the way the run their company and spend their own money on developing games, and believe you can do better, then i say go fund the few million you need to get started to even begin a project like this, then when they cheaters and exploiters show up to throw a wrench in your hardwork and sacrafice then you can decide on how to deal with them. until then we all signed the same terms of service.

EDIT: as for "wokeness", listen if i invested millions of dollars in a product with my small private company, and you have people exploiting or abusing my product, be lucky if a ban is all you get, when were talking about reputation of a company and millions of dollars on the line, id have your ass prosecuted with the quickness if that was an option, never mess with the way a man puts food on his table. cause "wokeness" to me is when strangers tell people what they can and can't do with their own property, that they themselves built with out the help of those demanding what they do with it.
 
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Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
38
#20
im show you guys a quote, i dont like cheaters and exploiters and i feel no remorse for them(they knew what they were doing), and to be honest once you been busted you lost any if there was any legal action due to the terms of service we all agree to in the game, in fact some companies can actually take legal action against said person, doesn't happen very often but can. having said that, my distaste doesn't come from the fact i lost to a cheater but more on the lines of this,

"Many gamers adopt a video game as early as possible. Audiences often pre-order titles to start playing on release day and get a leg up on the competition. And yes, this includes cheaters. Sometimes, hackers are so early to the party they ruin the experience for others before a game launches." - AARON GREENBAUM
^that is why i have a distaste for cheaters, so what i lost a match because of one, there wont be one everytime i play, but if there is enough people getting done this way, that will drive the game down even deeper and labeled a cheaters paradise.

as for how the deal with these situations on how they dealt with them, well this is a private company, putting all their own money up for the first 5 years of development before it went EA. this is a business, they are doing this as a company to make money. they have 100s of staff they have to pay wages for, no body is making this game for free, they have tens of thousands of dollars in month to month upkeep. so i guess what im saying is, if you dont like the way the run their company and spend their own money on developing games, and believe you can do better, then i say go fund the few million you need to get started to even begin a project like this, then when they cheaters and exploiters show up to throw a wrench in your hardwork and sacrafice then you can decide on how to deal with them. until then we all signed the same terms of service.

EDIT: as for "wokeness", listen if i invested millions of dollars in a product with my small private company, and you have people exploiting or abusing my product, be lucky if a ban is all you get, when were talking about reputation of a company and millions of dollars on the line, id have your ass prosecuted with the quickness if that was an option, never mess with the way a man puts food on his table. cause "wokeness" to me is when strangers tell people what they can and can't do with their own property, that they themselves built with out the help of those demanding what they do with it.
It is ABSOLUTELY customers place to pressure company to not adhere to wokeness.It affects product we are buying.Also It got into corporations by external pressure of vocal group of nuts, need counterpressure to let them know its not everyone that wants this crap.
 
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