What do you guys think about the playerbase situation? what do you think about the future?

[Bracaster]

im show you guys a quote, i dont like cheaters and exploiters and i feel no remorse for them(they knew what they were doing), and to be honest once you been busted you lost any if there was any legal action due to the terms of service we all agree to in the game, in fact some companies can actually take legal action against said person, doesn't happen very often but can. having said that, my distaste doesn't come from the fact i lost to a cheater but more on the lines of this,

"Many gamers adopt a video game as early as possible. Audiences often pre-order titles to start playing on release day and get a leg up on the competition. And yes, this includes cheaters. Sometimes, hackers are so early to the party they ruin the experience for others before a game launches." - AARON GREENBAUM
^that is why i have a distaste for cheaters, so what i lost a match because of one, there wont be one everytime i play, but if there is enough people getting done this way, that will drive the game down even deeper and labeled a cheaters paradise.

as for how the deal with these situations on how they dealt with them, well this is a private company, putting all their own money up for the first 5 years of development before it went EA. this is a business, they are doing this as a company to make money. they have 100s of staff they have to pay wages for, no body is making this game for free, they have tens of thousands of dollars in month to month upkeep. so i guess what im saying is, if you dont like the way the run their company and spend their own money on developing games, and believe you can do better, then i say go fund the few million you need to get started to even begin a project like this, then when they cheaters and exploiters show up to throw a wrench in your hardwork and sacrafice then you can decide on how to deal with them. until then we all signed the same terms of service.

EDIT: as for "wokeness", listen if i invested millions of dollars in a product with my small private company, and you have people exploiting or abusing my product, be lucky if a ban is all you get, when were talking about reputation of a company and millions of dollars on the line, id have your ass prosecuted with the quickness if that was an option, never mess with the way a man puts food on his table. cause "wokeness" to me is when strangers tell people what they can and can't do with their own property, that they themselves built with out the help of those demanding what they do with it.

Venom, why are you producing a rant on the negative impact of cheaters? I totally agree that cheaters must not be allowed to propagate or persist. You have it in your head (repeatedly in response to my points on this subject both here and other threads) that i am trying to endorse support for cheaters. I AM NOT! I was raising this point because of the negative impact that ban waves can have on the early release point of the game. As well as addressing the potential for lasting damage that unfair enforcement policies can make on the desire to participate in said game.

I'm trying to make my departure here. @VENOM, you are making an assessment much in the same way that i am making an assessment. I'm simply asking for some clarification so that i can have more information available to me to make my mine. I had been, right up to the time of the ban wave, been promoting and planning on continuing a series of Starbase youtube videos. My intent had been to dedicate a substantial amount of time doing so for the considerable future. I played solo, i never exploited or cheated or was banned. However, i've never felt so much indited for said behavior for simply asking questions in this community. It really upsets me, when i'm doing my best to provide insight to help abate the potential loss of sales and subscriber-ship for this game.

I spent 2 weeks in the SSB designing and making a ship that i'd planned to release for free with a series of videos detailing the process of making it. I wanted some reinforcement that i was jumping on board with a healthy understanding of who it is that is managing public relations. I still have no clue, all i know is Starbase has a poor reputation on Twitch already. I have some ideas why. But when ever i try to learn more from people who actually know, i'm accused of either being a cheater or in league with people who want to ruin this game. It really pisses me off tbh. Has a lot to do with why i'm not excited to be here anymore.

 

[J.D.]

im show you guys a quote, i dont like cheaters and exploiters and i feel no remorse for them(they knew what they were doing), and to be honest once you been busted you lost any if there was any legal action due to the terms of service we all agree to in the game, in fact some companies can actually take legal action against said person, doesn't happen very often but can. having said that, my distaste doesn't come from the fact i lost to a cheater but more on the lines of this,

"Many gamers adopt a video game as early as possible. Audiences often pre-order titles to start playing on release day and get a leg up on the competition. And yes, this includes cheaters. Sometimes, hackers are so early to the party they ruin the experience for others before a game launches." - AARON GREENBAUM
^that is why i have a distaste for cheaters, so what i lost a match because of one, there wont be one everytime i play, but if there is enough people getting done this way, that will drive the game down even deeper and labeled a cheaters paradise.

as for how the deal with these situations on how they dealt with them, well this is a private company, putting all their own money up for the first 5 years of development before it went EA. this is a business, they are doing this as a company to make money. they have 100s of staff they have to pay wages for, no body is making this game for free, they have tens of thousands of dollars in month to month upkeep. so i guess what im saying is, if you dont like the way the run their company and spend their own money on developing games, and believe you can do better, then i say go fund the few million you need to get started to even begin a project like this, then when they cheaters and exploiters show up to throw a wrench in your hardwork and sacrafice then you can decide on how to deal with them. until then we all signed the same terms of service.

EDIT: as for "wokeness", listen if i invested millions of dollars in a product with my small private company, and you have people exploiting or abusing my product, be lucky if a ban is all you get, when were talking about reputation of a company and millions of dollars on the line, id have your ass prosecuted with the quickness if that was an option, never mess with the way a man puts food on his table. cause "wokeness" to me is when strangers tell people what they can and can't do with their own property, that they themselves built with out the help of those demanding what they do with it.

I don’t think anyone here is condoning cheating. You spoke as if there are people here who don’t mind cheaters. Everyone in this thread wants cheaters gone. You Totally misunderstood.

 

[J.D.]

Man there is so much drama in this community as a whole. I’m trying to be conscious about what I say now so that I don’t make it worse. I think it would be best if Lauri just came out and bluntly said how the game will be, to hit on all these controversial subjects, and tell people exactly how it will be. Something like “I see you guys are fighting about this, well, it’s going to be this way, so now you know, and I don’t plan to change it. You are welcome to leave if you don’t like it.” That way, we will all know, and then we can attract the right crowd, and the others can move on. If they try to please everyone, the game is just going to suck for everyone.

 

[LauriFB]

There's no ban rewards, there is a reward program to tell us about exploits. I don't also know what does "bastium ban wave" mean, but it definitely does not decribe anything even remotely accurately. Please, stop listening to the cheaters and their made up stuff.

As for the game itself, I think we just need to show the features (as playable in-game, ie. finished) in order to communicate them better.

 

[Vanidar]

@Venombrew, everyone agrees with you that cheaters are bad and should be punished objectively and strictly.

Man there is so much drama in this community as a whole. I’m trying to be conscious about what I say now so that I don’t make it worse. I think it would be best if Lauri just came out and bluntly said how the game will be, to hit on all these controversial subjects, and tell people exactly how it will be. Something like “I see you guys are fighting about this, well, it’s going to be this way, so now you know, and I don’t plan to change it. You are welcome to leave if you don’t like it.” That way, we will all know, and then we can attract the right crowd, and the others can move on. If they try to please everyone, the game is just going to suck for everyone.

The problem is that everyone wants Lauri, or FB, to give input and projections like this on every subject, and then again on the same subject after some theorycrafting has been applied to it a few days later. It is an impossible task. I think all of us would enjoy 5 minutes of the dev teams' time so we can know whether or not to just move on without the muck and headache of some of these forum discussions, so I get your point. I will say that so far, while I've been disappointed with a lot that's been said (or neatly sidestepped), I can say they've been engaging candidly much more than I'd expect and that's admirable.

I'll check back in more later when small scale pvp is more realistic outside of sieges and risk/reward is in a better place.

 

[Cavilier210]

Bounties on rule breakers is great idea. Not fir hackers and such, but people who gain a negative rep.

 

[Spanker]

This place is for engineers, not customers haha

 

[Bracaster]

There's no ban rewards, there is a reward program to tell us about exploits.

So there are no ban rewards, just a program whereby people can report on people who exploit for a reward, who are then banned. Sounds very much like the exact same thing i described to be honest. edit - i realize that i'm making an assumption on this point that this could possibly be the case.

I don't also know what does "bastium ban wave" mean, but it definitely does not decribe anything even remotely accurately. Please, stop listening to the cheaters and their made up stuff.

Relating to the issue of a incorrect value for bastium at the ore vendor (a value set by SB) that was being taken advantage of by your patrons (2 weeks ago), many of whom received bans. We call those people "cheaters" and they were banned and left the game. Regardless of how anyone feels on this matter, i believe this is what happened. If this is complete BS, please tell me and i'll drop it all together. Part of my concern on the matter comes anecdotally from my own observations.

Please know. I'm not listening to cheaters. I'm all alone. I'm not talking to anybody but you guys.

 

[Cavilier210]

So there are no ban rewards, just a program whereby people can report on people who exploit for a reward, who are then banned. Sounds very much like the exact same thing i described to be honest.

Getting banned is not easy to do. So far those who have been banned have utilized exploits to harm the games economy, and the enjoyment of the game for others. The best part is that those who were banned for using these exploits told the world themselves. Like Rambo.

Exploit reporting is no different than reporting bugs. Exploits are only different in how they can be used by one player to harm another.

 

[Bracaster]

I hear ya Cavilier210. I like the idea of exploit reporting in that respect. If we are simply reporting on issues ourselves and not directing them at others we suspect.

edit - i promise this will be last i mention it, particularly because i will not be here anymore. I tried my best to provide perspective here, but it makes no sense to keep trying. Bless you all.

 

[pipvac]

Just my pennies worth...

Me: I was lucky enough to play the closed Alpha as well as the current version on Steam.

In no particular order....

• Bans - I totally support the current FB strategy on enforcing current terms, and sincerely hope this continues with the same vigor now and into the future;
• Easy Build - the decision to make EB a critical path in the opening tutorial of the game, coming from a completely untested (on a public server) position was catastrophic in terms of first impressions, and the legacy impact of that continues to this day despite improvements;
• Playability - mining and ship building are the two key play choices right now, and little to nothing else. PVP has direction, and the roadmap will provide reasons and resources to fight over. For now its fragmented and sporadic. I'm not a pvp fan, but I know plenty who are, and this needs desperate attention. PVPrs will be the ones who will buy my ores and ships designs, so the more ships that get popped the better. Plus they will make mining more thrilling with proper attack and counter tactics available hopefully.
• Travel time - the current 150m/s ish speed limit is perfectly fine for 'sub light' travel. I recommend that some form of fast - long distance travel - where ship function is extremely limited during, is deperately needed.

I have a long list more, but I doubt many will read it, so I will stick to a shortened list of four for now. I'm off to go grab some roids. TTFN.

 

[Venombrew]

Plus they will make mining more thrilling with proper attack and counter tactics available hopefully.

i do believe it was Lauri who said something about how radiation signatures will be less effective on miners to make things more fair. I guess their radiation trails will be little to none while they are working, it take me a minute to find that quote since Lauri talks quite a bit about the game, so there are a lot of posts to go through to find that quote. But its being done so that miners with no real weaponry won't be handicapped by this, but rather able to see other peoples radiation signatures so they can at least avoid or hide.

 

[Vanidar]

i do believe it was Lauri who said something about how radiation signatures will be less effective on miners to make things more fair. I guess their radiation trails will be little to none while they are working, it take me a minute to find that quote since Lauri talks quite a bit about the game, so there are a lot of posts to go through to find that quote. But its being done so that miners with no real weaponry won't be handicapped by this, but rather able to see other peoples radiation signatures so they can at least avoid or hide.

I believe it was that mining equipment itself, i.e. lasers, won't produce large signatures. So, the signatures from the generator and thrusters and whatever else is still just the same as any other ship. What makes it "fair" is that people in miners can also use the system to detect incoming hostile ships so that they can evade or turn off their generators, etc.

 

[le_souriceau]

Population stability in such games (relativly niche ones) seriously tied to health of PvP-oriented organizations, because they keep people together and, most importantly -- active, making them log-in regulary for activities, stay long hours.

For them to be healthy, there is need for social tools and meaninful competitive goals, higher stakes -- better.

So, station sieges is best bet for recovery. If they not botched in some grieferophobic way, indeed.

 

[pipvac]

Population stability in such games (relativly niche ones) seriously tied to health of PvP-oriented organizations, because they keep people together and, most importantly -- active, making them log-in regulary for activities, stay long hours.

For them to be healthy, there is need for social tools and meaninful competitive goals, higher stakes -- better.

So, station sieges is best bet for recovery. If they not botched in some grieferophobic way, indeed.

I do agree with this statement. But I would add that industrialists and builders form similar long term relationships. There are many who prefer to build, and develop factory systems which feed an economy. My friends and I are a case in point.

As with most things in life a balance needs to be struck between those who wish to build and those who wish to blow things up. You need both sets of people to create the heat/friction/cycle within the game. I'm not an avid pvp'r myself, but it's pvp'rs who will buy the stuff I build when theirs gets blown up. Plus, I can sit in a asteroid field an mine afk, but thats dull. What if I am sitting in a belt mining and have to watch and manage defensive systems and counter measures, playing cat and mouse with pvp'rs. Surely thats more interesting? Give the fighters the tools to fight, give the builders the tools to defend. Builder's are not sheep to the wolves, it should be play and counter play.

That cycle and balance will keep people for the long term, ensure 'fairness', provide points of conflict, and strategic options to play with.

The current state is you are either the hunter or the hunted. Grey areas create interest and opportunity.

 

[le_souriceau]

But I would add that industrialists and builders form similar long term relationships. There are many who prefer to build, and develop factory systems which feed an economy. My friends and I are a case in point.

Yes. Yet it goes tricky quick.

Because it can go 2 fundamentaly different roads:

1) If industry/trade guy integrated in "big game", like bankrolling some war or profiteering from it (or both), managing assets in crisis enviroment, tries to remove competition by someones hands -- its totaly good, cool. Its not even PvE player anymore, because he plays against others (just not by guns), contributing to larger system. Its how EVE functions to some degree (and very well for many years).

Such players are friends of the game and, if possible, must be boosted by game mechanics.

2) Quite a lot of people, on contrary, percieve it in very alienated, bubbled way, like in all universe there is only them, their giant haulers, bit later - factories and, most of all -- hoarding insanity for sake of hoarding. And they go rabid agressive if someone DARES to bother them, making drama tantrums how they will quit and game ruined by "griefers". Like they playing some SP game and someone illegaly sneaked into their session.

They are totaly not friends of the game. And must be punished with extreme prejudice.

 

[MrFaul]

Don't worry the player base will grow and stabilize once:

1) proper company tools are available and
2) players are independent from the origin stations

Either of them will bring a player surge back and a influx of new people.
I know enough people who are lurking and ask me periodically "is it ready yet?"

 

[Inc0gnit0]

Don't worry the player base will grow and stabilize once:

1) proper company tools are available and
2) players are independent from the origin stations

Either of them will bring a player surge back and a influx of new people.
I know enough people who are lurking and ask me periodically "is it ready yet?"

Optimistic, but no more. This will not be enough to restore the online because it will not bring new content - there will still be the same SZ mining and ship construction. There are 300+ people in our corporation, but now no more than 20 are active, the rest became bored because of the monotonous gameplay.

 

[MrFaul]

You'll see ;-)

SB is a sandbox, so it will always be dependent on its citizens for new content.
However tools in that regard are severely lacking right now,
those points I mentioned are the bare Minium needed for creating such content.

 

[Agonarch]

people can report on people

That's not how the system works, you can report on people for speech in the forums, but there's no specialized system for reporting exploiters - the reporting exploits works like reporting a bug, only it's a bug that could be abused (say for example you find that blocking an engine with a specific size of plate lets it run at full power, so now you can make armoured engines or that kind of thing). Report those and you may get a reward (it's rare though and I haven't actually heard of anyone getting that reward yet).

Relating to the issue of a incorrect value for bastium at the ore vendor (a value set by SB) that was being taken advantage of by your patrons (2 weeks ago), many of whom received bans. We call those people "cheaters" and they were banned and left the game. Regardless of how anyone feels on this matter, i believe this is what happened. If this is complete BS, please tell me and i'll drop it all together. Part of my concern on the matter comes anecdotally from my own observations.

Please know. I'm not listening to cheaters. I'm all alone. I'm not talking to anybody but you guys.

Nope - those bits of information came from the cheaters and those are just some of the lies Lauri refers to, that's not how the auctionhouse exploit worked. It wasn't a little accident either, according to the report at the time those players ran into the hundreds of billions of credits - not something you could do without meaning to, something that took hours upon hours of concerted effort but turned a massive profit quickly. GTA online has done bans and resets for less than what happened there (and they're notoriously gentle on the banhammer).

As for false accusations and bans, we (Vintage Inc) got a lot of accusations of cheating/hacking thrown our way when the blueprint hack happened, because a lot of the ships sold from that list were designed by our members, and the cheaters simply claimed they were officially from us (and they had the blueprints to 'prove' it). This confused a lot of new players who I talked to directly, but because they hadn't talked to us before it was pretty easy to clear things up with most of them - it lingered far longer than those players by word of mouth. It got to the point where prominent sellers were saying we'd had members banned for cheating on the starbase discord, all without having ever actually talked to us. Despite all these accusations thrown our way at that time, none of us had actually done anything wrong, and none of us were banned for anything (again, because we weren't the cheaters there, just the victims of the blueprint theft). I know other companies went through the same thing at the same time (and again, of the ones we're close with, no bans as far as anyone knows).

So far, all the examples I am aware of for players that got banned did something pretty significantly, and obviously wrong. I hope that clears things up a bit - I've yet to see any credible information on an unfair ban, and I've seen tons of straight up lies. As for negativity on twitch, at least one of the banned players (for the blueprint hack) I know of is a fairly prominent twitch streamer, so they absolutely have to now make a new narrative for why they're not playing starbase anymore, I'd take discontent you see there with a bit of a grain of salt until this banwave is a bit further in the past.