Warp trace

[pavvvel]

Question to the developers.
When the player makes a 1000km jump on the capital ship. How will other players be able to find out where he made the jump? I am afraid that such jumps will completely deprive players of the opportunity to hunt each other. There are thoughts about the capital ship crearing a warp trail when jumping, which can be scanned and find out the coordinates.

 

[Drstarke]

nah

 

[Seat-Weld]

Keep in mind that capitals are planned to take at least a few hours, potentially days, of charging before they're able to warp. If you aren't able to destroy or raid a capital in that long of a window then I'd argue them having a clean getaway is a justifiable reward for fending you off.

I believe they said the exact time it takes to warp will be proportionate to the distance being traveled, but I don't know if that has changed at all since last I checked.

 

[pavvvel]

Keep in mind that capitals are planned to take at least a few hours, potentially days, of charging before they're able to warp. If you aren't able to destroy or raid a capital in that long of a window then I'd argue them having a clean getaway is a justifiable reward for fending you off.

I believe they said the exact time it takes to warp will be proportionate to the distance being traveled, but I don't know if that has changed at all since last I checked.

As far as I know, there will be military and civilian capital. and civilian capital will be impossible to destroy or damage. I hope this is not true.

 

[Recatek]

Civilian capitals are specifically designed for non-PvP gameplay and can't be damaged or destroyed, so being able to stalk or camp them after they warp away from you doesn't make any sense. Military capitals are mainly for sieges, which have a long wind-up time and advance notice for the destination, so you'll be able to tell where it's going most of the time before a siege.

 

[Oobfiche]

and civilian capital ships are highly limited in terms of equipment and where they can go, for instance they cannot 1. go to the belts 2. cannot land on moons 3. only able to travel to other existing stations with a compatible dock and 4. cant carry as much cargo or special equipment

 

[ChaosRifle]

civilian capital will be impossible to destroy or damage. I hope this is not true.

This IS true, confirmed by frozenbyte like 5 months ago. Civilian capitals are unable to seige stations, or jump inside a belt without a station to dock at (they can if a station is there to let them dock). Civilian capitals when inside a warzone automatically and forcibly close their hangar doors, not allowing players to leave or enter the ship during a seige, within the warzone. They can not be seiged, and seiging is the only way to destroy/damage capitals/stations, thus they are immune to attacks, in their entirety.

 

[pavvvel]

Civilian capitals are specifically designed for non-PvP gameplay and can't be damaged or destroyed, so being able to stalk or camp them after they warp away from you doesn't make any sense. Military capitals are mainly for sieges, which have a long wind-up time and advance notice for the destination, so you'll be able to tell where it's going most of the time before a siege.

thanks for the reply. it is a pity that civil capital cannot be destroyed, because somewhere in the description of the game I read that this is a completely destructible universe.... and about whether it makes sense to pursue.. of course there is! to find out where the player has a station (for a future siege), or just to kill him.

 

[Recatek]

because somewhere in the description of the game I read that this is a completely destructible universe

It's never been the developers' intent to have a fully FFA free-for-all PvP game where anyone can freely destroy anything owned by anyone anywhere. FB has always wanted to support non-PvP gameplay. That's why safe zones exist, along with mechanics like civ caps. Civ caps are primarily for non-PvP purposes (hence the name), so the ability to stalk them would counteract that objective.

 

[pavvvel]

It's never been the developers' intent to have a fully FFA free-for-all PvP game where anyone can freely destroy anything owned by anyone anywhere. FB has always wanted to support non-PvP gameplay. That's why safe zones exist, along with mechanics like civ caps. Civ caps are primarily for non-PvP purposes (hence the name), so the ability to stalk them would counteract that objective.

Do not confuse your dreams with the desires of developers.

 

[Recatek]

No, that's honestly their stated intent. They've been very clear on that in the discord and elsewhere. They very much want to support both PvP and non-PvP players in Starbase, and mechanics like safe zones and civ caps are geared towards the latter. That isn't even a secret or anything, they've been talking about supporting non-PvP players and the reasons why the safe zone mechanics (and anti-griefing policies, etc.) exist since 2019.

 

[Cavilier210]

Civilian capitals are specifically designed for non-PvP gameplay and can't be damaged or destroyed, so being able to stalk or camp them after they warp away from you doesn't make any sense. Military capitals are mainly for sieges, which have a long wind-up time and advance notice for the destination, so you'll be able to tell where it's going most of the time before a siege.

Iirc, civ caps caught in seiges can get rekt.

 

[Recatek]

At least according to the Capital Ships FAQ, civ caps aren't intended to be vulnerable to attack even during a siege, but will have limitations and you may be stuck inside the safe zone of one. No idea what the state of that implementation is on PTU proper, but that's at least the stated goal as far as I know. The more recent "siege insight" progress notes only mention those restrictions being place on civ caps, not anything about them becoming vulnerable, so I think that's still the design intent.

 

[pavvvel]

No, that's honestly their stated intent. They've been very clear on that in the discord and elsewhere. They very much want to support both PvP and non-PvP players in Starbase, and mechanics like safe zones and civ caps are geared towards the latter. That isn't even a secret or anything, they've been talking about supporting non-PvP players and the reasons why the safe zone mechanics (and anti-griefing policies, etc.) exist since 2019.

What does griffing have to do with killing, for example, unarmed miners? This is a real pvp. What you wrote doesn't matter without proof.

 

[Askannon]

What does griffing have to do with killing, for example, unarmed miners? This is a real pvp. What you wrote doesn't matter without proof.

Griefing as in: not doing PvP but being annoying or even destructive inside the safezone, making it a non safe zone. So it indeed does not have anything to do with your beloved PvP and more with keeping things civil and pleasent inside safezones.

And since you ask for proof:
https://forum.starbasegame.com/thre...l-engineering-policies.1520/page-4#post-17875
And wouldn't you know it, a few posts further down it even talks about civ caps and that this game intends to be open to more than one playstyle.

 

[Recatek]

And since you ask for proof:
https://forum.starbasegame.com/thre...l-engineering-policies.1520/page-4#post-17875
And wouldn't you know it, a few posts further down it even talks about civ caps and that this game intends to be open to more than one playstyle.

I can hear the goalpost moving already, but yeah they've been very clear on supporting non-PvP playstyles like this from the start. There's plenty of quotes to pull up on the discord about it, too -- just search for whatever Lauri has said about PvP and safe zones. It isn't like these safe zones and invulnerable civ caps and such are just an accident or bug. Advocating for the game to allow you to stalk an intentionally non-PvP ship to try to PvP them makes no sense from a design intent perspective, since the point is that those are there in large part for people who don't want to PvP. Even for people who do want to PvP, civ caps are there as an anti-stoneaging mechanic to recover from PvP losses.

 

[ChaosRifle]

Do not confuse your dreams with the desires of developers.

The steam store page when it launched specifically said they wouldn't be focusing on PvP for a while, as they wanted to get the PvE player protection mechanics in place beforehand. PvE in starbase is their dream, not ours.

I don't personally agree with hard safety walls everywhere (safezones), and would much rather see an eve style approach with automated gun platforms to enforce the safetly, to allow players that are skilled to dive in their coverage and make a kill, or unskilled players to be caught off-guard and shot down. Much more dynamic, much more fun, and much harder to abuse a gradient of increasingly lethal turrets at varried ranges, instead of an instant god-mode wall. Anyone who has played DayZ with SZ's knows that unskilled people camp on the edges and poke out of the SZ briefly to make the kill, and if they miss, they step back in for protection.

 

[Cavilier210]

Pretty sure that invincible civ caps weren't originally the intent. But I'm not searching discord about it. After they came out with the design and got the backlash, suddenly that was always the idea. It wasn't always the idea.

 

[pavvvel]

Griefing as in: not doing PvP but being annoying or even destructive inside the safezone, making it a non safe zone. So it indeed does not have anything to do with your beloved PvP and more with keeping things civil and pleasent inside safezones.

And since you ask for proof:
https://forum.starbasegame.com/thre...l-engineering-policies.1520/page-4#post-17875
And wouldn't you know it, a few posts further down it even talks about civ caps and that this game intends to be open to more than one playstyle.

Lauri writes that anything can happen outside the safe zone - this is normal. therefore, I ask you again the question: where is the connection between hunting players (including) unarmed and grifing?? killing players outside the safe zone is normal, it's right and adequate and it's the best content, because it's MMO and everything here should depend on PVP.

therefore, there must be a way to track the jump coordinates of the capital ship. so that the hunter player gets content and gameplay, and the player who owns the capital ship is not completely safe. imagine the size of the asteroid ring. if the player has made a jump to the opposite side of the gas planet, then it will be impossible to find him.
we need mechanics that will allow us to find a "warp trail" within a radius of 300 km using sensors, then, when the warp trail is found (the player flew to it), the vapr trail should have a visual and the ability to scan it to get the coordinates of the jump. these mechanics would be very interesting. if this is not done, then we will continue to see cheap ships made of beams and boxes, players will not need to think about their protection, they will mine anywhere and as much as they want without risk. this will kill the game.

 

[Recatek]

killing players outside the safe zone is normal

You're aware that civ caps generate a safe zone, right? If you're stalking a civ cap, you're stalking someone in a safe zone, because it's a moving safe zone.

Are we just going to get these "please let me PvP everyone everywhere all the time whenever I want" never-ending argument threads every couple of days now? And let me guess, everyone who doesn't like it is a carebear and should just leave the game if they don't like that? The game isn't just made for you and your desire to PvP without restrictions, pavvvel. There are plenty of opportunities to PvP already, and there should be some new fun ones certainly, but if people don't want to PvP then Starbase is explicitly intended to also support that type of gameplay without being harassed. Some people just don't want to PvP, and there is and should continue to be room for them in the game to get a complete experience whether "hardcore" (is it really hardcore if you're asking for help from the devs?) PvPers like it or not.