Emphasis on Smaller ships.

[Variabug]

This is not 3D combat though, this is 4 dimensional. Not thinking about that though, I'm just saying ships will have anti defences, and you want the ships to preferably be specialized rather than too heavy for its class with bombs etc

I don't doubt it would be effective however if you just coordinate it well, but the chance of getting blown up by a larger vessel before you get close enough to get that accurate shot in on any powerline is what I'm questioning.

Ummm. This is 3d. 4d is the addition of time and I don't think time travel is possible in Starbase.

Anyway, that's really an issue of overall balance and weapons. There are heat seeking missiles and the devs have talking about laser guided missiles which would increase the effective range of heavy weapons. Also depends on the skill of both the fighter and the gunnery crew.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Ummm. This is 3d. 4d is the addition of time and I don't think time travel is possible in Starbase.

Anyway, that's really an issue of overall balance and weapons. There are heat seeking missiles and the devs have talking about laser guided missiles which would increase the effective range of heavy weapons. Also depends on the skill of both the fighter and the gunnery crew.

I would imagine missile boats would be massively effective if guidance got advanced enough.

 

[Variabug]

I would imagine missile boats would be massively effective if guidance got advanced enough.

Well missiles don't seem that different to modern military versions really. Biggest problem is if the become popular people will begin emphasizing on missile defense and staying out of range. Hell, rail guns max range is around 6km which is 1km that ship rendering range.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Well missiles don't seem that different to modern military versions really. Biggest problem is if the become popular people will begin emphasizing on missile defense and staying out of range. Hell, rail guns max range is around 6km which is 1km that ship rendering range.

I feel like these sorts of metas will always form, the devs just need to make as many weapons viable as possible.

 

[Variabug]

I feel like these sorts of metas will always form, the devs just need to make as many weapons viable as possible.

Well the first couple months will have a lot of rebalancing. I guarantee it.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Well the first couple months will have a lot of rebalancing. I guarantee it.

No doubt, no game starts out perfectly. Things will break.

 

[Morrgard]

Ummm. This is 3d. 4d is the addition of time and I don't think time travel is possible in Starbase.


Anyway, that's really an issue of overall balance and weapons. There are heat seeking missiles and the devs have talking about laser guided missiles which would increase the effective range of heavy weapons. Also depends on the skill of both the fighter and the gunnery crew.

Edited my previous message. My point was that combat will be less simple as there will be up, down, right-left, forth and backwards unlike traditional warfare on earth. Or "no direction" because of space.

Yes, the skill will be a massive part to any crew & ship, whether or not it's gunnery, quick repairs or deploying fighters fast. Or just shooting with a fighter and hitting your target accurately.

As long as it's a balanced fleet or ship composition with some support you should be able to do quite a lot of manoeuvres as well

 

[CalenLoki]

Countless games proved that removing gravity (up/down) and reducing amount of cover actually simplify combat. Space is simple.

 

[Morrgard]

Countless games proved that removing gravity (up/down) and reducing amount of cover actually simplify combat. Space is simple.

True. But I wouldn't say space is so simple haha. But in terms of combat I mean that in terms of strategies and general combat. Whilst simplified due to it's nature being in space, tactics, strategies and angles of attack all increase.

 

[[PT] Jarandjar]

Smaller combat ships could be used to drain munitions.

 

[Morrgard]

Smaller combat ships could be used to drain munitions.

haha as long as they don't get hit, then it just becomes a waste of resources.

 

[[PT] Jarandjar]

haha as long as they don't get hit, then it just becomes a waste of resources.

Well What if you use the cheapest resource and a sort of slingshot cannon? YOLOL Can do some magical things

 

[Morrgard]

Well What if you use the cheapest resource and a sort of slingshot cannon? YOLOL Can do some magical things

I believe even the cheapest resources would be a while to make as you would still need the key components of the vessel which may take more.

And that slingshot cannon I'm not sure about. you could only get your vessels up to 105m/s I think it was, and so it won't benefit greatly from a slingshot. Does sound like it would take resources and lots of space to make a working one

 

[Vic]

It is uncertain wether small ships will be that ubiquitous in PvP. While they may sound more cost effective than larger ships and while agility is a valuable asset in the combat we have seen so far, there are several factors that may limit the effectiveness of light ship depending on how they are implemented in game:

- if fuel and ammo are heavy or expended very quickly in combat they will have limited range compared to larger ships.
- the agility required to dodge certain weapons may be prohibitive in terms of how much mass you can dedicate to armament and supplies, limiting the offensive capabilities of light ships too greatly.
- The amount of thrusters (and fuel to power said thrusters) needed to make a decently armed light fighter may make it less interesting in terms of cost. It may also simply push it into a category where it is no longer a small or light ship.
- The relative effectiveness of heavy armor or light weaponry might make agile but lightly armored and armed ships ineffective agaist ships that are less agile but heavily armored and properly armed to hit fast targets.
- light ships can not carry a great diversity of weapons, so using them appropriately and effectively may requires more planning and knowledge than jack of all trades medium or large ships. Depending on how easy tactical informations is to come by and how diverse ship designs and combat tactics will be in game, it might make building enought light fighter to face all relevant combat scenarios a waste of ressources in spite of their low individual cost.
- Depending on how things like respawn and combat repairs work, ships that are large enough to have numerous crew, offer some level of protection to the crew inside or afford them time to react to damage might be more relevant in combat than small and fast glass canons.

All in all I think it’s a little early to say that a certain scale of ship will trump all others. Ultimately it will probably be more a matter of adequately scaling a ship to it’s intended purpose rather than trying to make it a certain size relative to other ships.

 

[Kenetor]

Well the first couple months will have a lot of rebalancing. I guarantee it.

This is what EA is for after all.

 

[Morrgard]

It is uncertain wether small ships will be that ubiquitous in PvP. While they may sound more cost effective than larger ships and while agility is a valuable asset in the combat we have seen so far, there are several factors that may limit the effectiveness of light ship depending on how they are implemented in game:

- if fuel and ammo are heavy or expended very quickly in combat they will have limited range compared to larger ships.
- the agility required to dodge certain weapons may be prohibitive in terms of how much mass you can dedicate to armament and supplies, limiting the offensive capabilities of light ships too greatly.
- The amount of thrusters (and fuel to power said thrusters) needed to make a decently armed light fighter may make it less interesting in terms of cost. It may also simply push it into a category where it is no longer a small or light ship.
- The relative effectiveness of heavy armor or light weaponry might make agile but lightly armored and armed ships ineffective agaist ships that are less agile but heavily armored and properly armed to hit fast targets.
- light ships can not carry a great diversity of weapons, so using them appropriately and effectively may requires more planning and knowledge than jack of all trades medium or large ships. Depending on how easy tactical informations is to come by and how diverse ship designs and combat tactics will be in game, it might make building enought light fighter to face all relevant combat scenarios a waste of ressources in spite of their low individual cost.
- Depending on how things like respawn and combat repairs work, ships that are large enough to have numerous crew, offer some level of protection to the crew inside or afford them time to react to damage might be more relevant in combat than small and fast glass canons.

All in all I think it’s a little early to say that a certain scale of ship will trump all others. Ultimately it will probably be more a matter of adequately scaling a ship to it’s intended purpose rather than trying to make it a certain size relative to other ships.

It depends if you are engaging in a fleet battle, skirmish or just a 1 v 1 ship situation. It really varies a lot since in a fleet battle smaller vessels (fighters bombers etc) should be used to support the large ships by taking out enemy small vessels, before targeting large ones. Skirmishes it is more or less the same. But if you only have one small ship to choose then I would definitely recommend it to be multipurpose (if solo play) or you won't really have many options, but that also makes said ship slow.

But that is how it should go in my opinion. Smaller ships shouldn't be counted on to do so many agile maneuvers per se but just count them towards the effectivity that you want them to have. If they fulfill what you made them for then their purpose is served.

 

[Metal]

Regardless of what is the best meta wise you will see both giant and small ships.

 

[Whiteagle]

That task can be done with turrets on larger ships

It would be better to just practice aiming and predicting what trajectory the enemy ship is moving in. As having fewer guns but more accurately placed shots would cause more moderate damage than a few stray bullets from a mass of them.

Yeah, more reactive Aiming is actually one of the things Fighter-craft are going to have over larger Ships, since YOLOL is rather sluggish and makes Direct "Analog" Input far more responsive for Turret Turn-tables.
Thus, you'd either want a bunch of Gunners DIRECTLY manning individual Turrets, or Fighter Pilots just trying to Dogfight and keep their nose on whatever needs taken down.

This is assuming you can even get close enough to the large ship to get semi accurate shots in before getting ripped apart by flak

This assumes you can put out enough Flak to create an effective screen.
Auto Cannons look to have a Projectile Lifetime of only 2 seconds, so with a Muzzle Velocity of presumably 900 m/s that's just under 2 km of Range...

All in all I think it’s a little early to say that a certain scale of ship will trump all others. Ultimately it will probably be more a matter of adequately scaling a ship to it’s intended purpose rather than trying to make it a certain size relative to other ships.

Indeed, a Rail Cannon Artillery Ship might be great at holing things at 5 km, but I doubt it'd be able to out Dogfight most Fighters.

 

[Morrgard]

Yeah, more reactive Aiming is actually one of the things Fighter-craft are going to have over larger Ships, since YOLOL is rather sluggish and makes Direct "Analog" Input far more responsive for Turret Turn-tables.
Thus, you'd either want a bunch of Gunners DIRECTLY manning individual Turrets, or Fighter Pilots just trying to Dogfight and keep their nose on whatever needs taken down.


This assumes you can put out enough Flak to create an effective screen.
Auto Cannons look to have a Projectile Lifetime of only 2 seconds, so with a Muzzle Velocity of presumably 900 m/s that's just under 2 km of Range...


Indeed, a Rail Cannon Artillery Ship might be great at holing things at 5 km, but I doubt it'd be able to out Dogfight most Fighters.

I doubt that a rail cannon artillery ship would try, hopefully someone did not bring one in alone haha, I mean that ship really should have some fighter / interceptor escorts at least, Artillery vessels are only support ships just like carriers.

 

[Burnside]

Sweet spot is likely to be bombers/fighter-bombers or gunboats in general, just large enough to mount anti-ship fixed guns and one or more turrets with enough maneuverability and speed to stay competitive with pure fighters.