Helping larger ships to be more viable
- Thread starter kiiyo
- Start date
- Tags gunships ship classes spaceship
First of all:
Warp drives: I like the idea of having a fast travel tool independent of the big warp gates. Here is my problem: If you can simply jump away the second you get jumped on is a bad way to balance the game because then everybody would just have big ships and small fighters would become utterly useless. Here is my idea: Instead of pressing a button and whoosh, make it have a charge up time. Also: I would make it like star wars: You dont travel really really really REALLY fast but instead u travel in a seperate dimension, this would make for a nice gameplay element: Having to actually calculate ur route to not smash into Elysium when leaving hyper space. This would also be less stressfull on the physics engine, since it wouldnt have to load in every asteroid and ship in ur way and do math for the collision.
Secondly:
Shields: I would like to make the shields energy based (duh). Like SC u could make it so shields fully protect against energy weapons (Laser- and Plasmacannon, i think Railguns fire actual projectiles) and partly absorb the kinetic energy of physical weapons, main example auto cannon. Now i would like these shield modules (the device) to be dependant on their size, to big to fit in any parasite craft. Dependant on their size should be their shield capacity. Like a efficiency module for generators there would be modules to increase shield capacity and shield recharge rate (shield recharges only when completely down). For deploying shields u could make it so it automatically fits onto the outer hull, or you have shield projectors, which are unable to be mounted on rotatable surfaces. Shield projectors share their shield pool with other projectors. This would lead to interesting shield management gameplay
Warp drives: I like the idea of having a fast travel tool independent of the big warp gates. Here is my problem: If you can simply jump away the second you get jumped on is a bad way to balance the game because then everybody would just have big ships and small fighters would become utterly useless. Here is my idea: Instead of pressing a button and whoosh, make it have a charge up time. Also: I would make it like star wars: You dont travel really really really REALLY fast but instead u travel in a seperate dimension, this would make for a nice gameplay element: Having to actually calculate ur route to not smash into Elysium when leaving hyper space. This would also be less stressfull on the physics engine, since it wouldnt have to load in every asteroid and ship in ur way and do math for the collision.
Secondly:
Shields: I would like to make the shields energy based (duh). Like SC u could make it so shields fully protect against energy weapons (Laser- and Plasmacannon, i think Railguns fire actual projectiles) and partly absorb the kinetic energy of physical weapons, main example auto cannon. Now i would like these shield modules (the device) to be dependant on their size, to big to fit in any parasite craft. Dependant on their size should be their shield capacity. Like a efficiency module for generators there would be modules to increase shield capacity and shield recharge rate (shield recharges only when completely down). For deploying shields u could make it so it automatically fits onto the outer hull, or you have shield projectors, which are unable to be mounted on rotatable surfaces. Shield projectors share their shield pool with other projectors. This would lead to interesting shield management gameplay
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2021
- Messages
- 12
I think big ships in general are used for tanking... so... lots of armor. They should be capable of being destroyed just as anything else but... fundamentally, large pvp ships need to tank, carry lots of weapons / ammo / armor with them, possibly support smaller fighers. That's really the only reason you'd build a large pvp ship.
If there's going to be org battles in this game, a large pvp ship should last the whole fight if it's built and supplied well. I think if you establish this baseline, then game changes that cater to this specific idea follow (if changes are necessary).
If there's going to be org battles in this game, a large pvp ship should last the whole fight if it's built and supplied well. I think if you establish this baseline, then game changes that cater to this specific idea follow (if changes are necessary).
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2019
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- 576
It would be nice to be able to choose between many smaller weapons on a large ship, or a few larger weapons. There are pro's and cons to both.
When larger ships come, 24-48 sm thick plates may be necessary as well. Ya know, I guess a good differentiation is may just be the raw size of components. Say the large thrusters are just so large that it makes a fighter and easier to target enemy than one that has smaller thrusters. Components too large to move with just an endo.
When larger ships come, 24-48 sm thick plates may be necessary as well. Ya know, I guess a good differentiation is may just be the raw size of components. Say the large thrusters are just so large that it makes a fighter and easier to target enemy than one that has smaller thrusters. Components too large to move with just an endo.
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Logic i guess, I should've been more specific and stated that the weapons shouldn't harm armor, only modules. If everything under the sun can harm heavy armor(even through slow chip), its useless because you'd be better off smaller and more maneuverable. Having special weapons does nothing for survivability in a multi threat environment.
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- Nov 12, 2019
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Ok, I now find that interesting, but honestly, we don't have "heavy armor" We just have high armor score. I could see heavy armor being a thing when much larger ships become viable. Like when you can make 2-3 billion voxel volume ships. However, with the current limits, I think it best that armor be "chippable" as you put it.
I agree with non-chippable armour idea.
But not through some magic shields.
Instead bullets should make small holes in armour, and leave rest of the plate intact and functional. So you'd want to either take slow-firing weapon that will penetrate it, or high rof and aim for unarmoured ships or parts.
So you'd have weapons/ammo dedicated to shoot unarmoured targets (HMG, Flak, frag missiles and torps), 1 layer of armour (LC), 2 layers (AC APHE), 3 layers (AC AP), ... , 6 layers (RC)
The only weapons really capable of chipping away armour layer after layer would be PC, and all the HE (missiles, torps, AC HE).
That way even 1 layer would matter, rather than having "all or nothing" mentality.
Also components should stop working with much less damage. 1-2 bullet holes should be enough to silence a thruster. So once you pass through armour, each hit matters.
"Easy to disable, hard to kill" is much nicer approach in a game where each ship is worth few hours of work.
It also makes it easier to fix ship components in battle, which is the domain of multi-crew ships with internal access.
But not through some magic shields.
Instead bullets should make small holes in armour, and leave rest of the plate intact and functional. So you'd want to either take slow-firing weapon that will penetrate it, or high rof and aim for unarmoured ships or parts.
So you'd have weapons/ammo dedicated to shoot unarmoured targets (HMG, Flak, frag missiles and torps), 1 layer of armour (LC), 2 layers (AC APHE), 3 layers (AC AP), ... , 6 layers (RC)
The only weapons really capable of chipping away armour layer after layer would be PC, and all the HE (missiles, torps, AC HE).
That way even 1 layer would matter, rather than having "all or nothing" mentality.
Also components should stop working with much less damage. 1-2 bullet holes should be enough to silence a thruster. So once you pass through armour, each hit matters.
"Easy to disable, hard to kill" is much nicer approach in a game where each ship is worth few hours of work.
It also makes it easier to fix ship components in battle, which is the domain of multi-crew ships with internal access.
Maybe I phrased that wrong.
"All or nothing" as in armouring just the important bits, and leaving everything else much less protected will always work.
I meant "there should be more valid in-between choices than frontal main battle tank armour and thin aluminium sheet"
Thrusters would be weak, but only if you hit them directly. If they are all together in a big flat wall, then yeah, one good burst and you're crippled. But the same would happen if you place exposed tank next to your cockpit. We shouldn't balance around shitty design.
However, if they are all protected by baffles, ship geometry and are spaced around the ship, they'd live much longer.
IMO the same bullet that can remove 1000 voxels of armour, should be able to remove at least 10x more voxels of internal components.
Otherwise what's the point of armouring, if components are just as tough?
"All or nothing" as in armouring just the important bits, and leaving everything else much less protected will always work.
I meant "there should be more valid in-between choices than frontal main battle tank armour and thin aluminium sheet"
Thrusters would be weak, but only if you hit them directly. If they are all together in a big flat wall, then yeah, one good burst and you're crippled. But the same would happen if you place exposed tank next to your cockpit. We shouldn't balance around shitty design.
However, if they are all protected by baffles, ship geometry and are spaced around the ship, they'd live much longer.
IMO the same bullet that can remove 1000 voxels of armour, should be able to remove at least 10x more voxels of internal components.
Otherwise what's the point of armouring, if components are just as tough?
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2019
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I can understand the annoyance of all or nothing armoring. In real life, it served a very meaningful purpose for warships.
However, on the weapons, I think the devices are literally made of the materials they list in the SSC for what is in them. Meaning they have those materials properties. Bastium is a crappy armor and most devices and machinery are bastium. So we already do get what you're asking for.
I got rodded at Robur through 4 layers of charodium. So I think we do have what you're looking for. What I think you would mean is likean AP round that pens and the detonated, which no current weapon does.
However, on the weapons, I think the devices are literally made of the materials they list in the SSC for what is in them. Meaning they have those materials properties. Bastium is a crappy armor and most devices and machinery are bastium. So we already do get what you're asking for.
I got rodded at Robur through 4 layers of charodium. So I think we do have what you're looking for. What I think you would mean is likean AP round that pens and the detonated, which no current weapon does.
I think Armour and turrets together are what Large ships need. It seems turret aiming is among the biggest problems to work around when it comes to viability. As well in combat if larger turret mounts capable of holding more that two guns and more armour, were implemented the effectiveness of turrets would i think increase. From what I've seen shooting using turrets is plain ineffective due to imput lag.