Incorporating an in-game Ship design element into the real-time MMO, and abolishing a separate Creative mode

[LauriFB]

I always imagined that I'll move inside Starbase world to buid that huge, functional society with thousands of players, and been telling that to my co-workers for better part of the development also But I never realized that this same plan could also substitute the sandbox mode.

So at least that building and managing a functional, player-driven universe is a planned thing. I'm also positive that we could find enough motivated players to help with that, and I plan to look for those people for the very first pre-alphas already (so part of the alpha players would be there to build the society, and rest would be there to break the game). I for one at least would be there playing all the time, and that also guarantees that there will be enough developer presence to accomplish a working society.

The biggest challenge is to build a society large enough which can welcome all new players to be it's members with a meaning, especially at the Early Access launch. If that is managed, I'm fairly certain it will feed itself for the foreseeable future.

 

[Jetthetank]

That sounds like a great plan, I like your thinking.
I am all for a more immersive involved universe.
But one issue when you go this deep, which I dont like facing this either.
Is it needs to have a certain balance, because obviously most people have a life outside of games, and can't fully lead a virtual lifestyle in one game world.

This is where I think it is great, having you devs being part of that building block, because you of all people are the ones most likely to be able to put all of those requirements in swing.
And I feel this is a crucial part of this MMO to have the devs involvement on this level to "set the playground" in which all player types can build off of, new players, and "no-lifers" that devote all there time into this particular game. (I might be one...)

 

[Morrgard]

I always imagined that I'll move inside Starbase world to buid that huge, functional society with thousands of players, and been telling that to my co-workers for better part of the development also But I never realized that this same plan could also substitute the sandbox mode.

So at least that building and managing a functional, player-driven universe is a planned thing. I'm also positive that we could find enough motivated players to help with that, and I plan to look for those people for the very first pre-alphas already (so part of the alpha players would be there to build the society, and rest would be there to break the game). I for one at least would be there playing all the time, and that also guarantees that there will be enough developer presence to accomplish a working society.

The biggest challenge is to build a society large enough which can welcome all new players to be it's members with a meaning, especially at the Early Access launch. If that is managed, I'm fairly certain it will feed itself for the foreseeable future.

It's great to see a developer so into their game that they wish to make functional societies and jobs and everything to it in a game.

I'm really liking the idea that you have and having those select people journey with you to create the base of Starbase society. Looking forward to seeing this become reality in the near future

 

[Jetthetank]

It's great to see a developer so into their game that they wish to make functional societies and jobs and everything to it in a game.

I'm really liking the idea that you have and having those select people journey with you to create the base of Starbase society. Looking forward to seeing this become reality in the near future

SOON

 

[Vernizzi3]

So if a separate sandbox mode would to be scrapped, would ship designing/testing jobs be acceptable solution? Ie. factions would offer the resources to design and test the ships, and there would be areas/stations dedicated to ship design/testing. I always imagined I'd be building the Empire this way, and there would be great need for a lot of ship designers (and not just warships, all public transport, mining etc. ships also need designers), and the large design/test ranges and factories inside the game world would indeed add up a lot to the universe. But if we would be to scrap or at least postpone sandbox that might guarantee the labor needed for massive progress ...

I think the only really important thing is to have a design environment, which then is in online or sandbox changes little, the difference is that if you start everything online the game does not break and there would be more sharing of projects, it would be nice also to create standard models for and sharing that could be: corridors, colors to indicate departments of the ship, layout of flight commands ... this standard in a sandbox would only be possible between guilds but here we are inside macro factions where the objective of the players is to do the good of their faction and therefore it would be convenient and desirable for the design to take place online ... having said that designing can NOT become a frustrating experience, so there must be some sort of creative editor. I apologize for the lengthy end

long life to the Empire.
.

P.S.:

sorry written with google translator

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

So if a separate sandbox mode would to be scrapped, would ship designing/testing jobs be acceptable solution? Ie. factions would offer the resources to design and test the ships, and there would be areas/stations dedicated to ship design/testing. I always imagined I'd be building the Empire this way, and there would be great need for a lot of ship designers (and not just warships, all public transport, mining etc. ships also need designers), and the large design/test ranges and factories inside the game world would indeed add up a lot to the universe. But if we would be to scrap or at least postpone sandbox that might guarantee the labor needed for massive progress ...

This would definitely create new jobs and kickstart a whole new sector of the economy. I'd imagine we need insurance companies too in case the ship tester is injured during testing

 

[Morrgard]

This would definitely create new jobs and kickstart a whole new sector of the economy. I'd imagine we need insurance companies too in case the ship tester is injured during testing

Were there not already insurance companies & ship/station insurances?

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Were there not already insurance companies & ship/station insurances?

I don't think any of them cover injury by ship testing in their terms and conditions haha

 

[Morrgard]

I don't think any of them cover injury by ship testing in their terms and conditions haha

I see the point. But I believe that it would just go with the normal insurance of endoskeletons. Don't think it would be that specific haha.

What are your takes on the previous suggestions of the thread?

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

I see the point. But I believe that it would just go with the normal insurance of endoskeletons. Don't think it would be that specific haha.

What are your takes on the previous suggestions of the thread?

I believe I stated some earlier. I'm absolutely 100% for abolition of a seperate sandbox mode as it adds life to the game world, can you imagine going into dock with your ship and you see a monstrosity of a warship half finished in its dock with lots of little robots scurrying all over it riveting on new panels, wiring bits and pieces etc.

 

[oonzgoonz]

Wow some very good points in this thread. I would have originally preferred offline sandbox testing but I've now changed my mind.

Sandbox testing would be more efficient but online testing much more fun. In a pvp game players will always choose the most efficient even if it's less fun. So maybe it's best to remove the less fun options.

 

[Morrgard]

I believe I stated some earlier. I'm absolutely 100% for abolition of a seperate sandbox mode as it adds life to the game world, can you imagine going into dock with your ship and you see a monstrosity of a warship half finished in its dock with lots of little robots scurrying all over it riveting on new panels, wiring bits and pieces etc.

That would indeed bring a lot of life to a station and I believe it would be a very nice thing to encounter upon entering stations. Bringing life to a game especially by non-NPC's is always an impressive task, especially if you manage to give players incentive/goal to continue doing what they are for the greater good (Tau reference ^^) of a larger player count. Not to mention how it would bring a helpful tone to the game on its own as helping other players could potentially give either good karma or someone new to join your faction/party/company to help you out with more manpower.

 

[Recatek]

Having an offline sandbox mode doesn't seem nearly as harmful as it's being presented here, seeing as station lots are already semi-instanced and you likely won't see those people regardless. Even if you did, it's in a safe zone with a permission system and they're under no obligation to even talk to you. Removing the sandbox aspect sounds like it would create a lot of boring/frustrating busywork of needless throwaway resource gathering for no particularly good reason.

Creating an online society is a wonderful high-level goal, but there are ways to do that besides removing a useful tool for the playerbase and replacing it with tedium. I'd much rather see what interesting ships evolve when people are free to experiment and explore their creativity without having to sink hours or days into each iteration.

 

[CalenLoki]

Online, offline. As long as I can focus on designing and testing without tedious grind, it's good for me.

Remember that some people are here because of new unique interesting building mechanics, not MMO.

 

[Vampiricdust]

Having an offline sandbox mode doesn't seem nearly as harmful as it's being presented here, seeing as station lots are already semi-instanced and you likely won't see those people regardless. Even if you did, it's in a safe zone with a permission system and they're under no obligation to even talk to you. Removing the sandbox aspect sounds like it would create a lot of boring/frustrating busywork of needless throwaway resource gathering for no particularly good reason.

Creating an online society is a wonderful high-level goal, but there are ways to do that besides removing a useful tool for the playerbase and replacing it with tedium. I'd much rather see what interesting ships evolve when people are free to experiment and explore their creativity without having to sink hours or days into each iteration.

Ok, harmful is the wrong word. It's not harming anything per se, but it's taking people away from an immersive world to play in mostly empty sandbox that doesn't progress. There's no saving in the sandbox, so players will lose everything between sessions anyways. If they were online, all their progress is saved, affects everyone around them in the game, and ultimately contributes the game play experience of everyone.

We're not talking about removing a useful tool, we're advocating those useful tools just be in the online game instead of making a separate thing which would allow players to hide from the game world. It limits the possibilities more than adds.

I always imagined that I'll move inside Starbase world to buid that huge, functional society with thousands of players, and been telling that to my co-workers for better part of the development also But I never realized that this same plan could also substitute the sandbox mode.

So at least that building and managing a functional, player-driven universe is a planned thing. I'm also positive that we could find enough motivated players to help with that, and I plan to look for those people for the very first pre-alphas already (so part of the alpha players would be there to build the society, and rest would be there to break the game). I for one at least would be there playing all the time, and that also guarantees that there will be enough developer presence to accomplish a working society.

The biggest challenge is to build a society large enough which can welcome all new players to be it's members with a meaning, especially at the Early Access launch. If that is managed, I'm fairly certain it will feed itself for the foreseeable future.

That's basically what this thread is about, we're motivated to make this game a success and we want the game to have the best chance from day 1. We want you guys to succeed and we're all planning to put the hours into the game to not just have fun on a game, but help it grow so it's better for everyone along the way. The sandbox can always be done later, but you can't really undo it once you release it. It's harder to remove a feature than it is to delay it.

 

[Morrgard]

I mean as long as there's a blueprint editor integrated into the multiplayer where there is no grinding to do, so you can test you're blueprinted vessel and make anything you want. But it's just a blueprint, you gotta test it in a ship testing hangar afterwards via an in-game computer simulation that puts a version of your ship in the testing hangar, everyone can see it like it's there but it's only inside this grid as a hologram but fully seeable to players, whilst whoever is testing it see it as they are in the ship (like normal) but no resources go to it yet and then after that second phase of construction which is testing, you can either go back to edit you're blueprint or choose to build it in the game.

More how I envisioned it, it's just incorporated in the main game

 

[Jetthetank]

I mean as long as there's a blueprint editor integrated into the multiplayer where there is no grinding to do, so you can test you're blueprinted vessel and make anything you want. But it's just a blueprint, you gotta test it in a ship testing hangar afterwards via an in-game computer simulation that puts a version of your ship in the testing hangar, everyone can see it like it's there but it's only inside this grid as a hologram but fully seeable to players, whilst whoever is testing it see it as they are in the ship (like normal) but no resources go to it yet and then after that second phase of construction which is testing, you can either go back to edit you're blueprint or choose to build it in the game.

More how I envisioned it, it's just incorporated in the main game

Yea! Lol, that is pretty identical to what I envisioned from the start.
Some thing maybe accessed through a console where only you can see or your friends. But would still be in real space to design.

 

[YakkoForever]

scarcity of a service creates value in that service. If everyone can easily and at no cost test their ship designs there will be no scarcity of services.

what is the value in being a ship designer when everyone is a ship designer? what separates a good designer from a poor one is not the quality of the result. what seperates the designers is how few tries it takes to reach that result. with enough trial and error anyone can make a great car but a skill designer will make a great car on the first try.

The hologram room is a cool idea but It will replace all tests if it is made to useful. the hologram room should just be a mostly empty space flight test where you can fly around and make sure the controls work. That is as much hand holding as the system should give you. no oncoming fire, no targets to shoot, just a zone to make sure our controls work and you ship can fly straight.

 

[Recatek]

A lot of this thread seems predicated on the idea that forcing people into the game world will make the game better for you.

What about the people that just want to tinker with the physics and engineering mechanics at their own pace? I see no reason not to let them. They're paying the entry fee all the same to have their own fun, not just to be your world decorations.

 

[Jetthetank]

scarcity of a service creates value in that service. If everyone can easily and at no cost test their ship designs there will be no scarcity of services.

what is the value in being a ship designer when everyone is a ship designer? what separates a good designer from a poor one is not the quality of the result. what seperates the designers is how few tries it takes to reach that result. with enough trial and error anyone can make a great car but a skill designer will make a great car on the first try.

The hologram room is a cool idea but It will replace all tests if it is made to useful. the hologram room should just be a mostly empty space flight test where you can fly around and make sure the controls work. That is as much hand holding as the system should give you. no oncoming fire, no targets to shoot, just a zone to make sure our controls work and you ship can fly straight.

I dont even think you should be able to Fly around. I envision just a simulation that gives you volumetric and stat outputs.
These are just my personal ideas.