I'm more or less the same. I'm not going to resort to waving my fists in the air or smash my keyboard or quit if I don't get my way and I honestly I'm impressed with the ambition and progress FB has made. I'm hyped about the game and I really want it to succeed. That said, given the facts and current publicly known info, I'll still take opportunities to point out things *I* consider to be exploitable or bad moves. As a matter of fact, I still have some hanging questions and issues in this thread. That's what EA is about and if I was running a project, I'd prefer a hundred loud voices asking pointed questions earlier than necessary rather than yes men or none at all. I'm sure they'll get it right in the end just as you, but if enough diverse people that have played these kinds of games for a long time give their thoughtful input, maybe that end won't be as far as it normally would be.
Starbase Progress Notes: Week 33 - Capital Ship insight (2021)
- Thread starter ElluFB
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Can definitely understand asking the questions. I'm waiting to ask my own questions based on what details finally come out. Without the details I'm just practically swinging my fist in the open air at a non-existing opponent. I'm sure I could come up with a 1000 questions but I'd rather see FB play their hand first and then go on that. At least CCAPS will be introduced in the PTU first and given how nervous many are about them will bring about many playing the PTU to give critical feedback at that point before it even comes over to Live.
FB is not known for being deaf so I have to imagine that they've definitely heard the massive concerns surrounding the CCAP. I imagine they're having internal discussions even now. So I await how they respond via the details they finally release so then I can go at what exist at that point!
FB is not known for being deaf so I have to imagine that they've definitely heard the massive concerns surrounding the CCAP. I imagine they're having internal discussions even now. So I await how they respond via the details they finally release so then I can go at what exist at that point!
I’m going to try to adopt you guys’ philosophy on it. It’s the mature way of thinking of it. It’s not out yet, and there is still testing to be made. So we will see. Too early for me to be freaking out. Lol I guess you guys see where I’m coming from, so that I know these points won’t just be coming from me alone, with no one agreeing. So, there’s that as a good thing.
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Removing important things in a live game is a dangerous move. It pisses gamers off like nothing else. This would be triply the case with such a central and long-grinded-for mechanic as capital ships. It won't be able to be fixed very easily.
I am concerned that the capital ships are just going to replace starbases, which would be....darkly amusing in a game called Starbase. It just seems to be where the incentives are. They can do virtually everything a starbase can except be a market hub. And that's just not that important to 99% of players. There's only ever going to be a few market hub stations that anyone actually cares about. Everyone else will be flying around in capital ships, with full service factory zones. It won't happen immediately - I'm sure they won't be cheap. it will take time for everyone to assemble the necessary resources. But that is just a delay. Capital ships are permanent investments! A game with as many capital ships as active players is the inevitable result of the current direction.
By the time the problems with everyone running around in invulnerable capital ships becomes obvious to everyone, the only fair way to deal with it would be a wipe. Which would suck, a lot.
I am concerned that the capital ships are just going to replace starbases, which would be....darkly amusing in a game called Starbase. It just seems to be where the incentives are. They can do virtually everything a starbase can except be a market hub. And that's just not that important to 99% of players. There's only ever going to be a few market hub stations that anyone actually cares about. Everyone else will be flying around in capital ships, with full service factory zones. It won't happen immediately - I'm sure they won't be cheap. it will take time for everyone to assemble the necessary resources. But that is just a delay. Capital ships are permanent investments! A game with as many capital ships as active players is the inevitable result of the current direction.
By the time the problems with everyone running around in invulnerable capital ships becomes obvious to everyone, the only fair way to deal with it would be a wipe. Which would suck, a lot.
Some of these elements they are planning to add were already available, or at least partially, in the Alpha, or have been worked on for quite some time already. Add to that this is early access alpha, so almost everything is still being debated (except for core gameplay I'm guessing).
That's one of the things I love about the development of this game and this early access, basically we 'the players' are an active element in their development cycle. And you can tell by the way they respond to feedback and how regular their updates are, be it small or major.
That's one of the things I love about the development of this game and this early access, basically we 'the players' are an active element in their development cycle. And you can tell by the way they respond to feedback and how regular their updates are, be it small or major.
I agree with you. I feel like they will have an impact in a much broader way than you mentioned even. The economy, for one… this post quote from Lauri seems to also suggest that not only will ccap ships be able to move within the belt, but they warp to foundations. So, you can just pick one up, and place it down in another location. Remember that update we had about that huge module we need to save data onto a chip for coordinates for cap ship to warp to? Yea.. no where in sight in this issue. im not sure what’s going on. It looks bad, and as broken as it could possibly be.. makes no sense at all. but just waiting to see what happens. That way we can respond to exactly what we see, rather than an educated guess.
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Having vast loads of safe wealth that people horde distorts the economy. Nothing in a pvp game should be wholly safe. However, with civ caps you can safely move materials and assets without ever being in danger. Ever. Thats not how you make a good game that is so aimed at player interaction and pvp.
yes. Absolutely, and eve nailed this perfectly. The economy in that game is legendary. Everything has to make a loop for it to stay alive. There were groups who did no pvp. They only built ships and weapons for people because people constantly blew them up. This creates a loop. The pvp people get to fight, and the pve people get to make shit loads of money from people who wanna fight. Everyone wins. But, without player interaction, when the game lets you do your own thing and rewards you for it, like flying around in God mode, that loop ceases to exist. Therefore, no economy.
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Supply, and demand. I’m sure a lot of you smart gents already know this. But, when supply is high, demand is low. When demand is low, price drops. When supply is low, and demand is high, price rises. So, if we are all rich because there is no pvp that is meaningful, that means the supply sky rockets, and there is no demand. Like, at all.
sometimes i feel like you guys are not understanding that civ caps can be lost overtime due to the derelict system. as for "storing all the wealth" once someone engages siege on you. your locked out forever on your civ cap till the whole thing ends. even perma locking your civ to stay there. and you gotta store all of your crap physically. theres no UI inventory what so ever this includes ships too as there is no despawn system for it
oh but you can, the interesting part is civ caps dont teleport. so blocking off the capital hangar after you get their station is something that would permanently lock them out and yours to keep. given that theres no blind warping and caps use fuel theres also the case of people just up and abandoning their caps of any type due to lack of fuel or blockade. as for why they would abandon when out of fuel. well would you rather take the couple day trip to get it back but dont know where it is or just make a new one again. as for that one person wondering how people can be locked out on your civ cap. theres structural requirements where you need a sealed hull and a forcefield door. when siege is on the door will close permanently till it ends. this also means if someone is upgrading their civ cap and its missing a piece of its hull. it wont be a civ cap at that time. so it will be siegable through normal means
Why is this the first time this forum has heard of this shit? 🤦♂️ But why would someone abandon their Civ ship? It’s made of the most valuable ores in the game. It’s just a waiting game then. You just wait for the blockade to get bored. After that, move along, if out of fuel, wait for them to leave. All you gota do is be patient. Then call up a local for some fuel… I don’t see very many people just up and willing to give up their capital ship, especially a small group. You can make a fortune just selling the thing…. You can block the hangar? So, you have to do this permanently? They just wait for you to stop? And you return?…. Seeing as how ccap ships can’t be damaged. The only time it would lack it’s integrity is an upgrade. I don’t see people doing that in the middle of space somewhere. I think that will be done on a station mostly… everything you have said does not sound effective enough to change the end result in the long run. Because that’s the reaction I would have if my cap ship was in any of those situations. Im not abandoning ship.
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I'm not sure what is being removed or what you think is being removed, but in Alpha stage game development it is not uncommon, actually even likely, that what seem to be important things get removed, replaced or completely reworked for any number of reasons.
While SB may be a live game, it is still a live game IN ALPHA .. shit will happen and will happen again.. at least for the next year or so.
How would you come to that conclusion, there is not a single indication this is the case? I'd say the main function of the two types of Capitals are pretty clearly defined in the video about them. The mechanics defining how they operate may be tweaked and change, but the function they have won't. What "incentives" did you find to validate your opinion?
Some also seem to think that CCaps will allow players to transport everything they have around the universe risk free. I tried to find any official source for that but could not locate anything. I have not found any reference to unlimited storage for CCaps.
Caps do not "fly around". They fast travel from one place to the next and will require quite some time to be able to make such a jump again. especially Ccaps do nothing but transport your productive ships and crew around, If you just "fly around" in your capital, you never get anything done.
And where did you get the information capitals will have "full-service factory zones"? If you take that from the "station Halls" section in OP, have you verified this is not misrepresented and asked for FB to clarify this? I would take that section as options related to (capital) ships on stations themselves where possible the "cargo hall" could apply to both. At the same time, it would be strange if Capitals would not have the option to craft/repair other ships and/or the capital itself.
Lastly, "flying around" a CCap will be expensive, I'd expect to the point where it being your "main base of operations" is not viable.
For a solo person a capital ship makes exactly zero sense as it is useless in that case, sure it may get you somewhere faster but then what? You still must get off the capital to achieve anything and thinking it will become meta for a solo player to jump a capital around to mine I'd say is at best unrealistic. It's a waste of time and investment. Sure, some will try and some of those that try will go there, but it will not do them any good and only make them lose time.
While a solo person may be able to build a smaller capital, I would also expect that this would require a massive amount of resources and (for a solo person) a lot of time... as in a _lot_. Obviously that will not stop some from trying and possibly even achieving it but from there, what use does a ship like this really serve for a solo person?
[QUOTE}A game with as many capital ships as active players is the inevitable result of the current direction.[/QUOTE}
I'm certain that will not happen, you are just talking yourself into a mindset that will never be realistic IMO.
While SB may be a live game, it is still a live game IN ALPHA .. shit will happen and will happen again.. at least for the next year or so.
How would you come to that conclusion, there is not a single indication this is the case? I'd say the main function of the two types of Capitals are pretty clearly defined in the video about them. The mechanics defining how they operate may be tweaked and change, but the function they have won't. What "incentives" did you find to validate your opinion?
Some also seem to think that CCaps will allow players to transport everything they have around the universe risk free. I tried to find any official source for that but could not locate anything. I have not found any reference to unlimited storage for CCaps.
Caps do not "fly around". They fast travel from one place to the next and will require quite some time to be able to make such a jump again. especially Ccaps do nothing but transport your productive ships and crew around, If you just "fly around" in your capital, you never get anything done.
And where did you get the information capitals will have "full-service factory zones"? If you take that from the "station Halls" section in OP, have you verified this is not misrepresented and asked for FB to clarify this? I would take that section as options related to (capital) ships on stations themselves where possible the "cargo hall" could apply to both. At the same time, it would be strange if Capitals would not have the option to craft/repair other ships and/or the capital itself.
Lastly, "flying around" a CCap will be expensive, I'd expect to the point where it being your "main base of operations" is not viable.
For a solo person a capital ship makes exactly zero sense as it is useless in that case, sure it may get you somewhere faster but then what? You still must get off the capital to achieve anything and thinking it will become meta for a solo player to jump a capital around to mine I'd say is at best unrealistic. It's a waste of time and investment. Sure, some will try and some of those that try will go there, but it will not do them any good and only make them lose time.
While a solo person may be able to build a smaller capital, I would also expect that this would require a massive amount of resources and (for a solo person) a lot of time... as in a _lot_. Obviously that will not stop some from trying and possibly even achieving it but from there, what use does a ship like this really serve for a solo person?
[QUOTE}A game with as many capital ships as active players is the inevitable result of the current direction.[/QUOTE}
I'm certain that will not happen, you are just talking yourself into a mindset that will never be realistic IMO.
Your CCAP cannot be sieged.
If you are referring to sieging a station that *happens* to have a CCAP in the dock and that CCAP owner negligently and foolishly *chooses* to not remove it from the dock before the siege, then, sure, I suppose that's possible.
If you think the "no blind warping" or fuel considerations will be anything that affects 99.9% of capital ships in most situations, either you or I are out of touch.