State of SB - An Alpha player's point of view.

[Saltylelele]

DISCLAIMER:
I am a day-1 alpha player, and racked up 1700+hrs on the alpha build. I have 300+ hours on the main game. Why this little? I'll get into that in a bit.
Everything here will be influenced by previous experience with the game and Frozenbyte.

Second; I am not a native English speaker / writer, so some stuff could have odd wording. Feel free to let me know if I can say it in a less jank way!


Introduction
Welcome to this far-too-long thread! In this thread I will be addressing the current state of the game, progression speed, communication and some other small talking points. I will be calling out some serious (to me) mistakes that FB has made, but also what (used to) go well.

State of Starbase: Pre-EA Launch
Before the launch of EA, several polls were held whether or not the game would be ready to release. From literally 80% of people I know I got word they found the game NOT ready in the current state. To absolutely no-one's surprise, it was not.

Now, I do want to mention something I loved about the Alpha: Transparency. If anything was up, we knew it pretty much instantly (with some exceptions ofc), and we could expect a fix within a reasonable amount of time (Besides missiles/torps, they to this day are still F'ed). This, together with their attempts to keep us busy were great about a time where there was even less content than now.

What I also learned however is that Frozenbyte has a tendency to sometimes completely ignore community ideas. While I can understand that to some extend, some pretty basic ideas were pitched which could have improved the game, or even the EA launch. Some of these suggestions includes the constant push to get some features properly tested before release, the regular suggestion to not keep these impossible deadlines and so on.

State of Starbase: Launch
Oh boy this was it's own kind of disaster. Launch was messy to say the least, but I cannot completely sh!t on them for that, as it tends to be a mess all the time for a lot of games. What I can complain about is the stupid amount of bugs on launch (EBM being non-functional, crafting being jank, research tree missing a ton of stuff etc). This SHOULD have been tested FAR better, and it is not like they did not have the people to do so (Alpha testers).

Now, here comes the handling of these issues. They were found, and while some smaller bugs were fixed, game-breaking ones were left in, with even some absolutely broken ones STILL existing to this day (See any station ever). The reply on how to deal with some of those is also really not great.

State of Starbase: Post-Launch
Ah, the time we are in right now! Would be somewhat better right? right..? Yeah, about that.. As you can see, all major content updates have been delayed (what a surprise) and guess what? The moon bases got pushed AGAIN! So much for close to done..

Now, that is annoying, but not the end of the world. What is just plain stupid is the fact that we have had absolutely nothing new since launch, and are still stuck dealing with a stupid amount of bugs that completely break the game. To name a few:

• Ore transfers, while *fixed* are still somewhat broken.
• Hinges / sliders / arms randomly fall off your ship.
• Station (parts) duplicate themselves if enough people are around.
• Company chat is limited to a very low number, and as you can guess, that causes issues for large corps.

This is just a short list, and obviously there is more, but I cannot be assed to list all of those. I need to add, before someone decides to throw the "bUt ItS iN aLpHa StAtE" to me; I am aware that the game is in alpha state, but even the Alpha build had a quicker turn-around time on bugs.

Now, here comes the other big annoyance: Transparency and how issues are being dealt with. See this screenshot regarding the ore stack bug below:

Essentially it is telling you to just delete stacks if they do not work. That is NOT a proper way to deal with this issue guys. I am not deleting ore because of a stupid bug, causing me to get even more stuck into the mining loop then I already was.

This, and more has been going on recently, and is a big step back from what FB used to be like in Alpha. Do I think FB can make Starbase a good game? Sure. Do I think they can do it like this? Hell no. So far we have been thrown statements, reports (with sometimes stupidly long times for something that *should* not be that impossible), video's all to essentially distract me from the absolute disaster that is the game. I have not enjoyed many minutes of my 300hrs on the EA build so far, and have stopped playing for now.

Will I return? That depends. Will FB finally hold up their promises, or learn to actually set realistic goals? If that happens, sure. Otherwise? Probably not.

Closing Thoughts
Starbase is currently partially dead to me. I had reasonably faith before EA, but now that I have seen their real side I do not know whether or not I still have that faith. It might succeed at some point down the line, but this is just plain nothing. I have nothing against anyone personally in Frozenbyte, but their image to us has changed a lot since EA launch, and most definitely not for the better. It is sad to see this go this way, considering how much I loved the alpha, but this is not a game. This is at best a mining simulator, at worst, a completely broken E3 Tech demo.

At this point in time I cannot recommend Starbase to new players anymore, and will not do so until Frozenbyte gets their stuff in order. Either by setting proper deadlines, or by actually meeting current ones. On top of that, a change of the approach to us, the community would be nice too.


Whew! That's a long thread. Feel free to discuss this all below!

 

[Chucktheninja]

Just pointing out 300 hours in the last 2 months is not a small amount of time. Assuming you get 8 hours of sleep that's 1/3 of your waking hours every single day. I assume by "main game" you mean after EA release.

 

[La_fleur_]

The game is not dead. The game is just not ready at this stage. The next major update will seriously revive the game. Since many will fly to the moon, factories and capital ships will be built. And there will be a lot of PVP. Ore will now not only have to be mined, but also to fight for it, transport it, protect it. This will just be the beginning of the variety of the game. The game should have been released a year later in 2022

 

[Saltylelele]

Just pointing out 300 hours in the last 2 months is not a small amount of time. Assuming you get 8 hours of sleep that's 1/3 of your waking hours every single day. I assume by "main game" you mean after EA release.

It is a very long time yeah. With Main I indeed mean EA release.

The game is not dead. The game is just not ready at this stage. The next major update will seriously revive the game. Since many will fly to the moon, factories and capital ships will be built. And there will be a lot of PVP. Ore will now not only have to be mined, but also to fight for it, transport it, protect it. This will just be the beginning of the variety of the game. The game should have been released a year later in 2022

My problem wiht this update is the fact that while this introduces new stations and locations, Sieging and anything to keep people engaged still is not here. For example, on the PTU. Once I had set up the station, sprinkled in a factory hall or two I was kinda done. Yes, you have infinite supplies there, but stations arent known to be stupidly expensive.

 

[blazemonger]

I have no idea what the OP was expecting but:

Starbase _has not launched yet_. It entered early access IN ALPHA. It seems OP really does not understand this and expects a "game" to exist at this time. It can be argued whether opening up to early access was a good idea, personally I think it may have been better to wait, not because of the state of the game but because too many people will and clearly do just not want to understand what they sign up for.

Should you recommend people to buy into Starbase at this time? As I see it, that depends on their mindset. If they want to play the game, get the experience then no, they should wait for at least Beta, probably release. If they are willing to deal with quirks, bugs, issue, delays and any number of issues at any given time due to the fact THE GAME IS IN ALPHA STAGE GAME DEVELOPMENT, then sure.. go ahead...

Basically, if you question whether you should recommend the game then you should not. You should also not talk about the game or dismiss it though and that, again, just comes from having the wrong expectations.

It will take years for the game to get to a somewhat polished state, we're just getting under way and this is not a sprint or even a race.

If you argue that it would be better for the game to stay in closed development for the next two or so years, then I'd be inclined to agree. It's tough for devs to set the correct expectations and maintain them and the context and tone of OP is a prime example of why. IMO FB did not fail; they did not make mistakes in development. They fell for the same thing many devs fall for, expecting people to understand where they are. People will not, no matter how many times you state the game is in alpha. Your average Joe simply has no idea what that means or how that impacts their gameplay.

If you feel the game is not there yet, step away, give it time and sit the next 1.5-2 years out. Doing so will clear a lot of noise and allow those that will be able to support and participate in Alpha development to be heard and work with the devs to get the game towards actual launch/release.

 

[Venombrew]

here is the thing everyone keeps forgetting BEYOND the fact that this is not even a game you could call a game yet because its maybe a 10th(if that) of the way forward for what it will have in 1.0.

Frozenbyte has been spending tons of their own money to produce this game for the last 5-6 year. they have their own engine, and if you are familiar with development and understand what that means, you would applaud them! but that still cost a very good amount of money, they also own their own servers. again this is an applauding moment, because these 2 elements is actually what screws over almost all companies trying to get started. renting another companies engine is very costly, but worse is getting the rights to adjust the engine for your game, when it wasn't originally specified for your game alone. that ends up being big big money, same with having to rent servers which they don't do. While this now saves them money, in the beginning both of these elements which is crucial to an online game was very costly to do so. then they have a couple 100 employees that frankly expect to be paid for their work, strange huh. Cost of their offices and tools needed to do so, which btw constantly keeps coming up, because software that was being used 5 years ago, not being used today, meaning to pay someone to come up with this stuff or spend tons of money leasing 3rd party programs which they still probably have to do.

now stretch this out over 5-6 years, a lot of money just for the game to get where it is now... a lot of money. Then we delay EA almost a year, at one point they needed an EA release for the pure funding that is needed to keep producing what EVENTUALLY be a game. They are not the US Govt and can print whatever money they need when they need it. Knowing all that above should be one hell of a insight on the pure fact that this is still an EARLY DELVEOPMENT PROJECT! This will not be actual game until the day it says, 1.0, until then it is a WORK IN PROGRESS, one that may never see completion, right there in the first 2 lines of the EA Warning before buying.

 

[Cavilier210]

I know there's a long way to go, but I do think the devs priorities are screwy. You want faction functionality to be high on the list, if not mostly done, before any release of an MMO type game, but thats not there, and thats probably what irks me the most. Next on the list are that stations seemed to have gone backwards, and easy build mode is a regression with far too much focus paid to it. The station building of CA was much better.

We have no way to sense other players than with our eyes, and in a PvP focused game, where churning through ships is the focus of the economy, this is a crappy state of affairs. All of this fluff and feature creep is routinely in the weekly updates, but nothing about sensors. Lauri says they're coming, but they're not even past the design stage, while moons have almost reached completion. A feature that wasn't supposed to originally arrive until past where we are right now.

The devs have suffered significant feature creep, and a mess of prioritization. I feel like I was sold something completely different than what we've got.

While I like the devs, and have had talks with many of them, and I do think eventually the game will get where it needs to be, it won't be for a long time. The priorities are goofy. The new features like moons and capital ships (don't get me started on caps) seem to have been heavily invested in while basics of the game have been left by the wayside. Great features have been dumbed down to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Easy build mode is not fun, and its not going to retain players better than having combat and features related to accomplishing meeting the enemy, and taking them down. Time to kill is another problem. Its far too short for the larger combatants.

There is a lot wrong at the moment. It all takes time, but I've personally mentioned all of these issues before. I'm also not the only one. I was sold a PvP centered game with incentives to play in a group. What I have is a game that increasingly caters to the solo militant pacifist.

 

[HardworkingSlacker]

TL;DR
The Game has big issues, alpha state doesn't excuse them, Easy Build Mode is bad, FBs priorities seem to be way off, safe zones are too large.

Starbase _has not launched yet_

In the eyes of the customers, this game has launched yet. It even explicitely says it in the Early Access Launch Trailer.
Also, please give us a break with your "arguments" like "You are expecting this game to be finished while it obviously isn't. You just did not read what you were signing up to!". As if anybody posting feedback/complaints in this forum right now, two (2!) months after launch, is actually just a disappointed and illiterate new player suffering from buyers regret. They do not exist anymore on this forum and have migrated to another game weeks ago.
The people posting here are actually trying to give feedback based on the fact that it is in a very early state (OP mentioned that) and that they see problems so grave that even the it-is-an-alpha-argument does not excuse them anymore. Yes, the game might eventually be in good shape after three years or so but what does it matter if nobody wants to play it anymore? There are problems in this game that are not excusable through its alpha state!
Also, if you are not allowed to voice criticism bEcAuSe iT iS iN aLpHa, how is the game supposed to evolve in a preferable direction?

if you are familiar with development and understand what that means, you would applaud them!

Personally, I agree with most things you said. However, I only agree because I am actually familiar with development.
If I was just a simple customer I would not give a damn about anything you mentioned in your post. And the reason for it is just pure ignorance. The average customer just wants to get what he (in his eyes) paid for. He does not care about anything that is going on in the background. And if he does not get the feeling that his expectations are met, he is not going to be satisfied and much less going to recommend the game to anybody else.
It might sound pathethic, but the cold hard truth about the video game market is that it is just one of the most unforgiving places you can imagine. Players seem to have (at first glance) absurd expectations of what the game is supposed to be and that is a huge obstacle for developers because it is (nigh) impossible to live up to the customers standards (Obsidian Ant explained it rather well in this video).
I would not be surprised if this game ultimately failed because of the botched Early Access but let's hope for the best!

I feel like I was sold something completely different than what we've got.

This seamlessly follows up the previous paragraph and is one of the core problems I myself can identify. What good is Easy Build Mode if nobody asked for it? Customers will not pay for a feature they didn't ask for and do not want. I think that Frozenbyte (like so many others) is making the mistake to actually think they know better than the customers what they want. And this is not to say that they should not have tried, obviously. Sometimes you need to take a risk, but currently it seems like they are clinging onto that unpopular feature and want to get it done no matter what just because they already put so much work into it. In that case, it would be a classic sunken cost fallacy. My biggest issue is that EBM should have just been integrated into the actual Space Ship Designer.

Just import the modules that are used for EBM and make it possible to load existing ships into the designer (the drive in feature that they are talking about), voilà, you have successfully integrated EBM into SSC and get the best of both worlds. As of right now, I would say, scrap EBM, use whatever is available already from closed alpha for station building and later capital ship docks but I have my doubts that this is even possible to do anymore.

Priorities are another big issue. I know it is way easier said than done, but you need to finish one thing first before starting on another. This is especially important for keeping the product cycle going and with it players/customers interest in the game. We are starving for a new update right now and especially with that ambitious road map our expectations are high...

Also, I think that this game needs a reasonably stable population. And that I think is achieved best by (at least partially) catering to their needs and wishes (again, being customer-centric). And if the core playerbase signed up to the game expecting it to feature PVP content, EVEN if it technically is not the intended focus of the game, Frozenbyte should at least consider prioritizing these demands.

And don't get me started on safezones. Holy sh!t, a 1000x220x100 km^3 safespace?! That's an ellipsoid with about 11,519,173 km^3 of entirely safe space with a surface area of 412,039 km^2 which is just impossible to patrol even if we had 100.000 active Players (A bold statement, I know). Roughly, one third of it is in the belt providing such a plethora of resources that it would take forever to deplete it.
Even without the devs refilling it nobody would ever have an incentive (at least from an economic standpoint) to leave this "free cash zone". And even if it was completely depleted some day in the far future, the safe zone would still be so vast that the chances of encountering pirates at 50+km from origin would virtually be 0 so the belt is practically a completely player-safe space right now.

Well, I have to stop here because its getting way to long. I hope I was able to make my points.

 

[Geronimo553]

The game is not dead.

Very debatable. The game is not dead. Everyone has just left.

http://imgur.com/ITVcsHB

 

[fingers_]

When you get people in your game.......And you continue on YOUR roadmap and ignore the community feedback about ways to imrpove the game.....

You focus on feature over QOL for players playing the game complaining about bugs.... The above image occurs!!

It still amazes me to date that game companies misunderstand how games / gamers work!

Community, is driven by the gamers driving gamers to your game.....If you ignore your gamers you destroy your game!

Some of the biggest successful games to date were free games that had friends get other friends to get the game! I got the game because a friend recommended the game.....I left the game because of QOL....

Didn't enjoy driving 2 hours to mine asteroids for my ship to depawn and leave me in spawn and not be recoverable and after all those attempts to get it back....Grinding also push close to 400 hours I got sick of it and left, then they left, and then their friends etc........

Producing ships and bases in this game should be as easy! As easy can be! Why? Because it encourages PVP, action, excitement, exploration which builds community and drags more into the game building dynamics, unique ideas and it snow balls.

Ill revist in 6 months time probably....If ship building becomes easier and there is a bunch of new content, but guys....if in 6 months time this game isn't where it was when launched and fixed, ship building aint easier, not limited by bolts / cables etc, the qol issues not resolved.....the game will be dead in 6 months more....sorry truth of it.

 

[La_fleur_]

Very debatable. The game is not dead. Everyone has just left.

http://imgur.com/UtsIfkS

This is because the game is not ready. There is no normal immersion of new players in the game. It is difficult for players to resist, they get lost in the universe of the game and cannot continue playing. It will take years before the situation changes

 

[Saltylelele]

I have no idea what the OP was expecting but:

Starbase _has not launched yet_. It entered early access IN ALPHA. It seems OP really does not understand this and expects a "game" to exist at this time. It can be argued whether opening up to early access was a good idea, personally I think it may have been better to wait, not because of the state of the game but because too many people will and clearly do just not want to understand what they sign up for.

Should you recommend people to buy into Starbase at this time? As I see it, that depends on their mindset. If they want to play the game, get the experience then no, they should wait for at least Beta, probably release. If they are willing to deal with quirks, bugs, issue, delays and any number of issues at any given time due to the fact THE GAME IS IN ALPHA STAGE GAME DEVELOPMENT, then sure.. go ahead...

Basically, if you question whether you should recommend the game then you should not. You should also not talk about the game or dismiss it though and that, again, just comes from having the wrong expectations.

It will take years for the game to get to a somewhat polished state, we're just getting under way and this is not a sprint or even a race.

If you argue that it would be better for the game to stay in closed development for the next two or so years, then I'd be inclined to agree. It's tough for devs to set the correct expectations and maintain them and the context and tone of OP is a prime example of why. IMO FB did not fail; they did not make mistakes in development. They fell for the same thing many devs fall for, expecting people to understand where they are. People will not, no matter how many times you state the game is in alpha. Your average Joe simply has no idea what that means or how that impacts their gameplay.

If you feel the game is not there yet, step away, give it time and sit the next 1.5-2 years out. Doing so will clear a lot of noise and allow those that will be able to support and participate in Alpha development to be heard and work with the devs to get the game towards actual launch/release.

I am damn well in what state the game was launching, better yet, I was one of the people that voted that they should have waited in Alpha. However, witht he annoucnement that they were launching I expected them to handle things in a reasonable way, like how most things in Alpha were handled.

This, however, did not happen. They've been steamrolling most if not all their time on new features, which i can understand, especially considering the delays. But if you go on the main game, and looka t a station; do you really think they are stable? I am still hearing daily reports come in about factory halls just deleting stuff, stations doing werid things, EBM being ass etc.

That makes me wonder: With all those new features relying on exactly those things, how would those be impacted.

 

[Saltylelele]

Just import the modules that are used for EBM and make it possible to load existing ships into the designer (the drive in feature that they are talking about), voilà, you have successfully integrated EBM into SSC and get the best of both worlds. As of right now, I would say, scrap EBM, use whatever is available already from closed alpha for station building and later capital ship docks but I have my doubts that this is even possible to do anymore.

Last I checked EBM caused them stupid amounts of delays on anything really. It was not tested, and pretty much everyone hates it.
This was brought up in Alpha chats as well, how not a lot of people would like the idea. But hey, FB did FB things and here we are.

On the topic of removing it. KNowing how some bugs used to be fixed, there is a very real chance they can no longer do that at this stage without breaking at least 10 other things

 

[Cavilier210]

Maybe they'll integrate it into the SSC like someone else said.

 

[Throdnk]

Let's hope FB doesn't run out of coffee.

 

[Venombrew]

EBM always(with its problems) designed to be for players more like myself who have no true desire to build ships. Thats what i figured EBM was suppost to be for players like myself who were looking for a quick piece together ship, mainly due to pvp incidents, but with the use of basic material around origin. You dont run bolts on the ship, you dont run cable or any lines at all, which would be perfect again for a player like me to piece basic ships together with the premade modules(like legos you can only build so many ways with prebuilt modules). The standard way was for players really looking to dive into the true mechanics of crafting a ship from every beam, to every bolt and cable. Their only limitation was knowledge and their own imaginations(considering the system was bug safe to do so).

 

[blazemonger]

This, however, did not happen. They've been steamrolling most if not all their time on new features,

No, they have not. What "features" have been introduced? I mean, most of the time so far has been spent on adjusting some balance issuees to bring the gameplay that is in to a level it can be controlled. All I am seeing is game mechanics coming in intheir initial iteration, a lot of which can and will stil lchange. Many are already complaining and making assumptions and setting their expectations based on nothing but a few words in announcements and on the roadmap.

Everything I see leads me to believe FB is doing this right. They are laying the groundwork, much of which we do not see, and will over the next few months roll out early versions of some core mechanics in game. There is no point in fixing issues you know wil lneed to be revisited again anyway once a major new mechanic comes into the game. What you do is you put it on the "to do list" for when you are at that point as doing it twice is actually a waste of resources.

Now, once more, If you argue that it woudl have been better to keep the developement closed until they were further along then sure, I can see that point. At the same time though, I think they needed some fresh blood to come in, get a fresh perspective and feedback. And if that comes with some revenue, even better. Some will not like what they see and put the game on the back burner. That is fine. Others may not like it and just decided to let the game sit for another year or two. Also fine.

From what I see, it will be at least another year before a somewhat clear picture will exist of where the game will go. I see enough from FB to believe they will get there in that timeframe. I certainly thinks they have a lot fo stuff in the pipeline we do not see or have knowledge of yet.

If you are unhappy with where the game is at then I get that, but I honestly do not think the arguments you make are valid ones. And you may not agree with that, but this is how I see it and I am just as much entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

 

[Chucktheninja]

Just import the modules that are used for EBM and make it possible to load existing ships into the designer (the drive in feature that they are talking about), voilà, you have successfully integrated EBM into SSC and get the best of both worlds. As of right now, I would say, scrap EBM, use whatever is available already from closed alpha for station building and later capital ship docks but I have my doubts that this is even possible to do anymore.

If the devs read anything from this thread, let it be this. EBM is a pointless feature because 95% of building is done in the designer. Anything outside of the designer is usually repairs, which EBM does nothing to help with. In space EBM serves no significant purpose. Edit: Other than for stations. The Jury is still out on caps since we don't have them yet.

 

[Throdnk]

EBM being a pointless feature (it isn't) for now would be the perfect reason to improve it by introducing significant changes to how it works, wouldn't it? And guess what, the devs are already planning on doing so and are actively working on it.

The whole discussion get's a bit annoying (to me as a random player, I assume to the devs as well) since the obvious momentary state is: Yeah it's broken, obviously. Be patient, they'll introduce significant changes that cannot be even judged given the implementation at this time. This applies to every single major part of the game by the way, not just EBM.

 

[Cavilier210]

We told them how broken tripods would be, they didn't listen, and now each one weighs as much as a tank...

We told them how broken civcaps would be and how limiting capital ships in general would be, and they started bouncing all over the place to save civcaps while not actually addressing the concerns given...

They introduced a tech tree, that no one actually wanted...

They introduced EBM without testing...

They forgot stations existed, instead focusing on the moons which weren't supposed to be in yet, even now...

How many more examples do we need of the devs kinda being a bit of a mess when it comes to quality and priority do you guys need to say "yeah? This is a problem"? I support these guys and they have indeed done some amazing things, but what they're working on is not whats important.

We need money sources. We need sensors. We need faction management. Sensors for combat have no details besides "radiation sensor" and is literally still on the drawing board. No specifics whatsoever.

Stations need to function before what amounts to a moving station is added in. Instead its all about the caps and very little on stations. Combat needs sensors, instead they add meaningless dev stations to fight over that you can't even obtain. Large ships need competitiveness. The weapons to make them competitive were so broken that they were made too heavy for anything save the largest ships.

Perhaps a time of reevaluation and reprioritization is in order. In my opinion.