Station rules of engagement

[Morrgard]

Whilst I quite like the sound of the system as a whole and I understand the need for defenders to be given enough time to respond to an attack, my concern with station raids taking days is this point by Vexus:



Basically, a large force is still going to be untouchable by a smaller force which will most likely rely on hit and run tactics. Numbers are always going to provide a natural advantage anyway, that's unavoidable but it's important not to ignore balancing gameplay for smaller groups in favour of zergs IMO.

I mean the larger forces would not be untouchable, and even if it were the case they would be strong enough, that is just a way to get some politics going between faction to help get rid of a common threat etc. So if anything it adds a challenge, a game element into it. I do hope we get a diplomacy screen of some sort, but still this way you could amass a larger force between a multitude of factions.

Also as per the safe zones they wont be untouchable completely still, and fearing an attack will always be a thing, considering there are many large groups with many members (Remains to see how many are active) but there are still many, so it wont be like there is one singular large faction reigning, there will be many wars and conflicts between them I'm 100% sure of that

 

[Strite]

I'd imagine there will be that small crowd who hates large groups and want small groups to have just as much power as the large groups in a sandbox mmo.
I say that because I've noticed a few around, they just aren't very vocal about it yet.

I think you'll be surprised to learn that it's anything but a small crowd. A good chunk of the playerbase will be solo players and smaller groups as is always the case in these kinds of games. I don't think it's fair to say we're advocating that us smaller groups have just as much power as the larger groups (and honestly, putting it that way does come across as a little bit patronising...) because, as I said previously, numbers will always provide a natural advantage anyway. With that said, catering purely to larger groups when it comes to game balance and mechanics has crippled games like this in the past. It's always going to be difficult to balance small group play vs. larger group play, but that doesn't mean that the attempt shouldn't be made.

 

[Morrgard]

I'd imagine there will be that small crowd who hates large groups and want small groups to have just as much power as the large groups in a sandbox mmo.
I say that because I've noticed a few around, they just aren't very vocal about it yet.

There will always be that set of people, but it would not really be fair for a larger group who has obviously worked hard to attain larger member counts to become as powerful as a much smaller faction either.

That's the reason why there are bigger and smaller factions, there's a different amount of work put into the backbone of the guild.

And so, in turn, it would not be fair to just de-power larger factions for the sake of smaller instead of opting for diplomacy between smaller factions to become more numerous by alliances to attack that one said faction, etc. It's just more elements to the game to consider this way

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

I think you'll be surprised to learn that it's anything but a small crowd. A good chunk of the playerbase will be solo players and smaller groups as is always the case in these kinds of games. I don't think it's fair to say we're advocating that us smaller groups have just as much power as the larger groups (and honestly, putting it that way does come across as a little bit patronising...) because, as I said previously, numbers will always provide a natural advantage anyway. With that said, catering purely to larger groups when it comes to game balance and mechanics has crippled games like this in the past. It's always going to be difficult to balance small group play vs. larger group play, but that doesn't mean that the attempt shouldn't be made.

Oh don't get me wrong I do know there are small groups and solo players thats totally fine, I just mean there are a select few who will end up advocating for the limitation of larger groups.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

There will always be that set of people, but it would not really be fair for a larger group who has obviously worked hard to attain larger member counts to become as powerful as a much smaller faction either.

That's the reason why there are bigger and smaller factions, there's a different amount of work put into the backbone of the guild.

And so, in turn, it would not be fair to just de-power larger factions for the sake of smaller instead of opting for diplomacy between smaller factions to become more numerous by alliances to attack that one said faction, etc. It's just more elements to the game to consider this way

I do hope to see diplomacy and politics be a key part of factional warfare and interaction.

 

[Strite]

Oh don't get me wrong I do know there are small groups and solo players thats totally fine, I just mean there are a select few who will end up advocating for the limitation of larger groups.

Ah sorry, I thought you were basically just calling all solo players and small groups peasants Yeah, you can't completely balance small groups vs. larger groups and that's fine. Large groups will have more activity so it makes sense that smaller groups won't be as effective against them. I just worry about catering exclusively to large groups in general, as we've seen it happen with other games and that can be damaging for a large portion of the playerbase.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Ah sorry, I thought you were basically just calling all solo players and small groups peasants Yeah, you can't completely balance small groups vs. larger groups and that's fine. Large groups will have more activity so it makes sense that smaller groups won't be as effective against them. I just worry about catering exclusively to large groups in general, as we've seen it happen with other games and that can be damaging for a large portion of the playerbase.

Yeah it can depend wildly, but right now starbase seems like the sort of game where solo play may be really hard and small group play would limit the scope of what you could do. Large factions are where you'd go to experience most of the game, diplomacy, warfare, large scale trade and economics etc.

 

[Strite]

Yeah it can depend wildly, but right now starbase seems like the sort of game where solo play may be really hard and small group play would limit the scope of what you could do. Large factions are where you'd go to experience most of the game, diplomacy, warfare, large scale trade and economics etc.

People said the same about EVE, but I've seen small groups cripple larger groups infrastructure in that game so only time will tell Personally I don't like being part of large groups. A lot of the features you mentioned won't really interest everyone either. Large scale wars often end up being nothing but zergs, resulting in lag fest battles that don't offer the fun and intensity of smaller skirmishes. Trading and the economy can still be enjoyed by hardworking, smaller group focused purely on those aspects or solo players, maybe not to the extent of larger groups but they still have their place and as for politics... Well yeah, game politics aren't really my thing personally and I know a lot of solo players couldn't care less about those aspects of the game either.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

People said the same about EVE, but I've seen small groups cripple larger groups infrastructure in that game so only time will tell Personally I don't like being part of large groups. A lot of the features you mentioned won't really interest everyone either. Large scale wars often end up being nothing but zergs, resulting in lag fest battles that don't offer the fun and intensity of smaller skirmishes. Trading and the economy can still be enjoyed by hardworking, smaller group focused purely on those aspects or solo players, maybe not to the extent of larger groups but they still have their place and as for politics... Well yeah, game politics aren't really my thing personally and I know a lot of solo players couldn't care less about those aspects of the game either.

I'm quite your opposite, I love the larger scale occurrences such as wars, economic influencing and politics, its quite the challenge and its amazing to see what your group has achieved over time.

 

[Morrgard]

People said the same about EVE, but I've seen small groups cripple larger groups infrastructure in that game so only time will tell Personally I don't like being part of large groups. A lot of the features you mentioned won't really interest everyone either. Large scale wars often end up being nothing but zergs, resulting in lag fest battles that don't offer the fun and intensity of smaller skirmishes. Trading and the economy can still be enjoyed by hardworking, smaller group focused purely on those aspects or solo players, maybe not to the extent of larger groups but they still have their place and as for politics... Well yeah, game politics aren't really my thing personally and I know a lot of solo players couldn't care less about those aspects of the game either.

As long as fleet battles don't lag, I think it would be amazing. But Starbase offers so many different possibilities to players that you dont even need be part of the larger groups if you don't want too, as mentioned there's, trade, economical aspects, mining, other industrial or just jobs in general, skirmishing pirating & more.

So there will most likely be something for everyone

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

As long as fleet battles don't lag, I think it would be amazing. But Starbase offers so many different possibilities to players that you dont even need be part of the larger groups if you don't want too, as mentioned there's, trade, economical aspects, mining, other industrial or just jobs in general, skirmishing pirating & more.

So there will most likely be something for everyone

We can all hope for not broken performance.

 

[Strite]

I'm quite your opposite, I love the larger scale occurrences such as wars, economic influencing and politics, its quite the challenge and its amazing to see what your group has achieved over time.

And that's the beauty of games like this, they attract all kinds of players Larger wars are often what get written about and remembered most for sure. I don't play EVE anymore, but I still read EVE related articles when I see them posted on gaming sites as I find them really interesting to read and more often than not they tell of the rise and fall of large corporations or yet another null-sec exchange. They make for great stories, I just know from experience that for the individual players it's not always the most fun gameplay. I've lost track of how many battles I've been in with heavy time dilation that have resulted in me crashing to desktop in EVE, definitely fun times but can be extremely frustrating also.

But yeah, it's great that we'll both get to play the game in our own way. Afterall, that's the strength of MMO's and online games in general.

 

[Morrgard]

We can all hope for not broken performance.

Seeing how it is done in instances it will be a lot up to player's too, not building any crazy things.

And if anything besides lag I really hope to not see dogs, chickens and other replicas of sci-fi ships & animals haha, I hope to see some originality from players.

Obviously, I prefer sci-fi replicas rather than space animals, but id rather not see either of them for fleet battles. (Inspiration by sci-fi ships is alright, dont get me wrong!)

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Seeing how it is done in instances it will be a lot up to player's too, not building any crazy things.

And if anything besides lag I really hope to not see dogs, chickens and other replicas of sci-fi ships & animals haha, I hope to see some originality from players.

Obviously, I prefer sci-fi replicas rather than space animals, but id rather not see either of them for fleet battles. (Inspiration by sci-fi ships is alright, dont get me wrong!)

I don't like seeing replicas, mainly because I never understood the point of going into a brand new universe with its own lore and trying to bring in ships from elsewhere.

 

[Morrgard]

I don't like seeing replicas, mainly because I never understood the point of going into a brand new universe with its own lore and trying to bring in ships from elsewhere.

Yea exactly! Anyway back on topic, station rules of engagement.


I'm just curious.. because I think with the station's safe zone and that. Because I believe Lauri or some other developer mentioned that there was going to be no protection for military ships... So if they are in the safe zone.. can they still be hit? Will the safe zone take the appearance of a shield and protect what's within it..?

I'm unsure, but I would love to see the boarding actions of stations moving in through corridors and such, hopefully, through the command deck, you have a way of sending out long-range communications to call for aid from selected factions & people.

 

[DrunkRussianBear]

Yea exactly! Anyway back on topic, station rules of engagement.


I'm just curious.. because I think with the station's safe zone and that. Because I believe Lauri or some other developer mentioned that there was going to be no protection for military ships... So if they are in the safe zone.. can they still be hit? Will the safe zone take the appearance of a shield and protect what's within it..?

I'm unsure, but I would love to see the boarding actions of stations moving in through corridors and such, hopefully, through the command deck, you have a way of sending out long-range communications to call for aid from selected factions & people.

My question is, what if you just use an unarmed boarding vessel.

 

[Morrgard]

My question is, what if you just use an unarmed boarding vessel.

That should be fine? I imagine by the time the zone goes down you just deploy troops to take it over, unclear if exterior turrets would be gone by then though

 

[Lionard Freezer]

Finally i know how safezones will probably work...
TY!

 

[Commissar Awesome]

I like the idea of station assaults taking days as opposed to hours. I really don't want to have to be on call at all hours to protect a station.
I really don't see a problem with regard to small vs. Large groups, this system would encourage small groups to create coalitions, which will make politics very interesting.

 

[Morrgard]

I like the idea of station assaults taking days as opposed to hours. I really don't want to have to be on call at all hours to protect a station.
I really don't see a problem with regard to small vs. Large groups, this system would encourage small groups to create coalitions, which will make politics very interesting.

That has been my idea too it as well, I know some people mentioned small groups being opposed to the system, but I would argue it only adds to the dynamic of seeing out other groups, making there be more goals rather than just singular factions going against one larger faction on their own.

This would simply just prompt more interaction and diplomacy, I don't see the bad in it, besides the larger groups have earnt the right to be a large group most likely by hard work, so it would not be entirely fair to change it up so that a small group would be as powerful as a large one when there are other in game options to make it work without even needing to change any of the features from what they were.