PVE is already failing...

Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
17
Sent me the proof that you made millions by staying in SZ with a starting ship (6-20 crates).:ROFLMAO:
Its seriously beyond your comprehension?

As in aswer above, you just methodicly changing to larger ship in several stages. Its matter of several days/week of active play. When 500-1000 laser miner is reached (probably by saving up and buying ready built one) -- its fast (one of the fastest in game) money making completly in SZ.
 

FLMNAG

Learned-to-sprint endo
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
21
I’m talking about beginners me, players who just turned on the game.

I have 3 friends who launched the game and uninstalled it after 3 hours because the whales ate all the asteroids of the SZ

The tutorial indicates a mining area 15 km away, it’s just bullshit
we come back to the same problem.
Whales remain in SZ because there is no juicy point of interest in PVP zone and you broke the gameplay of the new player.

It’s easy for you, you started the game with plenty of resources in SZ
 

CalenLoki

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
741
People will always work where it's the most efficient. So the problem lies in game design, not players (and current lack of certain features due to alpha stage).

We need to get veteran players out of Origin, so they don't strip mine there. Not relay on magically respawning noob-roids.
You can do everything at Origin, you can't do anything at player stations. Once that tendency get inverted, safe starter mining fields shall remain for noobs.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
1
I was looking for this thread to find out if this is a game for me.
Not about the bucks - I don't care to pay twice that money if it fits with my playstyle. But about my time.

So. As a beginner I have to have a ship accel. to 150m/s to be able to survive the outer rims - OR - I have to buy the dammed guns and stand the men or die trying, right ?

No, there is a SafeZone for the noobs !
Within the SZ though, anything fancy has been swallowed already and hence some reviews reporting about hours of searching for a good boulder and finally quit the game not progressing appropriately comparing to the predecessors ¿!


My conclusion. Always the same discussion. Some want to build, learn and grow. And the others want them to come out to have something to play & eat. All that while the game is slowly changing the conditions for new starters.


I'd like to add just one thing regarding PVP and PVE. If I have to spend 10h of gameplay to build a ship and my chance to loose it before benefitting is too high, the balance between the two, namely PVP and PVE, is not correct. There were such reviews telling that story.

Apart of that annoying thing, the game looks very interesting I admit.
 

J.D.

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
222
I was looking for this thread to find out if this is a game for me.
Not about the bucks - I don't care to pay twice that money if it fits with my playstyle. But about my time.

So. As a beginner I have to have a ship accel. to 150m/s to be able to survive the outer rims - OR - I have to buy the dammed guns and stand the men or die trying, right ?

No, there is a SafeZone for the noobs !
Within the SZ though, anything fancy has been swallowed already and hence some reviews reporting about hours of searching for a good boulder and finally quit the game not progressing appropriately comparing to the predecessors ¿!


My conclusion. Always the same discussion. Some want to build, learn and grow. And the others want them to come out to have something to play & eat. All that while the game is slowly changing the conditions for new starters.


I'd like to add just one thing regarding PVP and PVE. If I have to spend 10h of gameplay to build a ship and my chance to loose it before benefitting is too high, the balance between the two, namely PVP and PVE, is not correct. There were such reviews telling that story.

Apart of that annoying thing, the game looks very interesting I admit.
After you design that ship, yoi never have to design again, you permanently have the blueprint. Only need the resources, everything can be saved on bp. Even stations.
 
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shado20

Veteran endo
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
201
Within the SZ though, anything fancy has been swallowed already and hence some reviews reporting about hours of searching for a good boulder and finally quit the game not progressing appropriately comparing to the predecessors ¿!
what in heavens are you expecting to find in the safe zone, the small rocks are everywhere. there is a lot of rocks still in the safe-zone, ill go out after work and mine some more up with a 600+ crate ship.
 

Mutleyx

Veteran endo
Joined
May 22, 2020
Messages
146
We need something to encourage veteran players with big strip-miners to go further towards belt core instead, and leave SZ scraps for new players
That runs somewhat counter to the topic of this thread. Not everyone wants to go deeper in the the belt. But if you had said further around the belt, the problem still persists. The "sparse" zone is growing, and will continue to do so, forcing players to fly further each time to find fresh pastures. Ultimately, this will damage the casual player experience.
 

Mutleyx

Veteran endo
Joined
May 22, 2020
Messages
146
It’s all good… I see your concern, but I don’t think it was ever an intent to allow players to mine the rare ores without taking risk. They gota buy off the market, or take a risk. Placing rare ores inside the safe zone will break the game.
Oh yes, I entirely agree. Rares have no place in the SZ. They should be fully exclusive to PvP areas. Just bulk mining for high demand, high volume ores (bastium etc) should be SZ's miner's calling.
 

J.D.

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
222
Oh yes, I entirely agree. Rares have no place in the SZ. They should be fully exclusive to PvP areas. Just bulk mining for high demand, high volume ores (bastium etc) should be SZ's miner's calling.
Oh, ok. Well, cool then.. are you guys saying that you are running out of ores?
 

J.D.

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
222
idk, there are still a lot of rocks out there. Even if they are smaller, they are still there. Sure, it may take longer to mine, but I didn’t think the pve people would mind very much. Because they are just essentially either mining, or building. asking for resets ever couple of months because the big ones are gone seems really cheap. You know? It would also greatly affect the prices of those ores at the origin market if they kept resetting them. Supply would be heavy, and demand lessens with people leaving the sz, causing prices to very low lows. But, I also guess money might not be as big of a deal to these Pve types as much as having a collection of ore. I really don’t know though. That’s just what comes to mind when I take a step back and look at the situation in the long run if they were to reset every time the pve player base at origin gets upset.
 

Vanidar

Well-known endo
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
64
idk, there are still a lot of rocks out there. Even if they are smaller, they are still there. Sure, it may take longer to mine, but I didn’t think the pve people would mind very much. Because they are just essentially either mining, or building. asking for resets ever couple of months because the big ones are gone seems really cheap. You know? It would also greatly affect the prices of those ores at the origin market if they kept resetting them. Supply would be heavy, and demand lessens with people leaving the sz, causing prices to very low lows. But, I also guess money might not be as big of a deal to these Pve types as much as having a collection of ore. I really don’t know though. That’s just what comes to mind when I take a step back and look at the situation in the long run if they were to reset every time the pve player base at origin gets upset.
I agree 99.9%.

I do think that it's a shame that since Origin SZ mining is the most profitable, it's a multiplicative bad thing for the game. We have all the vets in their crazy-efficient 600 crate miners with 20 lasers stripmining when they should be incentivized to be further out and potentially taking more risk, so the game feels dead outside the SZ. Also, and more to the point, legitimate new players have to compete with those vets in their shitty ships.
 

J.D.

Veteran endo
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
222
I agree 99.9%.

I do think that it's a shame that since Origin SZ mining is the most profitable, it's a multiplicative bad thing for the game. We have all the vets in their crazy-efficient 600 crate miners with 20 lasers stripmining when they should be incentivized to be further out and potentially taking more risk, so the game feels dead outside the SZ. Also, and more to the point, legitimate new players have to compete with those vets in their shitty ships.
Maybe once we get stations all smoothed out and working, that issue will work itself out, hopefully. Another good option would be some of the new miners team up with some pvp guys to help find the big juicy targets so the little guys can survive. The pvp guys take out the whales, and help the shitty ships get better. I’ve really wanted to see a lot of groups who worked together in all aspects. A group with pvp, and pve working together to build an empire is where it’s at. I like small gang pvp too, of course. But, something these miners can also think about doing I guess
 
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LauriFB

Administrator
Moderator
Frozenbyte
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
212
We'll replenish some of the SZ asteroids with the next big update.

If SZ mining is overpowered it's more like balance issue and not like there's too much asteroids. If the problem is something else, like people just staying inside SZ, that requires the upcoming large features to be solved. We don't force people outside of SZ, we'll just give them enough incentive to do so.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
17
If SZ mining is overpowered it's more like balance issue and not like there's too much asteroids. If the problem is something else, like people just staying inside SZ, that requires the upcoming large features to be solved. We don't force people outside of SZ, we'll just give them enough incentive to do so.
There is super-simple and effective solution:

Disable mining lasers in Origin SZ, so newbiews can mine without problem on pickaxe level, while old greedy people will be forced out.
 

Tomasz

Well-known endo
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
63
There is super-simple and effective solution:

Disable mining lasers in Origin SZ, so newbiews can mine without problem on pickaxe level, while old greedy people will be forced out.
Why are you so fixated on SZ being efficient?
New players can go out of SF just as everyone else, its not some kind of murder zone , there is barely any chance of meeting anyone.At start i immediatelly wnet out and was quite annoyed that there is not much poit in leaving sZ becouse of how good it is inside.
 

AlexiyOne

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
85
I would like to chime in on this, and give my thoughts. I would like to start with the reasons on why I felt leaving the safezone will be better for me, even if it probably might not be as profitable as others have stated above, since safezone means safety, never worrying about losing ship, etc. I left the safezone to have access to ores needed for plasma thrusters, to be able to build larger ships so my faction can both expand, and have a way of quick and easy travel. I experienced crashing in asteroids, almost losing my ship due to a crash that resulted in many of the cables destroyed. But the thing that amazed me was, I have don't have had to worry about Pirates, I felt safe of leaving my ship outside the safezone, the thing I worried the most was actually about fuel, sure people may say that there just aren't enough players yet, but I think Pirates are just not having the tools to catch players nearby them.

So I would like to start my suggestions list, starting with tools for pirates.

1. There should be a radar for players, I think the idea is radiation scanners, but I think a tool that scans nearby energy from batteries for example would be a step in the right direction, sort of like that one episode in Clone Wars show where Anakin had to power down the ship so the droids wouldn't be able to scan them.

2.Ores should have purity rating which is another factor for mining asteroids, and I think that Safezone asteroids should have a lot more impurities rather than outside the safezone so that asteroids outside the safezone will have a higher cost due to having less impurity.

3.Shields for normal ships, not just capitals, I think players are just too scared of losing their own ship and don't see the benefit of leaving the safezone knowing that they probably need to make their ship a laser show to travel, I think a shield doesn't have to stop a railgun, but it should be available for ships, this will make PVP less about who has the cheapest ship to sacrifice, and instead who thought out their ship design more to have more energy left for shields, same for mining, if a player's ship has a shield it may remove the fear of mining, but I think to balance it, the shield if hit by an asteroid will have a longer recharge which doesn't allow the player to have the ability to afk mine knowing their shield will protect against everything.

These are just some of my thoughts on mining and forcing players to leave the safezone, maybe my ideas don't work properly, but happy to hear others thoughts on these ideas.
 

Vexus

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
280
Instancing a single asteroid for a player doing that section of the tutorial, giving them a special transponder-style point to go to, is probably a better solution than just mass-spawning a bunch of asteroids that will immediately be harvested by efficient miners; the problem of new players not seeing asteroids will just come back again. There seems to be a lack of foresight when it comes to solving problems right now. Problems should be solved and not waved over with some random change that has not had its impact fully weighed. I would like to comment on the "PvP station" nonsense, as it's the same kind of hand-waving non-fix as mass-spawning asteroids, but that's not for here.

One big issue I see regarding balance is the most profitable stuff in bulk is contained in the safe zone - Charodium - and nowhere else close. It's a requirement for all the upgraded and PvP stuff, but is found with near unlimited, free, no-risk supply inside the safe zone. This doesn't make sense. It should be at least in Zone 2 outside the safe zone, so you have to risk your ship to get PvP-related or upgrade-related stuff. As it stands, Charodium in the safezone is the main reason people don't want to go out. You can make a large 1000-crate hauler and mass-obtain all the stuff you need to make your PvP ships. If players are buying Charodium from other players, and Charodium is the main ore driving PvP, it should only be found outside the safe zone. Basically, the ore used the most for PvP should never be inside a safezone. PvE players should be happy to grind 1000 crates of safe zone Bastium and sell them to the NPC vendor for 1k per stack; that is PvE. As soon as the ore is listed on the auction house, it becomes economic PvP. Right now, PvP is fueled by no-risk mining in the safezone. There's no reason to leave.

Regarding the main post about so much area to explore, but being unable to as a PvE player, because it's risky... this is where the devs need to take a stand. The mindset is that the OP is "deprived" of this area. It's fully accessible; the deprivation is only in their mind. Making the game easier for players who take no risks doesn't succeed. Nowhere was Starbase listed as a PvE game; it has massive guns, lots of focus on ship and first-person combat, everything can be exploded and destroyed and broken in a dozen different ways, the trailers and feature videos show hundreds of ships fighting each other -- the tech designed by the dev team is for player-vs-player conflict-- - but somehow there's an idea creeping around that PvE is failing when it doesn't exist as a core component of the game. Safe zones are necessary as a reality of gameplay, to avoid spawn-camping basically. Beyond that, it's ok to tell people yes, it will be risky to go out into the game world, and yes, you might lose your ship, and yes, you will be ok if you lose your ship, and yes, this means you should join a large group to gain some safety in the game world.

"If you want to be part of the big content, you need to be part of a big group." This succeeds.
"You can do anything in the game with no risk all by yourself." This fails.

Everything should be seen through a lens of how to bring people together. The tools for this, like company management, company ships, a group setting where group members can invite other people so it's not just the owner who might be offline, transponder "frequencies" so people can see each other without revealing their position to everyone, and so much more, should be the focus.

Thinking about the future of the game, is it the intent that all the warp gates and all the stations and all the interesting stuff be linked with safe zones and safe-zone-guarded experience of all these things? There will never be a need for tech that allows 100 ships to fly together if everything can be done more profitably solo inside a safe zone. It is far more interesting to see what length players will go to in order to secure their existence in the game world.
 
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