I do see your point. But, was SB ever marketed as a second Minecraft, survival game or physics builder? I think from the promotional material it was fairly obvious conflict was going to figure large. Regardless, it at bit early for the "XYZ is failing" mantra isn't it? It's been what a month? If this situation has got you hand wringing, make sure you stay far far away from Dual Universe. Or, on second thought buy a 3 month sub for it. It will change your perception of Star Base's developement.
PVE is already failing...
- Thread starter Mutleyx
- Start date
I've solo'd thousands of hours on Ark official. it always ends painfully. But the experience was always memorable for me and i would rate myself upon the amount of resistance i was able to project against overwhelming odds. i'd often lose painfully, switch to another game (even tried ark pve server), get quickly bored and come back to ark for more pvp. Always solo, always lose to big tribe, but always getting stronger and lasting longer and eventually keeping a base on official for more than a year (was an awesome time).
I'm drawing this analogy to Ark to try and express to people who prefer PVE that without challenge or competition or risk, you will never really experience the feeling of full reward that is potentially available. I feel that the frozenbyte devs are not those that will coddle or hold the hands of their weak willed patrons, or they will risk PATRONIZING all the rest of us who came to this game for some space combat and a challenge.
I'm saying go out, get attacked. Remember it, get better at avoidance. Get better at defense, better yet go on the offence. Enjoy other avenues that the game presents. You can grind away the hours in any game, but if you take away the avenue for PVP to occur in this game i 100% guarantee you that the PVE will have no chance at survival AT ALL. There will be no purpose for it.
This discussion is seriously threatening to many of us who already see a trend toward the later. The graveyard is full of games that put their players in protective bubbles so they don't get upset. As a solo player i've traveled to 900kms 4 times and back safely and starting to have a parking garage of ships at my station. Some losses wouldn't be the worst thing ever. (shamelessly have to show my auto avoidance ship that yesterday travelled 1900kms of deeps space full throttle unassisted with 0 collisions. I call it The Emancer . max designer bay length)
BTW I lost my first Aphelios while floating back on a tether with a pick axe in my hands. ONE shot dead. They got my ship in pristine condition full of nhgerite and exorium and char. I immediately started laughing when it happened, because up to that point i'd been mining for 3 days (enough to buy 3 Aphelioses) without so much as bumping into anyone out in the "danger zone". Was not feeling there was any danger to it at all. I'm glad it happened, it was exciting and now i'm prepared for the next time... hopefully. But if i lose my ship again, it gives me something to work toward. Because as of now i've hit all my objective targets. i'm itching for some PVP and beginning to worry that i will never find it again.
I'm drawing this analogy to Ark to try and express to people who prefer PVE that without challenge or competition or risk, you will never really experience the feeling of full reward that is potentially available. I feel that the frozenbyte devs are not those that will coddle or hold the hands of their weak willed patrons, or they will risk PATRONIZING all the rest of us who came to this game for some space combat and a challenge.
I'm saying go out, get attacked. Remember it, get better at avoidance. Get better at defense, better yet go on the offence. Enjoy other avenues that the game presents. You can grind away the hours in any game, but if you take away the avenue for PVP to occur in this game i 100% guarantee you that the PVE will have no chance at survival AT ALL. There will be no purpose for it.
This discussion is seriously threatening to many of us who already see a trend toward the later. The graveyard is full of games that put their players in protective bubbles so they don't get upset. As a solo player i've traveled to 900kms 4 times and back safely and starting to have a parking garage of ships at my station. Some losses wouldn't be the worst thing ever. (shamelessly have to show my auto avoidance ship that yesterday travelled 1900kms of deeps space full throttle unassisted with 0 collisions. I call it The Emancer . max designer bay length)
BTW I lost my first Aphelios while floating back on a tether with a pick axe in my hands. ONE shot dead. They got my ship in pristine condition full of nhgerite and exorium and char. I immediately started laughing when it happened, because up to that point i'd been mining for 3 days (enough to buy 3 Aphelioses) without so much as bumping into anyone out in the "danger zone". Was not feeling there was any danger to it at all. I'm glad it happened, it was exciting and now i'm prepared for the next time... hopefully. But if i lose my ship again, it gives me something to work toward. Because as of now i've hit all my objective targets. i'm itching for some PVP and beginning to worry that i will never find it again.
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Really well said. +1. I also have a strange satisfaction when I'm on the losing end of a pvp encounter. I think I'm glad I'm seeing pvp happen, regardless of the outcome, and I look to it as a lesson and motivation to do better next time. Without that danger, everything seems a lot more pointless after a day or two.
FB really does have a challenge ahead of them in balancing their risk/reward equation. They seem very keen on providing areas with 100% safety accessible in all interesting areas of the universe (which will continue to proliferate with "civilian" capital ships) to those who detest pvp in any form, which in turn is providing safety for would-be-pvpers also, making the world outside of safe zones very empty. People are going to be motivated primarily by "progression" or a feeling of getting ahead of other players in MMOs typically, so most follow the path of least resistance and efficiency. Currently, that's mining the safe zone without any need to ever leave. In the future, I'm worried that safe zones will continue to be abused by not only the people that cannot stand risk, but those that enjoy risk but can also see that the risk is just simply not remotely worth it with all the safe options.
FB really does have a challenge ahead of them in balancing their risk/reward equation. They seem very keen on providing areas with 100% safety accessible in all interesting areas of the universe (which will continue to proliferate with "civilian" capital ships) to those who detest pvp in any form, which in turn is providing safety for would-be-pvpers also, making the world outside of safe zones very empty. People are going to be motivated primarily by "progression" or a feeling of getting ahead of other players in MMOs typically, so most follow the path of least resistance and efficiency. Currently, that's mining the safe zone without any need to ever leave. In the future, I'm worried that safe zones will continue to be abused by not only the people that cannot stand risk, but those that enjoy risk but can also see that the risk is just simply not remotely worth it with all the safe options.
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- Joined
- Sep 4, 2021
- Messages
- 61
So, after reading through this thread I have identified 3 major problems in this game.
First of all, there is the lack of incentive to venture out into "unsafe" space. It is pretty obvious where the main problem lies and that is with infinite and completly safe access to valuable resources. I understand that FB wants to create a safe space for beginners where they can learn the ropes and build up for the "real world" but I don't think that they should share that safe space with those who have already overcome the beginner stage. My suggestion would be to create an "Origin 0" Station where People can stay for as long as they want but only have access to the Labourer Module and a few basic ship parts to customize and upgrade their ship in easy build mode. They would have their own safe zone with access to Vokarium and Bastium and maybe a beginner PVP Space with Charodium in it. Their credit accounts would cap at a maximum of, say 100.000 Credits. When they feel ready for it, they may leave Origin 0.
The safe zones around the normal origin stations must get nerfed. I would say, strip it of all Charodium ore and all big asteroids. Most asteroids should be those "egg-shell" types that contain 2 stacks of ore at max with maybe a few "whole-egg"-types sprinkled around. As someone said, it should feel like collecting scraps. There will still be ways to efficiently mine in these areas with ships like the "world eater" supported by asteroid haulers and thats completely fine because his will serve the needs of PVE focussed players in a sufficient way imho. And it would incentivize P2P interaction for them as well.
These suggestions might be a general way of enticing players to leave the safe zone more frequently.
The second Problem is that "rare ores" are high in supply but low in demand. Just look at Karnite. Found at 650+km and sells for a measly ~4400 Credits. This is ridiculous! Nobody would ever think about taking a risk like this when Charodium sells for the same price (sometimes even more) and can be mined in total safety. We need more depth (And I mean way more!) for how materials work. They could have chemical property like density, brittleness, magnetism, hardness, etc. There are some basic attributes implemented already, yes (Good against energy/ballistic weapons) but we need a lot more than that. Alloys are a good step in the right direction but what I am talking about are ways to use chemical/material properties to their maximum efficency. I would like to be able to create not only specialized ships from certain materials but also to be able to craft or even design specialised ammunition types, warheads etc. based on the individual properties of a material (or alloy).
That way, I suppose, these materials would justify the risk of venturing out deep into unsafe space because there would be a steady demand for each and every type of material.
The third problem is pretty simple to grasp. This game is in early access. I suppose that most features that would make this game great are not implemented yet but people are treating the game like it was finished already. Of course it is empty, of course it feels barren and unfinished... because it is!
It will be some time (a few years at least) before this game can be considered finished. In the meanwhile, part of enjoying Starbase is witnessing the progress it makes each and every week. We will soon be able to marvel about capital ships, station sieges and moon mining, moon bases and factories. There is a lot that is still ahead of us. Just look at the roadmap and you will see what I mean .
So, I suggest we all look forward to the future of this game because it has a lot of potential still and I am excited about it.
If you read until here: Enjoy your day!
First of all, there is the lack of incentive to venture out into "unsafe" space. It is pretty obvious where the main problem lies and that is with infinite and completly safe access to valuable resources. I understand that FB wants to create a safe space for beginners where they can learn the ropes and build up for the "real world" but I don't think that they should share that safe space with those who have already overcome the beginner stage. My suggestion would be to create an "Origin 0" Station where People can stay for as long as they want but only have access to the Labourer Module and a few basic ship parts to customize and upgrade their ship in easy build mode. They would have their own safe zone with access to Vokarium and Bastium and maybe a beginner PVP Space with Charodium in it. Their credit accounts would cap at a maximum of, say 100.000 Credits. When they feel ready for it, they may leave Origin 0.
The safe zones around the normal origin stations must get nerfed. I would say, strip it of all Charodium ore and all big asteroids. Most asteroids should be those "egg-shell" types that contain 2 stacks of ore at max with maybe a few "whole-egg"-types sprinkled around. As someone said, it should feel like collecting scraps. There will still be ways to efficiently mine in these areas with ships like the "world eater" supported by asteroid haulers and thats completely fine because his will serve the needs of PVE focussed players in a sufficient way imho. And it would incentivize P2P interaction for them as well.
These suggestions might be a general way of enticing players to leave the safe zone more frequently.
The second Problem is that "rare ores" are high in supply but low in demand. Just look at Karnite. Found at 650+km and sells for a measly ~4400 Credits. This is ridiculous! Nobody would ever think about taking a risk like this when Charodium sells for the same price (sometimes even more) and can be mined in total safety. We need more depth (And I mean way more!) for how materials work. They could have chemical property like density, brittleness, magnetism, hardness, etc. There are some basic attributes implemented already, yes (Good against energy/ballistic weapons) but we need a lot more than that. Alloys are a good step in the right direction but what I am talking about are ways to use chemical/material properties to their maximum efficency. I would like to be able to create not only specialized ships from certain materials but also to be able to craft or even design specialised ammunition types, warheads etc. based on the individual properties of a material (or alloy).
That way, I suppose, these materials would justify the risk of venturing out deep into unsafe space because there would be a steady demand for each and every type of material.
The third problem is pretty simple to grasp. This game is in early access. I suppose that most features that would make this game great are not implemented yet but people are treating the game like it was finished already. Of course it is empty, of course it feels barren and unfinished... because it is!
It will be some time (a few years at least) before this game can be considered finished. In the meanwhile, part of enjoying Starbase is witnessing the progress it makes each and every week. We will soon be able to marvel about capital ships, station sieges and moon mining, moon bases and factories. There is a lot that is still ahead of us. Just look at the roadmap and you will see what I mean .
So, I suggest we all look forward to the future of this game because it has a lot of potential still and I am excited about it.
If you read until here: Enjoy your day!
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2021
- Messages
- 102
This is simply not the case as the safe zone only has the basic resources and some blips of the next tier. Anything beyond that needs to come from outside the safe zone (and does in pretty decent quantities).
The big, missed point here shows a lack of actually understanding people who do not enter PVP space. it also shows a very one-sided perspective where everything remotely of value must serve the PVP aspect of the game which simply is not a feasible or achievable goal for the very simple reason that it would not drive many players into the PVP space, it would drive them out of the game.
Not everyone wants to actively engage in PVP combat, not everyone wants to seek out conflict. Many will accept that chance/risk and those are the ones currently bringing higher tier ores into the trading stations. And frankly, they do so mostly unchallenged because the PVP population in game is vastly smaller than some would like to pretend it is.
Personally, I could not care less about PVP combat. I see it as a risk and understand I may encounter it but it's a calculated risk for me, not something I will engage in. If I get attacked, it's a run for the hills and if I get killed, ship is already replaced, and we write it off as a loss.
Thinking that living in PVP space should be a requirement and expecting the game to force that for everyone is about as big a misconception of the game as it gets. PVP is not the centre of the game around which everything else should revolve or what everything else should feed into. This is not an action PRG or FPS. it is a sandbox MMO and as such, choosing a non-combatant playstyle is entirely withing the scope of the game and a valid goal to pursue.
All this talk of "we want PVP", "we need things to do", "there is no content" .. Yet players are able to bring high tier ores to market an-mass and still make money. How come these transports are not caught? I can tell you why as we know exactly how to not get caught (so no, I won't tell you).
And here you are obviously entirely correct. The game is in early Alpha and too many are already screaming for stull which will not be available in any polished form for indeed another two years or so. Problem today is that a dev can post disclaimers all they want, people will just ignore them and expect a polished experience.
Your prior points though, will not benefit the game if they were considered or implemented. There must be the ability to play and enjoy the game without ever having to engage in PVP combat. If FB would turn the game into a PVP combat game it would not have a chance and join the ranks of the many other MMO sandbox games which saw devs try the same and fail.. hard.
The big, missed point here shows a lack of actually understanding people who do not enter PVP space. it also shows a very one-sided perspective where everything remotely of value must serve the PVP aspect of the game which simply is not a feasible or achievable goal for the very simple reason that it would not drive many players into the PVP space, it would drive them out of the game.
Not everyone wants to actively engage in PVP combat, not everyone wants to seek out conflict. Many will accept that chance/risk and those are the ones currently bringing higher tier ores into the trading stations. And frankly, they do so mostly unchallenged because the PVP population in game is vastly smaller than some would like to pretend it is.
Personally, I could not care less about PVP combat. I see it as a risk and understand I may encounter it but it's a calculated risk for me, not something I will engage in. If I get attacked, it's a run for the hills and if I get killed, ship is already replaced, and we write it off as a loss.
Thinking that living in PVP space should be a requirement and expecting the game to force that for everyone is about as big a misconception of the game as it gets. PVP is not the centre of the game around which everything else should revolve or what everything else should feed into. This is not an action PRG or FPS. it is a sandbox MMO and as such, choosing a non-combatant playstyle is entirely withing the scope of the game and a valid goal to pursue.
All this talk of "we want PVP", "we need things to do", "there is no content" .. Yet players are able to bring high tier ores to market an-mass and still make money. How come these transports are not caught? I can tell you why as we know exactly how to not get caught (so no, I won't tell you).
And here you are obviously entirely correct. The game is in early Alpha and too many are already screaming for stull which will not be available in any polished form for indeed another two years or so. Problem today is that a dev can post disclaimers all they want, people will just ignore them and expect a polished experience.
Your prior points though, will not benefit the game if they were considered or implemented. There must be the ability to play and enjoy the game without ever having to engage in PVP combat. If FB would turn the game into a PVP combat game it would not have a chance and join the ranks of the many other MMO sandbox games which saw devs try the same and fail.. hard.
The point you're replying to stated that there wasn't any compelling incentives to leave the safe zone. The fact is stripming the safe zone is orders of magnitude more profitable than any rare ore further out in the belt of any variety. That doesn't even include the risk involved in being in the pvp zone to acquire it, that's just the raw $/hour math that I'm shocked you haven't done. One person comes in with 300 kutonium and that will saturate the market for weeks. How have you refuted that there is any real incentive to leave the safe zone aside from some handwaving and assertions? Where is your math?
So, you personally have zero interest in PvP or much risk/reward. Your view is obviously very tinted by that. That's fine. Since you seem to love to tell people in this post and so many others that they don't understand things, here's what you don't seem to understand: without reward for risk, no one will risk anything. The risk-for-reward idea is fundamental to game design for a reason. That doesn't mean everything "of value" as you say has to be in a PvP zone, but if, on average, the most valuable things aren't in a PvP zone and risky to get, there is no incentive for anyone to ever leave a safe zone. If you don't want to participate in that, that's fine -- just like the reality is right now, you can mine the safe zone in safety and pay for pvp-zone ore with credits.
No one is saying living in PvP space should be a requirement or that anyone should be forced to PvP. It's so incredibly tiring to see you take these things out of context and fly off the handle when anyone talks about PvP in any post. PvP is not the center of the game, but it should be just as integral as a purely pacifist playstyle like you want. In order for organic PvP to exist, there has to be a risk/reward function that makes sense, period.
No one wants this to be an action RPG or FPS. We don't want arenas, matchmaking, or cheap thrills. We want organic PvP and reasons for conflict to exist in a sandbox world where choices matter and there is a sense of persistence and a evolving world. We want to exist with PvE'rs, miners, haulers, designers, everyone as part of a community that each does their own part for some larger effort. It seems that you, on the other hand, would absolutely love it if the entire universe was covered in an even larger safe zone and PvP was just not a thing at all.
Players bring high tier ores to market and make money? You mean, they spend ~8 hours round trip for Karnite that sells for essentially the same as Chardoium that is 20 minutes away and even in the safe zone? How are they making all this money when there is essentially zero demand or liquidity for these higher tier ores? Please do the math and stop fantasizing.
Transports are not getting caught because 99% of players know there is no value outside the safezone, so most have given up venturing out there to mine, explore, or pirate. There are 100x more miners mining the safezone than non-safezone. There are no ships to pirate. Pirates that still try are hamstrung by trying to spot targets in a MASSIVE area with nothing more than their eyeballs in a dusty, cloudy belt while dodge asteroids. Maybe that has more to do with it than your ideas on clever vectors of approach?
"The ability to play and enjoy the game without ever having to engage in PvP combat". That can mean a lot of different things to different people. It sounds like to you, that means easy access to 100% of resources. That also sounds like it completely removes motivations for conflict or PvP altogether, which is also something you don't mind. Why can you not play and enjoy the game in a way that supports PvP gameplay styles as well? Why can you not accept that there should be motivation to leave safe zones for people that want to, and you can choose to pay credits for the ore you are choosing to not risk your ships over?
So, you personally have zero interest in PvP or much risk/reward. Your view is obviously very tinted by that. That's fine. Since you seem to love to tell people in this post and so many others that they don't understand things, here's what you don't seem to understand: without reward for risk, no one will risk anything. The risk-for-reward idea is fundamental to game design for a reason. That doesn't mean everything "of value" as you say has to be in a PvP zone, but if, on average, the most valuable things aren't in a PvP zone and risky to get, there is no incentive for anyone to ever leave a safe zone. If you don't want to participate in that, that's fine -- just like the reality is right now, you can mine the safe zone in safety and pay for pvp-zone ore with credits.
No one is saying living in PvP space should be a requirement or that anyone should be forced to PvP. It's so incredibly tiring to see you take these things out of context and fly off the handle when anyone talks about PvP in any post. PvP is not the center of the game, but it should be just as integral as a purely pacifist playstyle like you want. In order for organic PvP to exist, there has to be a risk/reward function that makes sense, period.
No one wants this to be an action RPG or FPS. We don't want arenas, matchmaking, or cheap thrills. We want organic PvP and reasons for conflict to exist in a sandbox world where choices matter and there is a sense of persistence and a evolving world. We want to exist with PvE'rs, miners, haulers, designers, everyone as part of a community that each does their own part for some larger effort. It seems that you, on the other hand, would absolutely love it if the entire universe was covered in an even larger safe zone and PvP was just not a thing at all.
Players bring high tier ores to market and make money? You mean, they spend ~8 hours round trip for Karnite that sells for essentially the same as Chardoium that is 20 minutes away and even in the safe zone? How are they making all this money when there is essentially zero demand or liquidity for these higher tier ores? Please do the math and stop fantasizing.
Transports are not getting caught because 99% of players know there is no value outside the safezone, so most have given up venturing out there to mine, explore, or pirate. There are 100x more miners mining the safezone than non-safezone. There are no ships to pirate. Pirates that still try are hamstrung by trying to spot targets in a MASSIVE area with nothing more than their eyeballs in a dusty, cloudy belt while dodge asteroids. Maybe that has more to do with it than your ideas on clever vectors of approach?
"The ability to play and enjoy the game without ever having to engage in PvP combat". That can mean a lot of different things to different people. It sounds like to you, that means easy access to 100% of resources. That also sounds like it completely removes motivations for conflict or PvP altogether, which is also something you don't mind. Why can you not play and enjoy the game in a way that supports PvP gameplay styles as well? Why can you not accept that there should be motivation to leave safe zones for people that want to, and you can choose to pay credits for the ore you are choosing to not risk your ships over?
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2021
- Messages
- 102
Math for what? I make trips into the belt and now to the moon frequently, have yet to encounter any sort of "resistance" and I know many who do the same. Some ores are used on projects, some is stockpiled or sold.
I'd love for higher tier ores to become more valuable as I have so much stock by now, I will be set for quite some time, probably until the next wipe. I have massive stockpiles as I know when to sit on stuff and wait unlike many who just undercut everyone by a cent to get a sale.
For me, that all adds up and last I check adding stuff up is math .. so there
True and says who. Right now, the reward of getting high tier ore has virtually no risk. That is not due to the design of the game, it is because most "pirates" hang around the usual places, looking for easy kills as actually teaming up, collecting intel, and striking at the big transports seems to not be a consideration.
SB suffers from the same issue Dual Universe has, an MMO without actual PVE content. No "dungeons", no sites which would drop loot that finds its use in other parts of the game. There is no reason for many to leave the safe zone, not because of resources but because of an absence of content they would enjoy. Now there is some signals that this may change eventually but not enough is known for me to say anything about that.
It may surprise you but there is no argument here really. The ease with which I can get whatever I want from outside the safe zone is numbing. I'd love to see interesting and challenging content anywhere that I can interact with but for me PVP combat is not one of those things. While I understand for many it is, but for me it just holds no value at all and besides that, I suck at it and have no interest to learn. I fly with some friends in fleets in EVE sometime, but I more enjoy seeing their excitement and appreciate the strategic thinking and reasoning some display but the content itself is very meh for me. I do like the challenge of getting to and running PVE content which offers me appropriate reward for the risk I take by getting there, but if I get caught by another player, then so be it.
Yes, and that is how it should be
That should be "prefer, not "want", But otherwise we agree, and I never said PVP does not have its place like any other gameplay style, in fact I make the effort to ensure I make that point but it seems that is conveniently ignored most of the time. Again, there is no argument here and it feels like you are either misunderstanding my position or trying to spin it into something it is not.
I can agree that Karnite is not very valuable for the effort needed to bring it in. But that is just one ore. And if you'd argue that once they get around to it, FB should rebalance recipes to better meet the effort then I'd agree. I'm not even selling my stockpile right now as it's not worth it.
Also Karnite is far less than an 8 hours round trip to find and bring back.
Where's the data showing this to be the case? You’re making some wild assumptions here based on your thoughts, seems like you are talking straight into a mirror when you put this on me ..
Why should I provide you content by engaging in activities I have no interest in? I'd say come and find me, you won't get a fight out of it but might just get a kill. And here in lies the problem, you seem to be looking for your content from those who have no interest in what you look for. How about you redirect your efforts towards those who do? Unless you manage to find me and engage me in game, I am not here to be your content and never will be.
I'd love for higher tier ores to become more valuable as I have so much stock by now, I will be set for quite some time, probably until the next wipe. I have massive stockpiles as I know when to sit on stuff and wait unlike many who just undercut everyone by a cent to get a sale.
For me, that all adds up and last I check adding stuff up is math .. so there
True and says who. Right now, the reward of getting high tier ore has virtually no risk. That is not due to the design of the game, it is because most "pirates" hang around the usual places, looking for easy kills as actually teaming up, collecting intel, and striking at the big transports seems to not be a consideration.
SB suffers from the same issue Dual Universe has, an MMO without actual PVE content. No "dungeons", no sites which would drop loot that finds its use in other parts of the game. There is no reason for many to leave the safe zone, not because of resources but because of an absence of content they would enjoy. Now there is some signals that this may change eventually but not enough is known for me to say anything about that.
It may surprise you but there is no argument here really. The ease with which I can get whatever I want from outside the safe zone is numbing. I'd love to see interesting and challenging content anywhere that I can interact with but for me PVP combat is not one of those things. While I understand for many it is, but for me it just holds no value at all and besides that, I suck at it and have no interest to learn. I fly with some friends in fleets in EVE sometime, but I more enjoy seeing their excitement and appreciate the strategic thinking and reasoning some display but the content itself is very meh for me. I do like the challenge of getting to and running PVE content which offers me appropriate reward for the risk I take by getting there, but if I get caught by another player, then so be it.
Yes, and that is how it should be
That should be "prefer, not "want", But otherwise we agree, and I never said PVP does not have its place like any other gameplay style, in fact I make the effort to ensure I make that point but it seems that is conveniently ignored most of the time. Again, there is no argument here and it feels like you are either misunderstanding my position or trying to spin it into something it is not.
I can agree that Karnite is not very valuable for the effort needed to bring it in. But that is just one ore. And if you'd argue that once they get around to it, FB should rebalance recipes to better meet the effort then I'd agree. I'm not even selling my stockpile right now as it's not worth it.
Also Karnite is far less than an 8 hours round trip to find and bring back.
Where's the data showing this to be the case? You’re making some wild assumptions here based on your thoughts, seems like you are talking straight into a mirror when you put this on me ..
Why should I provide you content by engaging in activities I have no interest in? I'd say come and find me, you won't get a fight out of it but might just get a kill. And here in lies the problem, you seem to be looking for your content from those who have no interest in what you look for. How about you redirect your efforts towards those who do? Unless you manage to find me and engage me in game, I am not here to be your content and never will be.
Right now its very easy to collect rare ore with very little risk. With auto avoidance no secret is required. Once you get past 150kms or so, the odds of encountering anyone drop off to near entirety if your willing to brave the deep field collision risk.
Since Karanite Crystals have been nerfed from the Power Pack crafting ingredients and it is the most abundant rare resource in the deep field (800-900kms) it's value has been reduced to that of charodium (safe zone available mat). While there is Kutonium in that zone it is hard to efficiently mine without the use of large en masse mining rig so most will not profit from that resource with smaller ships.
For me the only reason i'm going to deep field now are to work on station with cargo loads of charodium and volkarium. It takes me less time to fill charodium in safe zone as it is easy to distinguish (white casing) while karanite shares its shell with bastium in the deep field. I will carry a load of karanite back to origin out of incidence not convenience or profit.
Since Karanite Crystals have been nerfed from the Power Pack crafting ingredients and it is the most abundant rare resource in the deep field (800-900kms) it's value has been reduced to that of charodium (safe zone available mat). While there is Kutonium in that zone it is hard to efficiently mine without the use of large en masse mining rig so most will not profit from that resource with smaller ships.
For me the only reason i'm going to deep field now are to work on station with cargo loads of charodium and volkarium. It takes me less time to fill charodium in safe zone as it is easy to distinguish (white casing) while karanite shares its shell with bastium in the deep field. I will carry a load of karanite back to origin out of incidence not convenience or profit.
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once again, i wish they would implement radiation tech or something to fill in this hole. it would make a radical difference. but, the devs are saying absolutely nothing about it. @LauriFB, if you dont mind commenting, why has the radiation tech been pushed so far behind, especially with siege mechanics coming soon?
That's just wrong, see https://forum.starbasegame.com/threads/are-we-getting-any-toold-to-finding-other-players.2557/. It's correct however, that there are other features with higher priority.
They are worried that the PVE community would faint. JK
JK
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- Joined
- Jan 29, 2021
- Messages
- 17
Well, we killed/robbed yesterday 7 kk worth [ITC} plasma hauler, using... lets say, more refined means to achieve it.
There is 2 main problems currently with pro piracy:
1) No ammount of intel can help you against ship moving 150 m/s -- its not DU where you can have all kind of fancy tools to do max speed intercepting. So even if we have some hints on departing targets, very fast ships often beyond reach.
2) There is also issue of huge bulk per loot value (ore). Only several most expensive types basicly worth any serious effort to steal them (and even this is usualy quite clumsy). We need to have transit of more concentated wealth, industial goods, rare "treasures" to have any real sense with risk/reward stakes, piracy, anti-piracy and wider connected economy.
There is 2 main problems currently with pro piracy:
1) No ammount of intel can help you against ship moving 150 m/s -- its not DU where you can have all kind of fancy tools to do max speed intercepting. So even if we have some hints on departing targets, very fast ships often beyond reach.
2) There is also issue of huge bulk per loot value (ore). Only several most expensive types basicly worth any serious effort to steal them (and even this is usualy quite clumsy). We need to have transit of more concentated wealth, industial goods, rare "treasures" to have any real sense with risk/reward stakes, piracy, anti-piracy and wider connected economy.
I hear ya there. There are a lot of benefits to developing thick skin. Games are a good place to practice suffering loss and learning to overcome. If one can learn to take in stride the concept of losing valued assets prior to putting them out at risk, a lot of drama could be avoided in games like SB that will be relying on the excitement of combat interaction to fuel the widespread appeal of the game.
The best simulations we as humans create produce adrenaline.
When a game is able to literally trigger adrenaline during combat is an indicator that your mind is recognizing a significant risk is at play. In order to trigger a fight or flight reaction our brains produce that adrenaline in order to help quickly calculate the best course of action to avoid and mitigate loss. Followed by adrenaline (particularly dependent upon the outcome), as a result of an near immediate post-adrenal drop in blood sugar, it can be very easy to cause an emotional reaction in the affected individual.
I make the suggestion to anyone playing a game as time resource intensive as SB, or other PVP enabled simulations, to take control of the concept of loss. Be emotionally prepared for it, because it is a very real concept in this game. If our player population, to a high degree, are lacking in this preparedness then tirades of emotional outbursts are bound for us all.
Edit additonally - I would recommend to anyone who is practicing piracy as a trade to take into consideration the emotional factors at play and try to be respectful in dealing with the aftermath interactions. I see many that do try , but many others who could care less about the individuals affected.
PS- I know of a couple different 100+ member tribes in Ark that were very excited about Starbase and were coordinating to play here together. Some were playing and already left due to the difficulty they met when providing PVP interaction (enflammed) and then the reduction in potential avenues for it. I know that this is planned for remedy. I just want to reinforce my reasoning for concern on this issue is genuine. That i personally can count a very large number of potential sales that SB has missed in direct correlation to the directives implemented that reduce the opportunities for PVP. I'm sure they have measured the logistics on these matters. Keeping my fingers crossed.
The best simulations we as humans create produce adrenaline.
When a game is able to literally trigger adrenaline during combat is an indicator that your mind is recognizing a significant risk is at play. In order to trigger a fight or flight reaction our brains produce that adrenaline in order to help quickly calculate the best course of action to avoid and mitigate loss. Followed by adrenaline (particularly dependent upon the outcome), as a result of an near immediate post-adrenal drop in blood sugar, it can be very easy to cause an emotional reaction in the affected individual.
I make the suggestion to anyone playing a game as time resource intensive as SB, or other PVP enabled simulations, to take control of the concept of loss. Be emotionally prepared for it, because it is a very real concept in this game. If our player population, to a high degree, are lacking in this preparedness then tirades of emotional outbursts are bound for us all.
Edit additonally - I would recommend to anyone who is practicing piracy as a trade to take into consideration the emotional factors at play and try to be respectful in dealing with the aftermath interactions. I see many that do try , but many others who could care less about the individuals affected.
PS- I know of a couple different 100+ member tribes in Ark that were very excited about Starbase and were coordinating to play here together. Some were playing and already left due to the difficulty they met when providing PVP interaction (enflammed) and then the reduction in potential avenues for it. I know that this is planned for remedy. I just want to reinforce my reasoning for concern on this issue is genuine. That i personally can count a very large number of potential sales that SB has missed in direct correlation to the directives implemented that reduce the opportunities for PVP. I'm sure they have measured the logistics on these matters. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Gotta say that I'm not currently liking how there's really no reason to leave the SZ. I thought for sure SB would have this right where taking risk would come with better reward. Unfortunately I was wrong and right now there's really no point in risking your ship. Doubt this is a good path for the game.
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The devs are currently in the progress of (aside from bug fixing) implementing some core technology like moon mining, capital ships and station siege. This is core technology which we want the devs to have available, so it can be used in further and faster game design decisions. Noone arguees against further game decisions and tuning being absolutely required, some in favor of pve, many in favor of pvp interactions, be they of friendly or destructive nature.
It just takes time. Much time. Yes, the steam chart numbers will take a hit, but it is required. And we all hope the players will come back, I certainly won't stop advertising the game, with a fair disclaimer that it's early access .
It just takes time. Much time. Yes, the steam chart numbers will take a hit, but it is required. And we all hope the players will come back, I certainly won't stop advertising the game, with a fair disclaimer that it's early access
.