The downfall of Starbase

Shulace

Well-known endo
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
53
#61
PvP is definitely a focus. However, its a complex setup in SB. Which I find to be awesome. We are missing many tools. Not just for PvP players, but the PvE as well. Which is fine. Thats the stage we're at.

Also, its clear to me, that this is supposed to have a symbiotic relationship between PvP and PvE players. It doesn't always have to be a fight. It never had to be to begin with.
The thing is, PVP in MMOs is only fair if you're there at the start, other than that it just becomes another barrier to draw in new players once the initial launch numbers fall off, this has always been the case for decades so far. The MMO eventually just dies sooner than later if it tries to push PVP in a PVE MMO.

This video kind of sums up exactly how I feel on the matter: Why I hate Hardcore PVP MMO's by Josh Strife Heyes on YouTube.
 

Venombrew

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
369
#62
@Cavilier210 also i think a lot of people forget in games like this, im referring to the survival sandbox/craft, that the story is written and told by us the players. In SB we will be lucky enough to have 2 dedicated dev factions that will bring in scripted events, but outside that, Wild West Baby! I think that is the underlining core to why people gravitate to this style of game. Were not playing another person's story were playing our own. And the beauty of it is, every player is playing their own part in everyone's story including their own. Large enough game some people may never be known, but doesn't mean you ever stop from trying to become known.

Don't get me wrong im a lore hound, i love a good story, infact a good story in my eyes can save a shitty game. BUT i also like to be the star of my own story as well from time to time ;)
 

Cavilier210

Master endo
Joined
Nov 12, 2019
Messages
576
#63
The thing is, PVP in MMOs is only fair if you're there at the start, other than that it just becomes another barrier to draw in new players once the initial launch numbers fall off, this has always been the case for decades so far. The MMO eventually just dies sooner than later if it tries to push PVP in a PVE MMO.

This video kind of sums up exactly how I feel on the matter: Why I hate Hardcore PVP MMO's by Josh Strife Heyes on YouTube.
Did you notice how every one of those hardcore PvP games you mentioned has a tiered gear system to act as gatekeeper. As well as pay to win setups. I almost think PvP isn't the problem, but the game systems that are used to promote it. Weird!

@Venombrew For sure. Thats exactly why I'm here. The ability to make the story, rather than follow along while doing fetch quests, or kill X number of random baddies. Instead I get to create and foster my own alliances and adversaries. Do propaganda, design ships, develop tactics, and every so often get mentioned by the community for my audacity. Thats why I like these sorts of games. And that seems to be the goal with FB here. They want us to write the story, while they give new players a safe place to find their place.

I hope everyone can take part in epic fights and rivalries. Some here to gloat and saber rattle. It'll be great. Meanwhile, the game offers commercial opportunities of design, programming, and resource gathering for those who don't like to fight. As well as giving those who like to fight a purpose in protecting them.
 

Shulace

Well-known endo
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
53
#65
Did you notice how every one of those hardcore PvP games you mentioned has a tiered gear system to act as gatekeeper. As well as pay to win setups. I almost think PvP isn't the problem, but the game systems that are used to promote it. Weird!

@Venombrew For sure. Thats exactly why I'm here. The ability to make the story, rather than follow along while doing fetch quests, or kill X number of random baddies. Instead I get to create and foster my own alliances and adversaries. Do propaganda, design ships, develop tactics, and every so often get mentioned by the community for my audacity. Thats why I like these sorts of games. And that seems to be the goal with FB here. They want us to write the story, while they give new players a safe place to find their place.

I hope everyone can take part in epic fights and rivalries. Some here to gloat and saber rattle. It'll be great. Meanwhile, the game offers commercial opportunities of design, programming, and resource gathering for those who don't like to fight. As well as giving those who like to fight a purpose in protecting them.
There are tiered parts in SB, don't forget that as well as complete freedom on how much guns/people you have. Don't cherry pick facts. PVP in SB will not truly be competitive, it will be who has the most numbers and manned guns.

And the beauty of it is, every player is playing their own part in everyone's story including their own. Large enough game some people may never be known, but doesn't mean you ever stop from trying to become known.
I don't wanna rain on your parades but nobody is gong to know who you are in this game, the social aspects/interactions/loops is not that fleshed out yet. If you want fame and glory in a spaceship game the only place where that can happen is Eve unfortunately. These are just delusions of grandeur right now. It's almost like reading a comment in the Star Citizen forum.
 

Shulace

Well-known endo
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
53
#69
Thats awful...

Especially since you don't appear to actually like MMO mechanics.
Showing off and selling ship builds is very MMO to me, not sure what you on about.

I play/played ALOT of MMOs

I was one of the best warriors/sorcerer in TERA, started to get uber grindy and now its dying.
I play FF14, Healer/Tank/DPS, and all DoL/DoH classes to max lvl.
Warframe is kind of an MMO sort of and I'm max MR in that.
I have BILLIONS in assets, especially now since supercaps and caps have tripled in price in Eve.
I also have billions in assets in Elite Dangerous as well. My Inara

OH lets not forget Dual Universe, I made and sold ships in that. Here are some of my builds: DU Creator Shulace
SB will walk the way of DU if it does try to go hardcore PVP in a spaceship building game, though the devs seem to be keenly aware of this.
Also Black Desert, I have a few billion in silver in that but I play mainly for the PVE aspects and the story/combat. I have about 7 lvl 54-60 characters in in that.

I usually specifically play MMOs and I think I have accomplished a bit more than average as an MMO player.

I'm curious to learn what "MMO mechanics" you are talking about though. Teach me sensei.
 
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Venombrew

Master endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
369
#70
I don't wanna rain on your parades but nobody is gong to know who you are in this game, the social aspects/interactions/loops is not that fleshed out yet. If you want fame and glory in a spaceship game the only place where that can happen is Eve unfortunately. These are just delusions of grandeur right now. It's almost like reading a comment in the Star Citizen forum.
are you kidding me? are you really trying to tell me that players don't inspire to stand out amongst the rest in space mmos? PS2, Bazino comes to mind right away, Nivx is another, Shrimpehx. TitanF2 i think of VGSpeedpro, RageKittenX, Suddi. These are just off the top of my head. If your that into MMOs i can't believe you would say that. Also Eve can't be even compared to a game like this, Eve is more of push button tactical game, i know i play it and its quite fucking boring compared to real interaction of other games.

As for Starbase do you really think big names won't exist amongst the shipbuilders, yolo workers, and military factions? Best ship designer will have no problem finding work when everyone looks to them for the best ship, same with yolo and military style players. If anything this game is to cater to the egos of those that excell.
I usually specifically play MMOs and I think I have accomplished a bit more than average as an MMO player.
but the names you dropped outside of FF14 and WF are pay2win games, achievements and feats that don't mean shit. In Eve, players spend about 8 months worth of sub in real money on Plex to get big exspensive ships and target and prey on smaller ships with blinged, usually because of a lack of skill. DU is no different in the pay2win cause hell you buy kits to basically robot it out. BDO is not as bad cause you have to have tons of cash but still exists, and its cash mule predecessor AA. Just like Elite Dangerous isn't pay to win right? with its unlimited pay to win resources. Even Tera is pay2win on the pve side.

SB will walk the way of DU if it does try to go hardcore PVP in a spaceship building game, though the devs seem to be keenly aware of this.
won't be cause SB has no pay2win features, we be lucky to see a cosmetic shop. about the only thing, at least my knowlede, DU hasn't done is start selling skill points.
 
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Shulace

Well-known endo
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Messages
53
#71
are you kidding me? are you really trying to tell me that players don't inspire to stand out amongst the rest in space mmos? PS2, Bazino comes to mind right away, Nivx is another, Shrimpehx. TitanF2 i think of VGSpeedpro, RageKittenX, Suddi. These are just off the top of my head. If your that into MMOs i can't believe you would say that. Also Eve can't be even compared to a game like this, Eve is more of push button tactical game, i know i play it and its quite fucking boring compared to real interaction of other games.

As for Starbase do you really think big names won't exist amongst the shipbuilders, yolo workers, and military factions? Best ship designer will have no problem finding work when everyone looks to them for the best ship, same with yolo and military style players. If anything this game is to cater to the egos of those that excell.
We talking about space MMOs or FPS? Eve has many infamous people that do crazy things, people that hunt priceless alliance ships and titans to kill, people that steal entire outposts during unanchoring, but they aren't very well known as much as Mittani who made an empire(that's now burnt down) or Vile Rat the GS diplomat/CSM that died in Benghazi, etc.
Those people made literal news for a "fucking boring" game. I don't particularly like the direction Eve is headed, but I won't deny its legacy.

The platform is not there yet for SB to achieve such acclaim, and will not be for a long time other than the one guy that probably will fly around the whole belt, akin to similar feats in Elite Dangerous, like that one time someone got stuck in the middle of nowhere and had to get rescued, or the guy that flew across the whole galaxy etc. No one will know of you because of PVP in SB.

The best builders are obviously going to be famous in a spaceship building game, everyone that bought/built ships in DU knew of Captain. I don't know of a single "famous" PVP player in that game.


but the names you dropped outside of FF14 and WF are pay2win games, achievements and feats that don't mean shit. In Eve, players spend about 8 months worth of sub in real money on Plex to get big exspensive ships and target and prey on smaller ships with blinged, usually because of a lack of skill. DU is no different in the pay2win cause hell you buy kits to basically robot it out.
Those game I played when they fist launched in their prime before they went downhill with pay to win.

BDO is P2W garbage but its an MMO, and its still successful unfortunately.

EVE takes skill, you can spend your entire life savings in it and you still won't win against a good PVP player 1v1. Why? because ships/modules are balanced and the devs can control that easily. I once baited 2 sabres in a t1 logi cruiser(exequror) and killed them both solo. I was alliance famous for a week for this lol.

I have no idea what you meant about P2W kits in DU, the game died because of out of touch devs, this is honestly the first time I've seen someone talk about bots and P2W in DU lmao.

Just like Elite Dangerous isn't pay to win right? with its unlimited pay to win resources
......What????? The only thing wrong with Elite Dangerous is their devs are getting complacent and releasing trash expansions, I honestly don't know what you are talking about with P2W here.

Even Tera is pay2win on the pve side.
Tera never used to be like that, in its prime(when I played back when it first went F2P) it was a fantastic game. Alas it got P2W and grindy from like 2016-2017 onward.


won't be cause SB has no pay2win features, we be lucky to see a cosmetic shop. about the only thing, at least my knowlede, DU hasn't done is start selling skill points.
DU never had any cash shop/P2W options. DU died because of out of touch devs that effectively killed 2/3 of their game loops for PVE, and guess what, all the PVE players left and the game will probably shut down before year end. What I meant with my statement is that PVE playerbase going to be overwhelming majority in this kind of game, and when you kill of the content for them, they will leave. In MMO, a low playerbase means its going to die. SB is going to have a massive playerbase injection at launch but if they can't keep the content fun, it will bleed out. Shipbuilding/mining/logistics/basebuilding/industry/trading/balanced PVP(hard to do in this game with so much ship building freedom/lots of exploit opportunity) and limited griefing is going to be the key loops to keep players playing.
 

Geronimo553

Well-known endo
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
61
#73
I really hope SB launches successfully and keeps flying. We have a lot of SLI org members that are talking about joining in together into SB and every single one of them are refugees from Dual Universe.
Yeah DU was a real waste. When the devs started NDAing everything and not keeping promises I noped out of there real quick in 2019. Just before they let the "bronze" tier access play. Its sad it took people so much longer to realize it was a waste of time and Empyrion already did everything better. Really hoping SB holds out, so far the devs have great communication, but threads like this really do highlight a negative path they are following. Even if some people refuse to see it. The fun thing about game development is, its better to change things now instead of later. As later things are more concreted in unable to change.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
10
#74
Steam => Starbase description:



===multi crew===
multi crew in starbase, there is no multi crew in starbase, starbase has shown its currently not possible at all, in general the game will be played using a ship for each person.

After almost a year of Closed Alpha we finally have to ability to stay on another person their ship, before we would almost always get yeeted.

However looking at upcoming updates the only thing being added are Tri-pods, however I do not consider this to be multi crew. it means your players will be sitting afk doing nothing on your ship untill there is something to shoot, as previously stated if you ship is being max speed I doubt you will see any pvp in general.

in general this all comes down to engine issues with hosting issues. the person hosting the ship can do anything with the ship, however the people whom aren't the host in general can't do anything.
I agree, there is no multi crew in starbase
 
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Huursa

Well-known endo
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
53
#77
The best ship builders ar those who fight the most not those who build the most cuz ppl who fight 24/7 see what works in battle versus someone who sits on their ass all day and "designs" ships.
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
1
#80
I was intrigued by the game and wanted to checkout how it actually was but comments like these?
Whining about everything "wrong" with closed alpha game?

Priceless.
That along with the fact that no one bothered actually directly addressing the flaws pointed out seems very worrying. The game has had its release date pushed back by a month yet the same complaints are still being mirrored by more recent forum posts has got my hopes down for this game. Maybe the dev team can address all this stuff in a month's time but it's looking more and more like they'll have to push the release back further, fundamental aspects like pvp not being fully developed before the release is pretty telling of the state of the game.
 
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