Space mines

[PopeUrban]

Torps are not autonomously seeking. They are manually laser guided.

Then we're back to the rockets probably being the most effective platform.

In fact, I mean based on the decay couldn't you just set a bunch of warheads to proximity trigger and dump them in an area? We know that arming a warhead can be done separately from other performance factors. In theory you could just develop a mine layer by giving it an extremely low velocity, setting the warhead to proximity and firing it right? Obviously there's some form of launcher based safety available on the proximity warheads that prevents them from assessing their own launcher as a valid object and exploding on launch. If the lifetime of a missile is based upon its fuel consumption and its barely consuming any fuel these could last for minutes at a time, right?

Those munitions wouldn't be lasting as I assume they've eventually decay or simply run out of fuel and explode in the case of slow moving ones, but as a short term or defensive solution it seems pretty trivial to implement. Just need a ship with a bunch of missile launchers at rear angles. You could load the launchers as a one-off button, or build a robot arm auto-reload system.

In theory this would allow a ship built for this purpose to turn on "minelayer mode" and just move foreward on a single vector and litter the space around it with these short duration proximity mines.

Commute this system to an automatically triggered YOLOL netowork, where if one of your minelaying devices detects a target, it sends a signal to the others to also trigger and you could have a pretty interesting on-demand and reasonably reusable minefield using a slow automated "chair sitter" drone to fly around and restock the missiles, or just by manually restocking the missiles.

 

[einar4050]

I don't think leaving a bunch of mines somewhere would work since it would probably be deleted as all other debris does to reduce lag. The devs have said that a cleanup system will be a thing to remove debris. So you would have to somehow avoid having ur mines/missiles deleted first.

 

[PopeUrban]

I don't think leaving a bunch of mines somewhere would work since it would probably be deleted as all other debris does to reduce lag. The devs have said that a cleanup system will be a thing to remove debris. So you would have to somehow avoid having ur mines/missiles deleted first.

Those munitions wouldn't be lasting as I assume they've eventually decay or simply run out of fuel and explode in the case of slow moving ones, but as a short term or defensive solution it seems pretty trivial to implement. Just need a ship with a bunch of missile launchers at rear angles. You could load the launchers as a one-off button, or build a robot arm auto-reload system.

Bold and underline added for emphasis.

 

[Lionard Freezer]

With debris is meant, all the stuff thats flying off destroied parts. I dont think they mean actuall parts that have been placed in the world, since they allready unload the space that isnt near a player (think of Minecraft as an example) to reduce the lag.

 

[Burnside]

Conceit 1: mines in space are just proximity-launched weapons.
Conceit 2: space is big enough that even a "large" mine will be hard to spot.
Conceit 3: mines are deployed in large fields of multiple units to deter ships from entering, not to make surprise attacks, individual "trap" mines are not only a misconception, but practically useless

Caveat: nautical mines were contact based because of the nature of using explosives in water, the difficulty of seeing those submerged mines from above the waterline and the impracticality of laying "torpedo turrets" because of a lack of automation and that's not how real life works. Laying a missile-launch minefield in a game is way easier even if you don't have self-aiming FoFID turrets.

Design: a small battery-powered missile launcher that uses YOLOL code and rangefinders to launch warheads at anything it sees
-YOLOL core: code consists of multiple lines of IF rangefinder xa detects an object within y meters, trigger missile launcher xa, most of this can actually be done straight through the rangefinder device field outputting detection switches into missile launcher activations, YOLOL chips are only necessary if you don't want to fire off all your missiles at once
*Optional: larger mines can mount multiple missile launchers to fire more warheads or deploy a ship-catching "spread" by angling each launcher in the directional "batteries" slightly offsides of each other
-rangefinders: one for each direction you want to fire missiles in
-missile launchers: one for each direction to want the mine to guard, so a basic mine would have six launchers, any weapon can work, but missiles have that natural "oh shit" deterrence factor that can't be ignored by fleets
-battery: size depends on how much power the system's use and how often you want to send staff out to maintain the mines, powerplants and solar panels are options as well

Deployed as a minefield, each mine's blind spots are more or less compensated for by the sheer scale of the field, indeed, the blind spots allow you to even create the minefield to begin with. When setting the launch-factor of your mines it can vary from one missile per RF detection to blowing a whole pod at the first signal. In any case an interloper will be able to see the whole field if they aren't bumbling around, but targeting individual mines is difficult, slow work, and clearing a path so wide that the mines on the top, bottom, and sides of the path can't target anything in the middle requires literal kilometers of clearing work to be done (as it should, since you spent several orders of a magnitude in the same effort creating and then laying those mines).

If you want to dump bombs out the back of your ship and let the enemy fly into them in the middle of a battle I highly suggest you armor the inside of your mine bay because there will be enemy rounds flying into it.

 

[Phylast]

I hope creating minefields becomes more difficult for any reason than what it seems to be currently. Or at least delay the ability for minefields to be a thing until the game has developed it's own legs and presence. Anything that deters people from playing the game is a slippery slope.

 

[TheEmperor1237]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but the only practical use I see in deploying minefields would be in choke points that an enemy has to travel through. Therein lies the problem though... It's space... you can literally fly in infinite directions to circumnavigate a mine. The only places I see them being useful is maybe trapping a warp gate or some other jump-point which would force players into a certain predetermined location. But then again, just like real world use of mines, innocent people not involved in the conflict can suffer from these deployments. What if a merchant or passenger ship flies in suddenly?

 

[PopeUrban]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but the only practical use I see in deploying minefields would be in choke points that an enemy has to travel through. Therein lies the problem though... It's space... you can literally fly in infinite directions to circumnavigate a mine. The only places I see them being useful is maybe trapping a warp gate or some other jump-point which would force players into a certain predetermined location. But then again, just like real world use of mines, innocent people not involved in the conflict can suffer from these deployments. What if a merchant or passenger ship flies in suddenly?

This is why mines are generally used to defend a static position from enemy attacks. If your minefield is set up to protect your harvesting group in the middle of it and people fly around it, the mines have done their job.

The purpose of mines, in both video games and real life is primarily to act as a deterrant. People avoiding minefields is the entire point of having a minefield. Mines are concealed so that anyone attempting to cross the field can't do so quickly or efficiently, and in many cases so the enemy can't even be sure of the limits of the field.

If you're flying through an asteroid field and hit a passive device like these mines, you miguth think "okay weird" and move on. When you hit the second one you're going to start questioning how many of these there are and where they are. This information asymmetry is key to the deployment of mines in warfare. You don't know how far right or left you need to go to escape the field, and you don't know how deep it is. The only thing you know for certain is that going back the way you came is the only guaranteed safe path, and anything else risks further explosions.

That second mine could be the end of the field and flying forward could be totally safe. That second mine could represent the tip of an iceberg of mines that cover the entire field. The point is that you don't know and that your options are either to leave or waste a lot of time remote detonating or defusing mines.

In the case of visible mines the same tactical principle applies. If you're setting a visible minefield you're doing so explicitly to send a message "do not enter"

If you want to set a trap you don't use a minefield. You use a gun or a remotely detonated explosive.

The other type of device covered in this discussion is the "battle mine" which is really less of a mine and more of a unique saturation fire weapon. The idea there being in stead of pre-seeding a minefireld to use as a deterrent you have the ability to litter a given battlespace with stationary proximity munitions on demand in a fire-and-forget system to simply sow chaos for your enemies and give you a greater measure of control over the engagement.

 

[Chrome]

Minefields are tricky in space because its so damn big! That extra dimention is a pain lol...
I guess the "best" way would be to have your mines have thier own propultion and sensors to fly them towards a target... maybe even tractor beams to draw them in even more so that last little enevitable bit...

 

[Burnside]

I still think you're all imagining mines too literally, the proximity missile launcher does, in space, what sea mines do in water.

 

[Chrome]

I still think you're all imagining mines too literally, the proximity missile launcher does, in space, what sea mines do in water.

Sounds like a turret to me... i think of a mine as a larger explosive that destroys itself on detonation...
Now you can argue which is better but thats what i imagine when someone says minefield.

 

[Burnside]

Yeah, I know, you're all so super-focused on what you think something needs to look like based on a name instead of what role it fills.

 

[Chrome]

Yeah, I know, you're all so super-focused on what you think something needs to look like based on a name instead of what role it fills.

Sounds like your quite adament on your own opinion...
The trick with a "mine" compared to your turreted system is that they "should" be cheaper, easier to produce and hold a much larger payload. Also they cant be tricked into waisting thier munitions and continue to be a threat during their existance...and it doesnt give its self away until its entire ordinance goes off.
*In theory in this unreleased game.

 

[Burnside]

It sounds like your opinion is that mines are an attack system and not a deterrence system- I completely disagree.

 

[Chrome]

It sounds like your opinion is that mines are an attack system and not a deterrence system- I completely disagree.

Area denial, intimidation, interferance, defence, trap... a weapon is what you make it. If you look at something and dont look for tacical possibilities thats a little short sighted.
And its a game, who knows what designs and abilities peeps might come up with, you could get a nasty surprise.

 

[Burnside]

Yeah, I'm just saying, contact explosives in space (i.e. real space like IRL and this game where space is big, really, really big, you don't even understand how big space really is)... aren't... tactical. At all. On top of that the available radius that any method of creating an explosion provides is... absurdly tiny- a bunch of missile launchers pointing in every direction actually give you the thing you want, massive area denial and the option for alpha strike damage. I just don't get why everyone discards the idea for... what're you going to use to make a naval-mine-in-space? an autocannon firing into a propellant tank?

 

[FranklinZ]

It gets even worse (or better?)
If you are 1 km out the area stops being loaded in the server and time freezes.
Which means that your mines will just stay there forever.
Until some unlucky ship came and activated them.

 

[Burnside]

render bubbles are like 5km radius from the ship, 10km diameter- still mines sitting out in the sticks aren't going to be draining their fuel until ships run into them and won't really know they're present until within the 1km detection zone of the outermost mines in a field

 

[FranklinZ]

render bubbles are like 5km radius from the ship, 10km diameter- still mines sitting out in the sticks aren't going to be draining their fuel until ships run into them and won't really know they're present until within the 1km detection zone of the outermost mines in a field

Sounds effective
Not many people will pay attention when not expecting combat.
Even if they did, there is no way to mine-sweep without damaging your ship.

 

[Burnside]

well, the lasercannon and railgun could be fairly effective at disabling mines, but that's the age-old problem of the minefield. It sits there as a passive threat, even when you know it's there you only have two options: avoid or sweep. In either case the field is still doing its job of dissuading passage through the field or forcing the intruder to spend time and resources to mitigate the threat. People keep having this misconception that mines are supposed to be used as direct damage systems to attack intruders, which is only the case in arena shooters and RTS games, the actual strategy for deploying mines is denial or delay, which they are very very good at.